Author Topic: Gay coffee shop owner kicks Christians out of cafe, goes on vulgar rant — it was all caught on video  (Read 12526 times)

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Offline musiclady

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@musiclady I agree.  I had to edit my comments a couple times to filter out some of what was passing from my brain to my fingers when I read that crap he posted.

Clearly he's not reading from the same set of scriptures we are.  He is more focused on social justice and being inclusive...than what is clearly written in the texts.

I modified my description after I thought better of it, so if you can in your quote, I'd appreciate it.

The gulf between the comment that homosexuals would become pro-life if they actually discovered a homosexual gene..... for self-preservation, and saying that people who treasure life and value every human would advocate MURDER if that (imaginary) gene were discovered, is enormous, and the accusation against pro-lifers HIDEOUS.

My biggest question is whether @Jazzhead actually believes the filth he is spewing, or if he has just become so angry and argumentative that he'll say anything.......... no matter how FOUL......... to win this wretched argument.

This is the guy who goes around saying be nice to each other, and he's accusing ME of wanting to kill unborn homosexual babies (which, of course, do not exist, since they are not "born that way.")
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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You needn't have hesitated, he has admitted so himself during similar discussions.

Well, I did edit out "ugly" and "vengeful" (if you would do the same, please).

But I still maintain that he has a deep disdain of pro-life, pro-morality TBR members, and has a meanness that has been really surprising to me.

The irony is that he attacks us because we aren't nice and fair enough, while accusing us of all sorts of vile things himself.

Perhaps he actually is only here to shut down threads as some have said.  Who knows?
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Jazzhead

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This is the guy who goes around saying be nice to each other, and he's accusing ME of wanting to kill unborn homosexual babies (which, of course, do not exist, since they are not "born that way.")

Did you notice that I deleted the post?   Would you like an apology too?   OK - I apologize, musiclady.   And to any other Christians on this thread who may have been offended, even those gentle ones who post that if they had their way, all homosexuals would be "rounded up and defenestrated". 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 02:45:39 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline musiclady

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Did you notice that I deleted the post?   Would you like an apology too?   OK - I apologize, musiclady.   And to any other Christians on this thread who may have been offended, even those gentle ones who post that if they had their way, all homosexuals would be "rounded up and defenestrated".

You really think that helps?  What has happened to you??

Your pseudo apology is an exercise in absurdity.

You have become what you supposedly hate.  MEAN.  NASTY. 

Why don't you give that some thought, and come back the way you used to be.........
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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And with that I will exit (at least for now) this thread.

The "gay" (ludicrous term, is it not?) coffee shop owner is filled with hatred, and should be prosecuted for discrimination against Christians JUST BECAUSE they are Christian.

Of course, he won't be, because we now live in a progressive nightmare of a country without justice.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline LateForLunch

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Well, I did edit out "ugly" and "vengeful" (if you would do the same, please).

But I still maintain that he has a deep disdain of pro-life, pro-morality TBR members, and has a meanness that has been really surprising to me.

The irony is that he attacks us because we aren't nice and fair enough, while accusing us of all sorts of vile things himself.

Perhaps he actually is only here to shut down threads as some have said.  Who knows?

People on forums tend to defend their opinions the way Velocoraptors defend their eggs - they somehow get the idea that there is some very profound threat to them in not doing so effectively.

CG Jung once said of people's own perception of their own morality, "It is impossible for one to conceive of any morality superior to their own."

What I think heir Jung must have meant by that is we ascribe to the best morality that makes sense to us. When and if we encounter any moral synthesis which we deem superior, we then adopt it for our own.

One big problem with Forum debates is that people are so quick to defend their POV sometimes, that they don't take time for reflection and pondering - they "listen to respond" instead of "listening to understand".

Personally, I dislike it when people stand too much on technicalities and legalisms and I see a lot of that with Jazzhead's position(s). As if something that is legal is ergo, automatically moral.

Laws should be guidelines for justice. Clearly (at least to me) any law which allows someone to destroy another person's business/livelihood because of their refusal to provide some casual product/service, is immoral (idiotic) and should be eradicated.

Jazzhead's arguments are so ponderous they get bogged down in legalisms, perfunctory deferral to abstruse technicalities and other things tangential to making a sound moral judgment. His posts avoid the larger, more-central issues and concentrate on things that seem to me to be detached from the larger, more-vital  elements.

There is an immediate gestalt, a zeitgeist in human activity that gets lost in cerebralism. Too much excursion into philosophical sophistries leads AWAY from health and sanity, not toward them. 

We need to stop passing and maintaining laws that do not feel right. Sometimes intuition is a good guide - so in this case, which simply STINQUES of Statist, militant homsexual BS.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 02:59:09 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline thackney

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What I would do if I was a Christian operating a bakery is any time any homosexual couple came in demanding a wedding cake, do it but make it as badly as possible without violating any law. That way, the law is satisfied (render unto Caesar) and the Christians dodge a bullet.

I could not do that.  Nor do I see a business owner who success is built around his quality would do so.  And if you are making a stand for principal, you would be seen as not having that principal.
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Offline skeeter

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And with that I will exit (at least for now) this thread.

The "gay" (ludicrous term, is it not?) coffee shop owner is filled with hatred, and should be prosecuted for discrimination against Christians JUST BECAUSE they are Christian.

Of course, he won't be, because we now live in a progressive nightmare of a country without justice.

Here in the SF area I can assure you that such irrational antipathy towards Christians in the gay community is the norm rather than the exception. And just about everyone is afraid to challenge them on it.

Offline LateForLunch

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I could not do that.  Nor do I see a business owner who success is built around his quality would do so.  And if you are making a stand for principal, you would be seen as not having that principal.

We all make choices. Yours would be to refuse to compromise because you deem it a betrayal of some fundamental principle. I see it as picking  your battles.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Here in the SF area I can assure you that such irrational antipathy towards Christians in the gay community is the norm rather than the exception. And just about everyone is afraid to challenge them on it.

Well, maybe someone should.  We've sidetracked on this thread back to the baker, but as I noted (many pages back),  the barista is a creep and someone ought to sue his bigoted ass.
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Offline LateForLunch

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And with that I will exit (at least for now) this thread.

The "gay" (ludicrous term, is it not?) coffee shop owner is filled with hatred, and should be prosecuted for discrimination against Christians JUST BECAUSE they are Christian.

Of course, he won't be, because we now live in a progressive nightmare of a country without justice.

Man, I hear you, sister. I am blessed by knowing a lot of conservative "gay" people. I think of them as normal people who happen to prefer their own gender for intimacy. What people do behind closed doors is none of my bidneh.  Not a single one of them give a rat's behind about gay marriage or any of the other standard leftist BS we are all supposed to be so concerned about. PTUI!! Who cares !?!

Justice is a relative term. There is no perfect justice. That's because any time a third-party gets involved in order to resolve some dispute, it will be impossible for any decision to be rendered which is perceived as completely, wholly and totally fair to both parties. One or both will have to give up something to which they feel entitled. That is the nature of "justice" in our world when third-parties get involved.

We pick our battles and hope that the right-mindedness prevails. The battle is already won. We have but to do our parts and have faith that God will do at least some of the heavy lifting. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:31:12 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline Jazzhead

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You really think that helps?  What has happened to you??

Your pseudo apology is an exercise in absurdity.

You have become what you supposedly hate.  MEAN.  NASTY. 

Why don't you give that some thought, and come back the way you used to be.........

I deleted the post, on my own initiative.  Still you attack.  I apologized to you personally.  Still you attack.   What the hell, ML?   
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Of course, he won't be, because we now live in a progressive nightmare of a country without justice.

Especially Seattle.  :shrug:
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Offline Jazzhead

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Jazzhead's arguments are so ponderous they get bogged down in legalisms, perfunctory deferral to abstruse technicalities and other things tangential to making a sound moral judgment. His posts avoid the larger, more-central issues and concentrate on things that seem to me to be detached from the larger, more-vital  elements.


At root, my argument is simple - stay true to your word.   No one's forcing you to sell wedding cakes.  But if that's your choice, and you advertise to the general public that you do,  then serve all your customers on the same basis.

 
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Offline HoustonSam

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*****rollingeyes*****  After the gay customer was refused service,  his mother came in the next day.  That was the "heterosexual woman" who was also refused service.    Service was refused because the cake was to be used to celebrate a same sex wedding.   That's the crux of the discrimination, and there is court precedent that such conduct is indeed discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.   I don't know how the Supreme Court will rule, but I can guarantee you they won't find for the baker on the basis of this silly argument.

Yes, service was refused because the cake was to be used to celebrate a same-sex wedding.  And it makes no difference whether the heterosexual woman was the mother of the original requestor.  Service was refused to *both* homosexual and heterosexual requestors, so clearly the preference of the requestor had nothing to do with the baker's decision, and as has been posted repeatedly the baker offered the homosexual customers anything else available in his shop.  In no sense did he refuse to do business with them.

My argument is logical, not legal.  I don't doubt that legal precedent exists to label the baker's policy as illegal discrimination, and I offer no prediction on how the court will rule.  Regardless of precedent or rule, the fact is the baker by definition did not discriminate against anyone.  Ignoring the facts and focusing law on ideology, whether done by laymen or judges, creates contempt for the law.
James 1:20

Offline LateForLunch

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At root, my argument is simple - stay true to your word.   No one's forcing you to sell wedding cakes.  But if that's your choice, and you advertise to the general public that you do,  then serve all your customers on the same basis.

The bakers are in their view being true to their word to their God. For people such as yourself without any concerns about such things, it is not surprising that you would see the desire of others to keep their word to their God as wholly dismissible, childish even. Selah.

I am unaware of any civilized culture in the history of humanity which made failing to "keep your word" about something like this, a criminal offense. Most normal cultures would not bother with such idiocy, they would dismiss it utterly as frivolous, superfluous / tangential to the central concerns of society.

I'm guessing that you are not a big supporter of libertarian (small "l") causes, Jazzhead. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:59:20 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline Jazzhead

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.  Regardless of precedent or rule, the fact is the baker by definition did not discriminate against anyone. 

If he hadn't "discriminated against anyone", he'd have sold them the cake.   *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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There are far too many legitimate issues requiring government force to maintain order to waste time/resources catering to pushy homos who are too lazy or stupid to find a bakery that WANTS their business.
They were not too lazy or stupid, as they did indeed find an alternative source for their cake to be baked.

They only after weeks decided to escalate this, what @Jazzhead calls a 'Silly Argument', into a court case.

The agenda is clear as can be: "conform to my sinful ways, or you will regret it."
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline LateForLunch

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If he hadn't "discriminated against anyone", he'd have sold them the cake.   *****rollingeyes*****

Yeah, we get it. No need to keep repeating the homos case over and over and over again. The courts will decide the legal issue.  God will decide the theological one. And you along with the rest of us will decide the political ones.
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Offline HoustonSam

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If he hadn't "discriminated against anyone", he'd have sold them the cake.   *****rollingeyes*****

If he *had* discriminated, he'd have sold the cake to the woman, or refused the homosexuals anything in his shop.  But neither of those things happened.
James 1:20

Offline RoosGirl

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Offline thackney

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At root, my argument is simple - stay true to your word.   No one's forcing you to sell wedding cakes.  But if that's your choice, and you advertise to the general public that you do,  then serve all your customers on the same basis.

Just one more angle on this @Jazzhead

If it was for an illegal wedding, say underage or multiple spouses or....
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 06:12:55 pm by thackney »
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Offline XenaLee

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You really think that helps?  What has happened to you??

Your pseudo apology is an exercise in absurdity.

You have become what you supposedly hate.  MEAN.  NASTY. 

Why don't you give that some thought, and come back the way you used to be.........

? wrong thread...

As for Jazzhead, he sounds like a typical "you didn't build that, you just got lucky in life" liberal to me.  Redundant, I know.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 05:11:29 pm by XenaLee »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Imagine if a Christian came into a homosexual bakery and demanded a cake that said, "All Homosexuals Are Going to Hell!!" and the homo refused to give service. You think that Christian would run to a cop and start whining about legal rights? They'd just go somewhere else or bake it themselves.

It would have to be a Fred Phelps style of Christian who would want that, and just about any Christian baker I can think of (like the one we've been talking about) would tell the requester of such a cake to go pound sand.
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Offline Hoodat

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At root, my argument is simple - stay true to your word.

That's just it.  The baker did stay true to his word.  He doesn't make halloween cakes.  He doesn't make swastika cakes.  And he doesn't make cakes for same-sex weddings (regardless of the sexual preference of the person buying it).
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