Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 32246 times)

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Offline edpc

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It gets lost in the story because of what happened and who did it, but Antifa is the real problem. They never have rallies or demonstrations to bring attention to an issue. Their sole purpose is to disrupt, provoke, and incite at events.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline kevindavis

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According to Charles Gasparino, a source tells him Bannon is a goner. Steve Deace retweeted the quote.

I've wondered if Bannon was counseling Trump on this, and other staffers convinced him Bannon was wrong---and that he should make a new statement.


If true, look for Breitbart to go after Trump.
"If we die, we want people to accept it. We're in a risky business, and we hope that if anything happens to us it will not delay the program. The conquest of space is worth the risk of life."

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Offline edpc

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The first statement was an infield hit. Today he hit one over the center field fence.

Honestly, my only problem with the first statement was the departure into employment numbers. I found that irrelevant, distracting, and tone deaf to the situation.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Wars are fought for economic reasons. That there is nothing in the USC about seceding reserves the right.

Amendment 10:

 :shrug:

Tell it to people in the 1860's. They fought a war over it. The South lost.

Try it again and the same thing will happen.  :seeya:

Offline Sanguine

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"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline TomSea

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Now, let me get this straight, the master negotiator was out maneuvered by Turkey? Turkey?

Offline dfwgator

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It gets lost in the story because of what happened and who did it, but Antifa is the real problem. They never have rallies or demonstrations to bring attention to an issue. Their sole purpose is to disrupt, provoke, and incite at events.

The vast majority of the sheeple don't even know that Antifas even exist.

Offline Applewood

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I posted this on another thread. History of the term alt right:


I wonder if anyone ever stopped to consider that the term alt right wasn't in use anywhere in the media in 2015 and early 2016? And that originally, alternative right was a term used by Steve Bannon to describe a new breed of young republican as apposed to the old guard.

It had nothing to do with race until the left appropriated it to mean anything from racist to anti Semitic, nationalist, white supremacist etc.


And republicans just meekly accept the theft of language to be used by the left as a political bludgeon. Welcome to PC hell, folks.

If I remember my history correctly (probably not), the KKK was once comprised of Democrats.  The Democrats managed to distance themselves from the present day Klan.  So now it seems the Klan and others like them are trying to rebrand as Republicans and/or conservatives.  That must be the story perpetrated by lefty media such as MSNBC because I have liberal friends who are fans of MSNBC and others like them and they keep telling me that these Klan/neo-Nazi/white supremacist groups are conservative or Republican.  It's exhausting to try to explain to my loved ones that they are being fed a line of BS by dishonest lefty media.  These hateful people do not represent me anymore than BLM represents every black person.

Offline ABX

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If I remember my history correctly (probably not), the KKK was once comprised of Democrats.  The Democrats managed to distance themselves from the present day Klan.  So now it seems the Klan and others like them are trying to rebrand as Republicans and/or conservatives.  That must be the story perpetrated by lefty media such as MSNBC because I have liberal friends who are fans of MSNBC and others like them and they keep telling me that these Klan/neo-Nazi/white supremacist groups are conservative or Republican.  It's exhausting to try to explain to my loved ones that they are being fed a line of BS by dishonest lefty media.  These hateful people do not represent me anymore than BLM represents every black person.

And Buckley in the 60s successfully purged the KKK/Neo-Confederate/WN types from the Republican party.

I do find the timing interesting, if not simply coincidence, that when Buckley died in 2008 we started seeing the resurgence of some of these types of groups latching on to the right, and as one pointed out upthread, the root of 'alt-right' can be traced to 2008.

At that, it almost seems the death of Buckley was a symbolic point that saw a major shift in the Republican party and those speaking for us. Kind of like it seemed the Clinton Impeachment changed how Democrats acted.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 01:30:02 PM by AbaraXas »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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And Buckley in the 60s successfully purged the KKK/Neo-Confederate/WN types from the Republican party.

I do find the timing interesting, if not simply coincidence, that when Buckley died in 2008 we started seeing the resurgence of some of these types of groups latching on to the right, and as one pointed out upthread, the root of 'alt-right' can be traced to 2008.

I can remember when "open borders" was just the default conservative position.

I also remember when free trade was a conservative position as well.

Then they let the rubes in.

Offline dfwgator

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I can remember when "open borders" was just the default conservative position.

I also remember when free trade was a conservative position as well.

Then they let the rubes in.

It's also when the Democratic Party went way to the Left.

Offline TomSea

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Now, let me get this straight, the master negotiator was out maneuvered by Turkey? Turkey?

Offline dfwgator

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I can remember when "open borders" was just the default conservative position.

I also remember when free trade was a conservative position as well.

Then they let the rubes in.

Then we saw the consequences of those positions.

Offline Smokin Joe

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I'm going to throw a big old bone in the "refight the War" pot.

The constitution of the confederacy mandated that all confederate states honor the institution of "negro slavery".  Any states accepted into the confederacy after the fact must become slave states.  They did not allow states to choose. 

Remember also, that confederate leaders also had plans to go into Cuba and Latin America in order to expand slavery. 

Hard to argue it as a "states rights" issue.
States could choose to become part of the Confederacy or not. No one put a gun to their heads.

