Cruz wants Trump to end his support for ethanol industry

[corbe]

Cruz wants Trump to end his support for ethanol industry
 By Ben Wolfgang - The Washington Times - Wednesday, December 6, 2017

Sen. Ted Cruz will lead a delegation to the White House on Thursday to talk President Trump out of his rock-solid support for the ethanol industry, marking the latest chapter in an ongoing intraparty fight between Republicans over how the administration should handle biofuels.

The meeting, which Mr. Cruz has sought for months, comes just days after the Environmental Protection Agency announced increases in the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), the federal program that requires the blending of ethanol with gasoline, for 2018. Mr. Cruz’s home state of Texas, along with other states closely aligned with the oil and gas industry, opposed the move.

But Mr. Trump had vowed throughout his 2016 campaign to protect the RFS and promote the ethanol industry, and EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt’s decision on the ethanol mandate was seen by biofuels champions in Iowa and elsewhere as a clear signal the president intended to keep his word.

Mr. Cruz’s state of Texas immediately fired back, asking Mr. Pruitt for a waiver from the entire program, arguing it puts their state economy at a disadvantage.

<..snip..>

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/6/ted-cruz-wants-donald-trump-to-end-his-support-for/

[Cripplecreek]

Trump was being "Pragmatic" to win the Iowa caucus yet still lost to Ted Cruz.

Now the usual idiots can chime in with their usual stupidity about Ted Cruz cheating Ben Carson out of his Iowa win.

[corbe]

Trump was being "Pragmatic" to win the Iowa caucus yet still lost to Ted Cruz.

Now the usual idiots can chime in with their usual stupidity about Ted Cruz cheating Ben Carson out of his Iowa win.

    Just because you carry your 1 suit with you everywhere you go @Cripplecreek does not mean all Black politicians do so, Lighten up Frances.

[libertybele]

If Trump were smart he would try to appease one of the few Senators who have been on his side.  Come 2018, Trump may need a friend in the Senate. But, with Trump's personality I don't see him doing anything for Cruz...besides you know that his Dad killed Kennedy.

[Suppressed]

    Just because you carry your 1 suit with you everywhere you go @Cripplecreek does not mean all Black politicians do so, Lighten up Frances.

Carson's tweet of "I'm too incompetent to run my campaign and pack a suitcase, but vote for me for president" was a doozy.

[endicom]

They have to find a way to give the Cruz delegation something without leaving Grassley swinging. An acceptable compromise, for the time being.

[Emjay]

Trump was being "Pragmatic" to win the Iowa caucus yet still lost to Ted Cruz.

Now the usual idiots can chime in with their usual stupidity about Ted Cruz cheating Ben Carson out of his Iowa win.

Some forum member ... I think it was @TomSea got hyperventilated with fury at me because I accused Ben Carson of going home to get a suit.

Well, Ben Carson himself said that was why he went home.

And the very people who vilified Cruz because his staff made an honest mistake totally ignored the fact that Trump had implied that Carson was crazy and a child molester.

Ted Cruz is absolutely right about this and it is not because of Texas oil interests.  It's because it's a huge mistake and always has been to support this ethanol thing.

[Bigun]

If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn!  That's all anyone should need to know!

[Frank Cannon]

If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn!  That's all anyone should need to know!

True, but by government standards that's a win.

[libertybele]

Some forum member ... I think it was @TomSea got hyperventilated with fury at me because I accused Ben Carson of going home to get a suit.

Well, Ben Carson himself said that was why he went home.

And the very people who vilified Cruz because his staff made an honest mistake totally ignored the fact that Trump had implied that Carson was crazy and a child molester.

Ted Cruz is absolutely right about this and it is not because of Texas oil interests.  It's because it's a huge mistake and always has been to support this ethanol thing.

 

[Bigun]

True, but by government standards that's a win.

In that case, government standards are sorely in need of revision!

[endicom]

If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn!  That's all anyone should need to know!

Not really. The same is true of gasoline or electricity. The trick is in the cost factors involved in energy production.

[truth_seeker]

If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn!  That's all anyone should need to know!

That ethanol macro-economic model or algorithm is arranged, using OPM (other peoples' money) funded very indirectly by FedGov.

