Author Topic: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services  (Read 21359 times)

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Offline thackney

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #375 on: October 20, 2017, 01:57:52 pm »
As a matter of law, how do you propose that to work?

Before the abortion, the mother either has to claim rape or name the father.  Sure, there will be plenty of cheats who name a willing accomplice.  But it would be a step in establishing father's legal rights along with his responsibility.  Those claiming rape will need to at least file a police report.  The named father would have to sign off on the procedure.  False claims punishable by law.

But as a matter of my preference of law, the abortion should be illegals, but I'm willing to consider rape exceptions.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #376 on: October 20, 2017, 01:58:14 pm »
The legal definition on when an abortion is permitted, and when it is not, is inherently arbitrary.  The intent is to provide the woman with a meaningful opportunity to decide, so it is usually described as a designated period of time following implantation.  My own view is that, morally, the limit should be set at about the time the fetus can feel pain.   

  (BTW, I never said life begins at conception, but rather that it begins at implantation.  That's a significant difference, IMO.   The woman's body must accept the conjoined sperm and egg.  In millions of cases,  implantation of the conjoined sperm and egg fails to occur, and is simply flushed away.   In other words, God doesn't create life - the woman does.)
Are you serious?  God is not the Creator?
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #377 on: October 20, 2017, 02:03:40 pm »
Are you serious?  God is not the Creator?

:2popcorn:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #378 on: October 20, 2017, 02:06:13 pm »
Are you serious?  God is not the Creator?

@IsailedawayfromFR you notice too how the man doesn't figure into the equations in ANY positive way in any of Jazzy's pontifications?

Putting the part you stated about God creating life aside for the moment...In what you quoted he puts the creation of life squarely and completely on the woman. No man is involved.

In his other red herring arguments the man is always "absent" or "long gone" or "just trying to get laid".

I'm sensing a theme here.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #379 on: October 20, 2017, 02:09:55 pm »
Are you serious?  God is not the Creator?

If we assume arguendo that God creates the union of sperm and egg,  then what accounts for the reality that millions of such unions fail because they do not implant in the woman's uterus?   

That's why I say that life begins at implantation - and that is a function of the woman's body, not God.   

Does it make a difference morally?   Reasonable minds can differ - it's a deep question.  But if life begins at implantation, then couldn't you say that a woman who aborts isn't denying God, she's simply reversing a function undertaken by her own body?

Sometimes abortions (miscarriages) occur spontaneously.   That was the case with Mrs. Jazz; we lost our first child about four months into the pregnancy,  just a day after announcing to her family that we were expecting.  My wife and I were crushed.  But a year later, she became pregnant with our son.   He's the light of my life - and he would never have existed had that miscarriage not occurred.

That's how I choose to view faith - that God helps things work out for the best.  A woman who aborts a fetus because her partner has abandoned her goes on to have child with a loving partner a couple of years later.   That child wouldn't have existed had the abortion not taken place.   Who's to say what God wants for us?       
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #380 on: October 20, 2017, 02:13:06 pm »
I'm sensing a theme here.

You're right - too many men are pigs.   :tongue2:
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #381 on: October 20, 2017, 02:13:28 pm »
Ignore them, buddy!   Ignore the trolls who get their jollies this morning savaging you while they're sipping coffee.

You serve as an important member here at TBR, @Jazzhead

You keep the haughty 'local'  Christian coalition flummoxed....the ones that find it necessary to preach/condescend everyone with an alternate opinion.

OK. That is felonious bullcrap.  (bolded)

I do agree that @Jazzhead is an important and allegedly legibly , albeit incredibly , substaintially usubstantious participant.














She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #382 on: October 20, 2017, 02:16:16 pm »
Ignore them, buddy!   Ignore the trolls who get their jollies this morning savaging you while they're sipping coffee.

You serve as an important member here at TBR, @Jazzhead

You keep the haughty 'local'  Christian coalition flummoxed....the ones that find it necessary to preach/condescend everyone with an alternate opinion. 

Mega dittos @DCPatriot  and @Jazzhead

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #383 on: October 20, 2017, 02:18:36 pm »

... @Jazzhead bashes Christianity on a daily basis.

I don't agree with your opinion on this @TomSea

Offline Bigun

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #384 on: October 20, 2017, 02:25:36 pm »
Mega dittos @DCPatriot  and @Jazzhead

And I strongly disagree with you both on this!  EVERYthing he writes is a needless disturbance of innocent electrons IMHO!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #386 on: October 20, 2017, 02:45:02 pm »
@DCPatriot

Not a personal attack, just using you as a reference point.

Now. Have you scene the movie "Animal House"? It came out when I was in college. There was a part where the "plebe" had a girl in the back of a car , ready and willing, and she passed out. And he ask the audience---yes---no.

It was a highly debated issue at that time on that campus in my time. The consensus, between both men and women, was that there is a point where personal responsibility was the core of the issue.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #387 on: October 20, 2017, 02:47:10 pm »
And I strongly disagree with you both on this!  EVERYthing he writes is a needless disturbance of innocent electrons IMHO!

@Bigun

She's only cheerleading because the same people that take issue with them are taking issue with Jazzy and they all three share common ground.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online sneakypete

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #388 on: October 20, 2017, 03:15:04 pm »
But the fetus has rights too; and should be protected from encroachment and coercion of the state as well as irresponsible parents. The fetus is a human being, it is truly disgusting to read these feminist and planned parenthood arguments here. As far as I'm concerned those arguments totally lack integrity.

@TomSea

A fetus is a POTENTIAL human being right up to the point it can exist on it's own outside the mother.

Yes,it DOES have rights as long as it is healthy and continues to evolve into a full-fledged human,but it is NOT an actual human.

Don't confuse dogma with reality.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 03:16:12 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #389 on: October 20, 2017, 03:21:39 pm »
@Bigun

She's only cheerleading because the same people that take issue with them are taking issue with Jazzy and they all three share common ground.

Ah ... more deep thoughts from @txradioguy   (AKA comic relief   88devil )

Bless your heart txradioguy, you're a treasure. 


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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #390 on: October 20, 2017, 03:23:43 pm »
Quote
I think the couple have the time to make those decisions prior to the act that started the pregnancy.



Many people do,but still end up with an "OOPS!" moment and there is no rebooting. There are many reasons to not want that pregnancy to result in a birth,and the burden for making that decision,which is no doubt one of the most serious decisions a woman,man,or couple has to make,IS theirs to make,not yours and not mind.

Quote
Legal abortion is the justification too many men use to walk away from their responsibilities and the acceptance of others in society for them to do so.

That's very true. It is also the justification many women make to "punish" their husband or male companion,just because they can.

Both are irrelevant to the legality,if not to the morality,and morality is a pretty personal and cultural thing.



Quote
My wife would likely never had been born in today's society.  She was the result of an affair between a young woman and a man married to another.  Their embarrassment and inconvenience should not comdem her to death.  It should not be legal for them to kill her.

The same can be said for me,but my birth mother chose to give birth to me and give me to someone else. It WAS her decision to make as a mentally competent adult.
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Online sneakypete

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #391 on: October 20, 2017, 03:28:06 pm »
These arguments embrace the culture of death, really similar to the way the Nazis saw some humans as not being worthy of having life.  Truly morally depraved.

@TomSea

Blah,blah,mindless blah. ALL cultures seem to be "the culture of death",and there is no culture where this is more true than the Christian culture that celebrates the death and the alleged resurrection of Jesus. It would be a fair statement to say that Christianity is a death cult that embraces murder and other forms of death so God can resurrect the dead. Without Resurrection,Christianity has nothing to offer but guilt and punishment.

In all fairness,I suspect the same,or worse,can be said about every other religion,also.
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Online sneakypete

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #392 on: October 20, 2017, 03:29:55 pm »
Your post reminded me of this quote @Jazzhead



@Right_in_Virginia

Says one of the world's most famous perverts and child molesters.

Proving that even perverts can occasionally be right about something.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #393 on: October 20, 2017, 03:31:46 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Says one of the world's most famous perverts and child molesters.

Proving that even perverts can occasionally be right about something.

The broken clock syndrome ... @sneakypete 

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #394 on: October 20, 2017, 03:32:25 pm »
@Bigun

She's only cheerleading because the same people that take issue with them are taking issue with Jazzy and they all three share common ground.

@txradioguy

Virtually never get on threads with abortion-themed topics in a title. 

Know how they all end up, and nobody's going to change anybody's mind.   So, why get all worked up?   

Why do I want to read some sanctimonious screed whose primary purpose is to dazzle the reader regarding their intimacy with The Good Book?     

You can 'see' them looking down the bridge of their nose in any general direction.

That said, like @Jazzhead , I am Pro-Life.  As a parent, how could I be anything else?

But abortion is a woman's right.   No talking about late term.   I'm talking you find out you're pregnant on Monday and you take care of it within the week.

The ONLY way you get to change that law is to change the attitude and thinking.   Society won't allow it with the Feminist/Glass Ceiling equal pay issues.  Thank God for parochial schools.   Hopefully, ones where patent leather shoes aren't forbidden.   /s

And pragmatically, you cannot force a girl/woman to give birth...in order to offer them up for adoption, etc..

As much as we hated the terminology Obama used, he was right.   You cannot saddle a girl/woman with motherhood for 20+ years for a 'mistake' in judgment.

Technology exists today, where abortions are completed in a sterile and safe environment.

[Removed by Mod8]

ME?  I'm way out there.   Anybody on welfare for more than nine months?   Get snipped, tied or be denied.

« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 09:06:58 pm by MOD8 »
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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #395 on: October 20, 2017, 03:36:55 pm »
OK. That is felonious bullcrap.  (bolded)

I do agree that @Jazzhead is an important and allegedly legibly , albeit incredibly , substaintially usubstantious participant.

 :beer:   :laugh:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline TomSea

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #396 on: October 20, 2017, 04:13:13 pm »
@TomSea

Blah,blah,mindless blah. ALL cultures seem to be "the culture of death",and there is no culture where this is more true than the Christian culture that celebrates the death and the alleged resurrection of Jesus. It would be a fair statement to say that Christianity is a death cult that embraces murder and other forms of death so God can resurrect the dead. Without Resurrection,Christianity has nothing to offer but guilt and punishment.

In all fairness,I suspect the same,or worse,can be said about every other religion,also.


I disagree with what you say or how you put it but would fight for your right to say it.

@sneakypete

Offline TomSea

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #397 on: October 20, 2017, 04:31:54 pm »
@TomSea

A fetus is a POTENTIAL human being right up to the point it can exist on it's own outside the mother.

Yes,it DOES have rights as long as it is healthy and continues to evolve into a full-fledged human,but it is NOT an actual human.

Don't confuse dogma with reality.

If all of this is so, there would be no record of murders committed against married woman and a person being charged with 2 murders.

North Carolina Man Charged for Killing Pregnant Woman, Baby
http://www.lifenews.com/2012/01/19/north-carolina-man-charged-for-killing-pregnant-woman-baby/

HHS said this. They follow dogma I gather.

@sneakypete

Offline TomSea

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #398 on: October 20, 2017, 04:33:15 pm »
@txradioguy

Virtually never get on threads with abortion-themed topics in a title. 

Know how they all end up, and nobody's going to change anybody's mind.   So, why get all worked up?   

Why do I want to read some sanctimonious screed whose primary purpose is to dazzle the reader regarding their intimacy with The Good Book?     

You can 'see' them looking down the bridge of their nose in any general direction.

That said, like @Jazzhead , I am Pro-Life.  As a parent, how could I be anything else?

But abortion is a woman's right.   No talking about late term.   I'm talking you find out you're pregnant on Monday and you take care of it within the week.

The ONLY way you get to change that law is to change the attitude and thinking.   Society won't allow it with the Feminist/Glass Ceiling equal pay issues.  Thank God for parochial schools.   Hopefully, ones where patent leather shoes aren't forbidden.   /s

And pragmatically, you cannot force a girl/woman to give birth...in order to offer them up for adoption, etc..

As much as we hated the terminology Obama used, he was right.   You cannot saddle a girl/woman with motherhood for 20+ years for a 'mistake' in judgment.

Technology exists today, where abortions are completed in a sterile and safe environment.

[Removed by Mod8]

ME?  I'm way out there.   Anybody on welfare for more than nine months?   Get snipped, tied or be denied.

I'd say previous to Roe V. Wade, the US was a more moral place with some exceptions and abortion and other issues have played into the decline of America.

Out of wedlock births were much fewer.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 09:08:04 pm by MOD8 »

Offline INVAR

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Re: Life Begins at Conception, Says Department of Health and Human Services
« Reply #399 on: October 20, 2017, 04:35:40 pm »
The amount of justification for abject evil and the open hatred and despisement of God's truth on this thread by those who pretend to be Christians is truly enlightening.  I find it illustrative that similar condemnation, ridicule and even threat was received when we refused to surrender Christian principles to vote for Trump as demanded last year.  Familiar handles expressing their disgust with biblical principles being argued against infanticide is not surprising.

The wisdom of self and the world being spouted here by self-identifying followers of Christ as a better morality than the 'evil' of the Word of God is frightening in terms of the depths of delusion they have been taken to.  They have deceived themselves and allowed themselves to be deceived by this world's morality which they declare to be from the Christ they claim is theirs.  They are as ignorant of Him as His Word that they reject and despise.

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of iniquity." - Matthew 7:21-23

Doing the Will of the Father in no wise involves the advocacy of and service towards helping women slaughter their infants because they use abortion as a form of birth control. To call that "Compassion" is of an evil not even the Nazis could touch.

In India it is legal to slaughter a little girl up to five years of age because their culture does not recognize a female to be a full human being until she is married.  Despite that culture, this nation has slaughtered millions more children than they have. This people do not recognize an infant in the womb to be a 'viable' human being until some mythical date they choose to justify the baby as being 'alive'.  An entire generation of American children has been ripped to pieces in the womb and dumped upon the altar of convenience and "legality".  Nearly 60 million.  India is a pagan nation and nearly wholly ignorant of the Creator as revealed in scripture.  America was not.  We have no excuse.

Do we think God has not noticed or is going to absolve those whom justify this institutionalized genocide?  We got another thing coming if we do, and I do fear for us. We are not going to be able to declare ignorance on That Day when we all have to answer for what this nation has done with our approval and articulate justifications.  God is not mocked, and even Jefferson stated that he 'trembled for his country when he considered that God is Just, and His Justice will not sleep forever'.

So many have willfully chosen to ignore such wisdom in favor of a Jesus they have constructed from their own imagination at the behest of Prosperity Gospel pimps and their own fleshly desires for justification to embrace evil as a good, while denouncing righteousness as an evil.  Woe to us.

If the civil war was God's judgment upon us in blood for slavery - I tremble at what the cost in blood is going to be required upon this nation for the legal slaughter of infants so we can have sex out of wedlock without consequences. 

The Lord said "Choose life, that you and your descendants may live".

We have chosen death, and it's beyond appalling to read the justifications for it on a site dedicated to Conservative principles that some have obviously discarded along with common decency.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775