At its core, forced manumission was an economic sanction. The Northerners who ran the shipping companies which imported the slaves had made their money already. Nothing like selling a product and passing a law against it.
Even worse was the idea of literally dumping a huge population of people who had no education on a region, but some interests have been exploiting that group ever since.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline kevindavis

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And Buckley in the 60s successfully purged the KKK/Neo-Confederate/WN types from the Republican party.

I do find the timing interesting, if not simply coincidence, that when Buckley died in 2008 we started seeing the resurgence of some of these types of groups latching on to the right, and as one pointed out upthread, the root of 'alt-right' can be traced to 2008.

At that, it almost seems the death of Buckley was a symbolic point that saw a major shift in the Republican party and those speaking for us. Kind of like it seemed the Clinton Impeachment changed how Democrats acted.


I think it was after the 04 elections when the root of 'alt-right' started to latch on. Remember the Minutemen Group?
"If we die, we want people to accept it. We're in a risky business, and we hope that if anything happens to us it will not delay the program. The conquest of space is worth the risk of life."

Gus Grissom

Offline edpc

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I want to read what Buckley did; respectfully, I'm not just going to take at face value all that is said in this forum.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/13/william-f-buckley-civil-rights-215129

I don't know about the 'southern strategy' for Nixon.  Wallace won 5 states in 1968.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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If I remember my history correctly (probably not), the KKK was once comprised of Democrats. 
Of course it was. After the War, the only Republicans down South were invaders. That old Klan was the shadow government which ran what the Yankees, Carpetbaggers, and Scalywags did not.
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The Democrats managed to distance themselves from the present day Klan. 
As has been pointed out, the Klan just after the War was a vigilante group, but not so much a 'hate' group. That part starts in the 1900s. Similarly, the Democrat Party changed to a largely Marxist organization in the 1960s with the advent of The New Left (if the 1930s didn't foreshadow that).
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So now it seems the Klan and others like them are trying to rebrand as Republicans and/or conservatives.
They aren't Marxists, and in the world of media driven false dichotomies, that leaves the GOP. The media have been calling Republicans Nazis (recall "BushHitler" memes?), perhaps because the 'Nazis' are an enemy the Marxists can understand.
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  That must be the story perpetrated by lefty media such as MSNBC because I have liberal friends who are fans of MSNBC and others like them and they keep telling me that these Klan/neo-Nazi/white supremacist groups are conservative or Republican.
  The media have been trying (along with groups like the SPLC) to lump everyone from the Young Republicans to the NRA to Right to Life folks and Stormfront all together in a tidy little package to hate for a very long time. It was Federal 'investigation' that led to the Ruby Ridge incident when Randy Weaver would not act as an informant on his separatist neighbors (GHWB), despite entrapment over gun charges being used as leverage by the Feds. The whole incident on the ridge was over charges of "Failure to appear" on a warrant where the date had been moved up and Weaver was notified of a different date. 
The attempt to conflate people who love Jesus (and even Jews) who own firearms, revere the Constitution, believe in the Rule of Law, and the Bill of Rights with the KKK and NeoNazis has been going on a long time, but so has the media foisted ignorance of the groups involved, smeared with disinformation campaigns by the media to remove the very great distinctions.
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  It's exhausting to try to explain to my loved ones that they are being fed a line of BS by dishonest lefty media.  These hateful people do not represent me anymore than BLM represents every black person.
Point out to your relatives the spectrum on the Left from the Communists to Antifa to BLM to PETA and the Sierra Club (I know, it's hard to find a Leftist group who aren't Communists at their core) and ask them if they think everyone over there shares anything but a disdain for the Constitution and the Rule of Law.  The media present two dimensional false dichotomies for a reason. People are more complicated than that.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 02:31:37 PM by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.




Offline Smokin Joe

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:shrug:

Tell it to people in the 1860's. They fought a war over it. The South lost.

Try it again and the same thing will happen.  :seeya:
You are being disingenuous. You think that slavery wasn't an economic issue?

Not only did slaves represent a huge investment, but they made both cotton and tobacco agriculture work.

Those were the big cash crops that drove the Southern economy, and were ready export crops. In other words, not only the economy of the South, but a great deal of the export economy depended on those hands picking cotton or stripping tobacco.
That economy was great enough the North threatened it, then seized it by force of arms when it threatened to go away.

Otherwise, the Yankees had a slave-free country just by letting go. 

Tell farmers today you are going to take away their tractors and see if they won't shoot your ass to keep them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Silver Pines

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FR already is.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3577045/posts

@AbaraXas

Wow.  One of them pointed out his new tag line condemning 5 Democratic presidents----Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump.

I doubt JimRob will zot anyone.  He likely realizes now that he has to hang onto every donor he has.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Tell farmers today you are going to take away their tractors and see if they won't shoot your ass to keep them.

 :huh?:

Who wants to take away farmer's tractors? I wouldn't support that in any circumstance.

Offline edpc

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FR already is.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3577045/posts

I see the 'it was a setup by Soros' crowd is present there.   For a group of people that decry victimhood so much, they sure spend a lot of time blaming that old man for their woes.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline ABX

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I see the 'it was a setup by Soros' crowd is present there.   For a group of people that decry victimhood so much, they sure spend a lot of time blaming that old man for their woes.

It is hilarious how the completely try to deny that there could be anyone negative on the side they like (and if they are it was an 'obvious plant'), yet there are other posts from FReepers who said they attended.


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