Author Topic: Growing Number of Republican Lawmakers Call on Trump to Condemn White Nationalists by Name  (Read 13194 times)

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Offline FeelNoPain

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As far as blood stained history goes, international socialism of the kind undergirding authoritarian groups like BLM and Antifa blows every other murderous ideology away in terms of body count.

Americans find "KKK" and "Nazi" easily identifiable and know how these groups have personally affected our nation.

I am dubious that many Americans will draw some parallel or make a connection between BLM/Antifa and some movement rooted in Europe or Africa. And, as stated previously, the media certainly won't guide them in such a direction.
"I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem...

To demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol: you have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction: you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law: you will pay." - President Donald J. Trump, January 7th, 2021

Offline Sanguine

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Americans find "KKK" and "Nazi" easily identifiable and know how these groups have personally affected our nation.

I am dubious that many Americans will draw some parallel or make a connection between BLM/Antifa and some movement rooted in Europe or Africa. And, as stated previously, the media certainly won't guide them in such a direction.

Perhaps, but most of the people here are not those Americans.

Online bigheadfred

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Americans find "KKK" and "Nazi" easily identifiable and know how these groups have personally affected our nation.

I am dubious that many Americans will draw some parallel or make a connection between BLM/Antifa and some movement rooted in Europe or Africa. And, as stated previously, the media certainly won't guide them in such a direction.

True that the media won't guide them. But you can. I can. We all can. Know why? Because we are all Ameri cans.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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While I agree with your assertion that BLM and Antifa are counterproductive, they don't have the body count of millions (Nazis) and thousands (KKK) of people murdered under their respective banners.

The historical record matters. Those individuals in Charlottesville chose to represent those heinous organizations because they embrace the blood-stained history of said groups.
The individuals were there to protest the destruction of monuments to Confederate generals and troops (essentially, war memorials).

Either Rights are Rights for everyone or they are not Rights at all, they are privileges exercised at the whim of those in power.

Most of the perpetrators of crimes you describe are long dead. Should we wait until the Antifa (Communists, really, with an impressive body count as a group if you aren't picky about the name they use this month) or BLM rack up the tombstones or build ovens and send people to camp to do anything about them?

Otherwise, the KKK and the Neonazis just need a different name and a new flag, right?

Or do we learn from history and nip this sh*t in the bud all around and demand that such protests, lawfully conducted,  go unmolested?

That way, other groups retain the right to protest, too. Otherwise, the ladies garden club won't even be able to protest flower bed regulations, and we all lose a fundamental Right.

We have a Constitution which respects the Right to peaceably assemble and the Right to free speech. Encumbered as it was with permit requirements, one group got the required permit to assemble in peaceful protest and was attacked, forced from that venue and attacked some more. That is the essence of the issue, and regardless of the name or ideology of the groups involved, one was in the right and one was in the wrong--whether or not we agree with what they have to say, it is their Right to say it. We can find their viewpoint despicable, but to deprive them of their Right to hold that belief, to express it, to assemble peacefully to do so places all of our Liberty in far greater peril than to endure and ignore and even refute in open forum (without infringing on their Right) their message or their core beliefs. Regardless of the core beliefs of the Klan or White Supremacist groups, I do agree that the war memorials should stand and do not see where the beliefs of those groups should be used to oppose the preservation of out nation's history.
If others want other memorials, they can put them up, too.
 
The actions of one individual with an automobile were definitely wrong, without argument. 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 03:39:21 am by Smokin Joe »
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Offline INVAR

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We have a Constitution which respects the Right to peaceably assemble and the Right to free speech. Encumbered as it was with permit requirements, one group got the required permit to assemble in peaceful protest and was attacked, forced from that venue and attacked some more. That is the essence of the issue, and regardless of the name or ideology of the groups involved, one was in the right and one was in the wrong--whether or not we agree with what they have to say, it is their Right to say it. We can find their viewpoint despicable, but to deprive them of their Right to hold that belief, to express it, to assemble peacefully to do so places all of our Liberty in far greater peril than to endure and ignore and even refute in open forum (without infringing on their Right) their message or their core beliefs. Regardless of the core beliefs of the Klan or White Supremacist groups, I do agree that the war memorials should stand and do not see where the beliefs of those groups should be used to oppose the preservation of out nation's history.
If others want other memorials, they can put them up, too.

Well stated. 

But irrelevant and no longer valid in this brave new Amerika we exist in that we pretend affords and preserves liberty for all.


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Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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Regardless of the core beliefs of the Klan or White Supremacist groups, I do agree that the war memorials should stand and do not see where the beliefs of those groups should be used to oppose the preservation of out nation's history.
If others want other memorials, they can put them up, too.


