Author Topic: Chief Justice John Roberts must be snickering about the new tax bill and his Obamacare decision [beautiful karma]  (Read 1027 times)

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Online 240B

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BPR Wire
Jack Crowe
November 16, 2017


Chief Justice John Roberts’s original 2012 defense of Obamacare was based on his understanding of the individual mandate as a “tax.”


Roberts’s defense of Obamacare derails arguments from numerous Democratic lawmakers, progressive activists and journalists that the inclusion of an individual mandate repeal in a tax reform bill disingenuously conflates two distinct policy areas.


Roberts defended the Obamacare individual mandate on the basis that it falls under the broad congressional power to raise taxes “for the general welfare.”


“The Federal Government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance. Section 5000A is therefore constitutional, because it can reasonably be read as a tax,” Roberts wrote for the court in defense of its 5-4 decision in favor of Obamacare.


Democratic opponents of the most recent Senate tax reform proposal, unveiled Tuesday, have attacked GOP lawmakers for attempting to disguise their repeal of the individual mandate, which will save $300 billion in federal revenue and result in roughly 13 million more uninsured over the next decade, according to the Congressional Budget Office.


“This is turning a tax bill into a health care bill, with our colleagues getting an hour’s worth of notice,” Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon, the top Democrat on the Finance Committee, told The New York Times.


(MORE)
http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/11/16/chief-justice-john-roberts-must-snickering-new-tax-bill-obamacare-decision-563546
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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It's a pity the Republicans are caving on this before the first shot is fired.  Rather predictable, actually.  As a result, they will collect all the negatives of having proposed it, while also collecting all the negatives of caving on it.  The Stupid Party strikes again.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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It's a pity the Republicans are caving on this before the first shot is fired.  Rather predictable, actually.  As a result, they will collect all the negatives of having proposed it, while also collecting all the negatives of caving on it.  The Stupid Party strikes again.


Predicable, Yes.
Stupid? Nah...


When you have people like McCain and other senior Republican figures vacationing at a Soros run retreat, with that, I think we can take 'stupid' off the table. What they are doing is much more than just 'stupid'. They know what they are doing.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Predicable, Yes.
Stupid? Nah...


When you have people like McCain and other senior Republican figures vacationing at a Soros run retreat, with that, I think we can take 'stupid' off the table. What they are doing is much more than just 'stupid'. They know what they are doing.

It's the age-old question:  Is it Stupidity or Malice?   There's an expression, known as Hanlon's Razor:   "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:49:54 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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True, but the most diabolical malice can always find a way to disguise itself as stupidity or error, if not benevolence, and it has the added value of deflecting critics from the true diabolical purpose.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 07:25:41 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline dfwgator

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I don't care what Roberts was thinking, the bottom line is it was his betrayal that made ObamaCare possible.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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True, but the most diabolical malice can always find a way to disguise itself as stupidity or error, if not benevolence, and it has the added value of deflecting critics from the true diabolical purpose.

Of course.  It puts me in a mind about a scene I saw in The Princess Bride that BBC America was showing the other night...about an argument between the Farm Boy (as Pirate) and the little guy about which goblet contained the poisoned wine.  The little guy argued brilliantly on all sides about which goblet was poisoned, acted on his eventual conclusion, and dropped dead because the Farm Boy had poisoned both.  He was immune to the poison.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Snarknado

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Of course.  It puts me in a mind about a scene I saw in The Princess Bride that BBC America was showing the other night...about an argument between the Farm Boy (as Pirate) and the little guy about which goblet contained the poisoned wine.  The little guy argued brilliantly on all sides about which goblet was poisoned, acted on his eventual conclusion, and dropped dead because the Farm Boy had poisoned both.  He was immune to the poison.

Just so I'm clear, the "farm boy" in this analogy is none other than the dread pirate "Roberts"?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Just so I'm clear, the "farm boy" in this analogy is none other than the dread pirate "Roberts"?

I have no idea.  That wasn't the point of the analogy, so I blew it.

No, the point was it's actually impossible to determine whether we're dealing with Malice or Stupidity by employing logic alone.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online corbe

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, as many have already argued the Constitutionality of Roberts eventual about face on the USSC in declaring the obummercare mandate a Tax thing but because of his decision we are now possibly in a position to do away with the mandate with just a very fragile 51 vote margin in the Senate.

    The glass is always half FULL.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, as many have already argued the Constitutionality of Roberts eventual about face on the USSC in declaring the obummercare mandate a Tax thing but because of his decision we are now possibly in a position to do away with the mandate with just a very fragile 51 vote margin in the Senate.

    The glass is always half FULL.

That was my opinion, silly it was at the time, that Roberts was pointing the way to the dagger at Obamacare's throat.  If the "individual contribution" could be considered a "tax," it could be peeled back by a simple majority in the Senate.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online corbe

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 :beer:    Are you insinuating @Cyber Liberty that my reading comprehension is below the National Average?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 10:53:09 pm by corbe »
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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:beer:    Are you insinuating @Cyber Liberty that my reading comprehension is below the National Average?

Quite the contrary.  It was most astute.  Roberts was pointing the way, and others less astute were missing it at the time.

 :beer:
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 10:55:44 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline roamer_1

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That was my opinion, silly it was at the time, that Roberts was pointing the way to the dagger at Obamacare's throat.  If the "individual contribution" could be considered a "tax," it could be peeled back by a simple majority in the Senate.

And just as simply, re-instituted.

That is the problem. Insurance as an industry cannot function with that sort of instability.
They have to hedge toward that eventuality, and will necessarily invest accordingly - the end game being, health insurance will remain high.

Offline Smokin Joe

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And just as simply, re-instituted.

That is the problem. Insurance as an industry cannot function with that sort of instability.
They have to hedge toward that eventuality, and will necessarily invest accordingly - the end game being, health insurance will remain high.
So long as the requirements are for plans that force people to pay for care levels they might not opt for, insurance will have to remain high. The only place there is any 'give' left in that equation is in the deductibles and co-pays, which is why those amounts have skyrocketed along with the cost.

On our 'exchange' it would cost 28K a year in premiums for a policy for a family of 4 with 14K deductible...(before any subsidy paid, provided the family qualified). We're left taking our chances and paying out of pocket.

If we didn't have to pay for coverage for prenatal services, contraceptives, and a host of other things whose time is past, maybe that would be significantly less. If you want the insurance to pay for the little things, they will cost more because the billing the insurance company costs will be factored in, the paying the bill costs will be factored in, and all the costs for the whole rigamarole of different supervisory folks who oversee the entire shooting match will be factored in, too.

It's like getting an aspirin at the hospital, you pay for every step for the aspirin to be purchased, stocked, dispensed, transported, administered, and the paperwork to track and document it, when you could have bought a bottle of 500 for less at the store.

So, when people go from cutting a check to letting the insurance take care of it (and likely cutting that check, too), they incur a lot more expense. ...and I haven't mentioned the profit for the insurer, either.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Frank Cannon

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I don't care what Roberts was thinking, the bottom line is it was his betrayal that made ObamaCare possible.

Bingo. This wasn't some brilliant move by Roberts. This was the Obama regime have pictures of him in bed with farm animals telling him how to vote.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Bingo. This wasn't some brilliant move by Roberts. This was the Obama regime have pictures of him in bed with farm animals telling him how to vote.
It would almost have to be something on that order, because he trashed the Constitution twice in one ruling to approve the ADA.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis