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Offline RoosGirl

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« Reply #225 on: October 11, 2017, 01:49:34 PM »
That's just it.  The baker did stay true to his word.  He doesn't make halloween cakes.  He doesn't make swastika cakes.  And he doesn't make cakes for same-sex weddings (regardless of the sexual preference of the person buying it).



But he didn't stay true to his word because he advertised as making wedding cakes.  He never advertised he didn't make same-sex wedding cakes.  And a wedding cake is a wedding cake.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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« Reply #226 on: October 11, 2017, 02:17:05 PM »
Come on and take one for the team!   :laugh:

No way, I'm sure the Mods already have me on speed-dial....
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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« Reply #227 on: October 11, 2017, 02:34:41 PM »
? wrong thread...

As for Jazzhead, he sounds like a typical "you didn't build that, you just got lucky in life" liberal to me.  Redundant, I know.
It's far worse than that.  He gets to say 'Discrimination!' as easy as a racist says 'Racist!' because there are no boundaries in a liberal's world.

Nothing is off-limits, so no morality is bad enough to draw a line.

We all discriminate as human beings.  A lot of us due to our understanding of God's wishes.  What we choose to do, he would force us to accept otherwise in the world of diversity, and use the power of the courts to implement our enslavement by forced acceptance, and the hell with what God's wishes might be.

Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Online musiclady

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« Reply #228 on: October 11, 2017, 02:53:14 PM »
I deleted the post, on my own initiative.  Still you attack.  I apologized to you personally.  Still you attack.   What the hell, ML?   

1.   I didn't 'attack.'  I reacted.

2.   I used to have a lot of respect for you, back when I thought you believed in justice and equality.  Now that you have made it clear that you don't, in hostile terms (and with a non-apology, a la liberalism), I am disappointed.

That is all.

@Jazzhead
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Jazzhead

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« Reply #229 on: October 11, 2017, 04:11:15 PM »
1.   I didn't 'attack.'  I reacted.

2.   I used to have a lot of respect for you, back when I thought you believed in justice and equality.  Now that you have made it clear that you don't, in hostile terms (and with a non-apology, a la liberalism), I am disappointed.

That is all.

@Jazzhead

I'm sorry you feel that way, ML.   Trust me, the feeling is not mutual, and I have always read what you've had to say with interest and respect you as a valuable contributor to this board.   
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 04:11:44 PM by Jazzhead »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #230 on: October 11, 2017, 04:43:35 PM »


But he didn't stay true to his word because he advertised as making wedding cakes.  He never advertised he didn't make same-sex wedding cakes.  And a wedding cake is a wedding cake.
But same-sex weddings were not recognized by the State of Colorado at the time: to wit, legally, it wasn't a wedding..
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Offline RoosGirl

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« Reply #231 on: October 11, 2017, 05:15:36 PM »
But same-sex weddings were not recognized by the State of Colorado at the time: to wit, legally, it wasn't a wedding..

Please do not cloud the issue with facts.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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« Reply #232 on: October 11, 2017, 05:20:03 PM »
Please do not cloud the issue with facts.

 ****slapping 22222frying pan :chairbang:
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Online Hoodat

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« Reply #233 on: October 11, 2017, 05:33:47 PM »


But he didn't stay true to his word because he advertised as making wedding cakes.  He never advertised he didn't make same-sex wedding cakes.  And a wedding cake is a wedding cake.

I see what you did there.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline GtHawk

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« Reply #234 on: October 11, 2017, 05:35:22 PM »
But same-sex weddings were not recognized by the State of Colorado at the time: to wit, legally, it wasn't a wedding..
This is all too ridiculous, taking up so much time and energy, but wasn't the issue that it was not just a wedding cake of which the baker made certain styles, but that the Boys
wanted a custom cake which the baker did not offer anyway and in a gay queer theme. In any case as someone else pointed out it is up to USSC now.

Online Hoodat

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« Reply #235 on: October 11, 2017, 05:44:46 PM »
This is all too ridiculous, taking up so much time and energy, but wasn't the issue that it was not just a wedding cake of which the baker made certain styles, but that the Boys
wanted a custom cake which the baker did not offer anyway and in a gay queer theme. In any case as someone else pointed out it is up to USSC now.


@GtHawk

Nope.  The discussion of never got that far.  Here are the facts:

  • The customer requested a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding.
  • The baker turned down the request, because he does not make cakes for same-sex weddings, which at the time were not legal in Colorado.
  • The baker offered to make something else
  • Customer turned down alternative offer.
  • The next day, someone else phoned the shop and asked for a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding
  • The baker turned down the request, because he does not make cakes for same-sex weddings.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #236 on: October 11, 2017, 06:29:30 PM »
@GtHawk

Nope.  The discussion of never got that far.  Here are the facts:

  • The customer requested a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding.
  • The baker turned down the request, because he does not make cakes for same-sex weddings, which at the time were not legal in Colorado.
  • The baker offered to make something else
  • Customer turned down alternative offer.
  • The next day, someone else phoned the shop and asked for a wedding cake for a same-sex wedding
  • The baker turned down the request, because he does not make cakes for same-sex weddings.
So if you are an old fashioned Jewish Deli and you do catering for parties and the NeoNazis have a shindig and call you, you have to do the catering? You can't refuse? That is the sort of precedent the homosexuals want to perpetrate upon our system of jurisprudence. Hopefully (there never are any guarantees) the Courts resist ruling for such an imposition.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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« Reply #237 on: October 11, 2017, 06:32:42 PM »
So if you are an old fashioned Jewish Deli and you do catering for parties and the NeoNazis have a shindig and call you, you have to do the catering? You can't refuse? That is the sort of precedent the homosexuals want to perpetrate upon our system of jurisprudence. Hopefully (there never are any guarantees) the Courts resist ruling for such an imposition.

I don't think @Hoodat is disagreeing with us on this, Joe.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 06:33:14 PM by Cyber Liberty »
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #238 on: October 11, 2017, 06:36:32 PM »
I don't think @Hoodat is disagreeing with us on this, Joe.
I wasn't disagreeing with @Hoodat, either, just extrapolating the precedent to a universally understood example of why finding against the baker would be a really bad idea. Sorry if I was being my usual disagreeable sellf.  :tongue2:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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« Reply #239 on: October 11, 2017, 06:42:11 PM »
I wasn't disagreeing with @Hoodat, either, just extrapolating the precedent to a universally understood example of why finding against the baker would be a really bad idea. Sorry if I was being my usual disagreeable sellf.  :tongue2:

I happen to think you are a very agreeable chap.    :shrug:  :tongue2:

I'm worried about SCOTUS on this.  There are at least four Justices who think it's a grand idea to force the baker, under penalty of jail if necessary, to create the cake.  SCOTUS has become a crapshoot, just like the entire court system.  It's a gamble.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 06:43:28 PM by Cyber Liberty »
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #240 on: October 11, 2017, 06:50:09 PM »
I happen to think you are a very agreeable chap.    :shrug:  :tongue2:

I'm worried about SCOTUS on this.  There are at least four Justices who think it's a grand idea to force the baker, under penalty of jail if necessary, to create the cake.  SCOTUS has become a crapshoot, just like the entire court system.  It's a gamble.
Nothing is ever a given in court. The innocent are summarily convicted because of superficialities on a regular basis because people can't separate fact from emotion and react to the calm of an innocent defendant as being a complete absence of remorse for a crime they wouldn't be on trial for if they weren't guilty. (It is that bad, unfortunately, in places).
I haven't trusted one damned thing SCOTUS has in front of it since Roberts illegally rewrote the ACA to illegally rule it "constitutional". This could go either way, and with one of the highest percentages of homosexuals in the country in DC, it's hard to tell what pressures are being brought to bear in chambers.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Online Hoodat

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« Reply #241 on: October 11, 2017, 06:53:12 PM »
So if you are an old fashioned Jewish Deli and you do catering for parties and the NeoNazis have a shindig and call you, you have to do the catering? You can't refuse?

According to Jazzhead, you can refuse to do the catering in that situation, primarily because Jazzhead gets to be the arbiter of what types of discrimination are legal and which are not.  All in the name of consistency, of course.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #242 on: October 11, 2017, 06:57:44 PM »
According to Jazzhead, you can refuse to do the catering in that situation, primarily because Jazzhead gets to be the arbiter of what types of discrimination are legal and which are not.  All in the name of consistency, of course.
What if they are Gay Nazis?  :chairbang:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Online Hoodat

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« Reply #243 on: October 11, 2017, 07:11:05 PM »
What if they are Gay Nazis?  :chairbang:

Then it would all come down to what they happened to be thinking at the time.  The action itself is not relevant.  It is the intent.  And Jazzhead is able to read minds and know exactly what the intent of the egregious perpetrators is.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline Cyber Liberty

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« Reply #244 on: October 11, 2017, 07:15:41 PM »
Nothing is ever a given in court. The innocent are summarily convicted because of superficialities on a regular basis because people can't separate fact from emotion and react to the calm of an innocent defendant as being a complete absence of remorse for a crime they wouldn't be on trial for if they weren't guilty. (It is that bad, unfortunately, in places).
I haven't trusted one damned thing SCOTUS has in front of it since Roberts illegally rewrote the ACA to illegally rule it "constitutional". This could go either way, and with one of the highest percentages of homosexuals in the country in DC, it's hard to tell what pressures are being brought to bear in chambers.

Nailed it.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
                          Castillo del Cyber! ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline mountaineer

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« Reply #245 on: October 11, 2017, 08:30:23 PM »
"Because men have lost the objective basis of certainty of knowledge of the thing in which they are working, more and more I fear we are going to find them manipulating science according to their own sociological or political desires rather than standing upon concrete objectivity." Francis A. Schaeffer

Online Hoodat

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« Reply #246 on: October 11, 2017, 10:03:30 PM »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline mountaineer

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« Reply #247 on: October 11, 2017, 10:07:07 PM »
That may require some long knives.
Casual attire -brown shirts.
"Because men have lost the objective basis of certainty of knowledge of the thing in which they are working, more and more I fear we are going to find them manipulating science according to their own sociological or political desires rather than standing upon concrete objectivity." Francis A. Schaeffer

Offline ColdSteelTalon

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« Reply #248 on: October 12, 2017, 09:55:13 PM »
I think not.  Christians are the ones discriminated against, and that's OK.  There should be a suit brought, but by whom?

Thats what I said by throwing the Christians out he opened himself up to a lawsuit.


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