I do too, especially the memorials honoring common soldiers.   But the world changed this week, and we all have to be careful of the company we keep.   The cause of preserving the memory of the Confederate dead may have been a noble one, but an alliance with Nazis and white supremacists has made the cause toxic.   Just as Dylan Roof's murderous rampage led to the consignment of the stars and bars to the dustbin,  so will the actions of one idiot self-styled Nazi in a car accelerate the removal of those statues to Southern memory.

The right cannot be associated with the alt-right.  It is a cancer that will infect the body and take it down.  The same can be said of the alt-left and the "legitimate" left;  whether they realize it now or later is beside the point.  The point now is to save the good name of conservatism,  and that will require the firm rejection of racism and extremism.  Will it require the rejection of Trump himself?    That is the $64,000 question,  and one that I believe will be answered sooner rather than later. 

« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 12:42:05 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline dfwgator

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I do too, especially the memorials honoring common soldiers.   But the world changed this week, and we all have to be careful of the company we keep.   The cause of preserving the memory of the Confederate dead may have been a noble one, but an alliance with Nazis and white supremacists has made the cause toxic.   Just as Dylan Roof's murderous rampage led to the consignment of the stars and bars to the dustbin,  so will the actions of one idiot self-styled Nazi in a car accelerate the removal of those statues to Southern memory. 

Straight out of the Alinsky playbook.....we got played


Alinsky biographer, Sanford D. Horwitt provides an anecdote using precisely this same diabolical tactic to deceive the people.  From Horwitt's Let Them Call Me Rebel:

"...in the spring of 1972, at Tulane University...students asked Alinsky to help plan a protest of a scheduled speech by George H. W. Bush, then U.S. representative to the United Nations - a speech likely to include a defense of the Nixon administration's Vietnam War policies.  The students told Alinsky they were thinking about picketing or disrupting Bush's address.  That's the wrong approach, he rejoined, not very creative - and besides causing a disruption might get them thrown out of school.  He told them, instead, to go to hear the speech dressed as members of the Ku Klux Klan, and whenever Bush said something in defense of the Vietnam War, they should cheer and wave placards reading, ‘The KKK supports Bush.'  And that is what they did, with very successful, attention-getting results."

 

Offline Restored

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I do too, especially the memorials honoring common soldiers.   But the world changed this week, and we all have to be careful of the company we keep.   The cause of preserving the memory of the Confederate dead may have been a noble one, but an alliance with Nazis and white supremacists has made the cause toxic.   Just as Dylan Roof's murderous rampage led to the consignment of the stars and bars to the dustbin,  so will the actions of one idiot in a car will accelerate the removal of those statues to Southern memory.

The statues are not the cause so blaming them is just a senseless gesture by the Left. Instead, we end up looking like the Taliban, destroying monuments and art because we don't like the message. We will be burning books soon.

The right cannot be associated with the alt-right.  It is a cancer that will infect the body and take it down.  The same can be said of the alt-left and the "legitimate" left;  whether they realize it now is beside the point.  The point now is to save the good name of conservatism,  and that will require the firm rejection of racism and extremism.  Will it require rejection of Trump himself?    That is the $64,000 question,  and one that I believe will be answered sooner rather than later.

We don't get to decide how we are depicted. The left-wing media will perform that task and we get no say in the matter.

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Offline Jazzhead

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The statues are not the cause so blaming them is just a senseless gesture by the Left. Instead, we end up looking like the Taliban, destroying monuments and art because we don't like the message. We will be burning books soon.

No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right".   It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right. 

Quote
We don't get to decide how we are depicted. The left-wing media will perform that task and we get no say in the matter.

Oh, don't be so passive.   Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands.   REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation.   Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.   
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Offline Restored

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The statues will be sacrificed because we ALLOW the alt-right to use them. They existed for decades without any problem. Then the media and the Democrats decide to go after them. 350 "alt-right" people show up and conservatives start flinging in the towel when there were thousands of violent alt-left people there. First, it was buildings, then statues, then parks, then artwork, then books. We will start holding book burnings and the passive conservatives will be saying "Well, I don't want to be associated with the boogeyman than the media has created by opposing it". Where have we seen this before?

You are letting the media create the strawman that is going to take away your speech rights. There is a guy somewhere whose life is a living Hell because someone said he was at the rally and he wasn't even there. The Antifa guessed his identity incorrectly and it went viral. Why do we have to go through this? Why will stand against the alt-left? The alt-right crowd is not the problem. They are a small fringe group. The alt-left group has massive numbers and they have been rioting for over a year now.
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Offline driftdiver

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No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right".   It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right. 

Oh, don't be so passive.   Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands.   REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation.   Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.   

@Jazzhead
Reject the nazis?  Everyone has already rejected the nazis.  Its stupid to expect another "rejection" is any more meaningful then the other hundred which have previously been uttered.

The left seeks to define the narrative.  YOU have already surrender your fate to them by playing their game.  There is nothing conservatives can do that will ever be enough to placate the left.

BTW, the Nazis are socialists which is LEFT.
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Offline Crazieman

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No, but the statues will be sacrificed because a bunch of alt-right creeps used them as an excuse to march to "Unite the Right".   It is well past time to reject these fools - THAT's how you unite the right. 

Oh, don't be so passive.   Our fate, our reputations, is in our hands.   REJECT the alt-right, without equivocation.   Yes, there are fascists on both sides - our job is to reject the fascists that infect ours.   
Careful study of "The enemy of my enemy" reveals plenty of results on this board.
The numbers of dead will speak for themselves.
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Your racist accusations are invalid.

Start thinking Constitutionally and stop thinking in groups.

Offline Jazzhead

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@Jazzhead
Reject the nazis? 

No, I said reject the alt-right - the white nationalists.   They've already done too much damage.   
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Online Bigun

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No, I said reject the alt-right - the white nationalists.   They've already done too much damage.

Whether you like it or not EVERYONE has a right to peacefully assemble in this country and no one has the right to wantonly disrupt that meeting!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline Restored

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Note: That statues were coming down before we even knew of the existence of people like Vanguard. They were reacting to the statues coming down. They were coming down because the media wants to show that they can get them torn down. It's part of their desire to be "Kingmaker".

You'll notice the media is complaining that Trump did not speak the words they wanted him to speak. It was a setup. He condemned the violence and then they attacked. If you excuse or justify violence, you become part of the violence. No one is trying to justify or excuse the Nazis. But there are hordes of people excusing the violence by the alt-left. We have seen this before.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:38:06 pm by Restored »
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Offline Restored

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Whether you like it or not EVERYONE has a right to peacefully assemble in this country and no one has the right to wantonly disrupt that meeting!

That is true in theory but not in practice and you certainly don't get to pick any place you want. I was in a fraternity. We got turned down frequently for outdoor and indoor events. The police can and do wantonly disrupt your meeting at any time. You can't even assemble without a permit.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Whether you like it or not EVERYONE has a right to peacefully assemble in this country and no one has the right to wantonly disrupt that meeting!

And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car.   Will the alt-left kill some day?  No doubt.  But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.   
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car.   Will the alt-left kill some day?  No doubt.  But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.

The alt-left already has killed. The baseball game thing. Have we all forgotten about that?

And the Dallas shootings.

Offline jpsb

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Will the alt-left kill some day?

You have got to be kidding the alt left has done far more killing that the alt right.

Offline driftdiver

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And no one has the right to run down demonstrators with a car.   Will the alt-left kill some day?  No doubt.  But this weekend, it was the alt-right that killed.

@Jazzhead
You equate the alt-right with the nazi's as does most of those on the left.    The guy who drive the car wasn't alt-right, he was a nazi

Peaceful assembly does not involve murder or riots.    Many people have died as a result of your leftist riots over the last few years, they just haven't been run down by cars yet.
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Offline Restored

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You'll remember that Trump already condemned the Neo-Nazis. The fact people are calling on him to do what he already did,  shows they have another purpose in mind.
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Offline driftdiver

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No, I said reject the alt-right - the white nationalists.   They've already done too much damage.

@Jazzhead
The white nationalists haven't done any damage.  They have an unpopular message and have connected themselves with openly racists groups.  What damage have they done?   

The antifa have done damage
The nazi's have done damage
The white separatists have done damage
The black separatists have done damage
The BLM have done significant damage
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Offline driftdiver

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You have got to be kidding the alt left has done far more killing that the alt right.
@jpsb
Hell the left has claimed they have the right to shoot cops and white people.
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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@Jazzhead
The white nationalists haven't done any damage.  They have an unpopular message and have connected themselves with openly racists groups.  What damage have they done?   

You really are stupid aren't you? Have you been watching the news?

Offline Hoodat

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Straight out of the Alinsky playbook.....we got played

@dfwgator

You got that right.  And with these new details coming out, it is clear that Gov. McAuliffe had a crucial role in orchestrating the whole thing.


http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/16/an-exclusive-look-at-how-virginia-police-emptied-emancipation-park/
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