If you grow corn, you win. If you live in the community of corn growers (state, local etc.) you win.

It is like subsidized solar panels, for Solyndra etc.

If you pay taxes to FedGov you lose.

[Bigun]

That ethanol macro-economic model or algorithm is arranged, using OPM (other peoples' money) funded very indirectly by FedGov.

If you grow corn, you win. If you live in the community of corn growers (state, local etc.) you win.

It is like subsidized solar panels, for Solyndra etc.

If you pay taxes to FedGov you lose.

If you consume ANY food products that use corn as a base you lose due to the price of that base product being higher than it otherwise would be and on and on to infinity! 

Turning corn into a motor fuel is stupid on any basis one cares to look at it unless you are one of those with a vested interest in doing that.

[MajorClay]

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

If you consume ANY food products that use corn as a base you lose due to the price of that base product being higher than it otherwise would be and on and on to infinity! 

Turning corn into a motor fuel is stupid on any basis one cares to look at it unless you are one of those with a vested interest in doing that.

In Econ 101 theory, what you say is true.  However, what actually happened to the price of corn when the substantial ethanol mandate was implemented?

When I was a kid, we used to pay farmers not to grow corn to support the price.  Did they make more money setting aside X acres to not grow corn on, or by growing corn today on those X acres to use as fuel?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

If you grow corn, you win. If you live in the community of corn growers (state, local etc.) you win.

Only as long as the gravy train is operating.  At some point, one runs out of other people's money and the whole pyramid scheme collapses and the enterprise propped up artificially goes 'Pop'.

Look at Spain's and Germany's renewable schemes as prime examples.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

In Econ 101 theory, what you say is true.  However, what actually happened to the price of corn when the substantial ethanol mandate was implemented?

When I was a kid, we used to pay farmers not to grow corn to support the price.  Did they make more money setting aside X acres to not grow corn on, or by growing corn today on those X acres to use as fuel?

Got some real numbers on how much $ was spent to 'prop up prices' not to grow corn vs the $ spent to subsidize the corn industry?

You could be talking about a penny back then vs dollars now.

Another thing: years gone by it was a lot more family farms vs what we now have is large business farming.

[Hoodat]

If ALL inputs are considered, it takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn!  That's all anyone should need to know!

Anyone with a functioning brain, at least.  Sadly, there are too many among us wielding power who do not fall into this category.

The supposed goal of subsidies is to lower the final cost of a product.  With ethanol, this can be done easily by lifting the ban on Brazilian imports.

I am sick and tired of our government picking losers.  Ethanol is a loser.  It causes smog laced with formaldehyde.  Ethanol production results in an increase in oil consumption.  And ethanol wreaks havoc on internal combustion engines.  Our government has no business sticking its nose in the ethanol industry.

[Bigun]

Anyone with a functioning brain, at least.  Sadly, there are too many among us wielding power who do not fall into this category.

The supposed goal of subsidies is to lower the final cost of a product.  With ethanol, this can be done easily by lifting the ban on Brazilian imports.

I am sick and tired of our government picking losers.  Ethanol is a loser.  It causes smog laced with formaldehyde.  Ethanol production results in an increase in oil consumption.  And ethanol wreaks havoc on internal combustion engines.  Our government has no business sticking its nose in the ethanol industry.

@Hoodat

Agreed!  All Counts!  If ethanol producers want to participate in the motor fuel marketplace let them do it on the merits of their products alone! 

[Restored]

"wreaks havoc"

Of course it does

[driftdiver]

Just call it what it is, a farm subsidy.   Just another way to funnel money to the big farming corporations.

[Hoodat]

Just call it what it is, a farm subsidy.   Just another way to funnel money to the big farming corporations.

It is not in the American public's best interest to artificially drive up the price of corn.

[driftdiver]

It is not in the American public's best interest to artificially drive up the price of corn.

Oh I agree but the people in  the midwest getting rich off this will certainly disagree.  Chuck Grassley is one of its biggest proponents.

[Bigun]

Oh I agree but the people in  the midwest getting rich off this will certainly disagree.  Chuck Grassley is one of its biggest proponents.

It's theft!  No different than if you held a gun on someone and took their money!

When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
Frederic Bastiat