Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 32366 times)

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Or we could look back at the Trump campaign and see the slurs against HRC......

Slurs against Hillary Rodham Clinton???  What slurs?
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Suppressed

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Offline Cripplecreek

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Lots of mixed messages. Trump is a fairly strong Israel supporter, and so is Steve Bannon. Hard to figure out.

Trump and Bannon are strong supporters of anything advantageous to themselves. Both men seem to love surrounding themselves with alt right antisemites.

From what I'm seeing it looks like most "conservatives" are sympathizers.

Nothing should make a man happier than knowing his government couldn't care less about him.
I'd rather lose defending the constitution than win at its expense.
Hitlers are born and die every day without notice. Its the morons who put them in power that are dangerous.
You don't escape guilt by declaring that you have no choice.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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You cut the quote too soon.

No, not really.  The rest of the list has been disproven ages ago.  Claiming that candidate Trump slurred Clinton , well, this is new.  At least in the public forum.   
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline edpc

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@edpc

Sure you can. Marriage doesn't turn you into a slave,even if it seems that way. You may still be LEGALLY married,but there is no law requiring you to live with your spouse,and I am betting a good lawyer that wasn't afraid of being murdered by divorce lawyers could make and win a case that it is un-constitutional for one marriage partner to refuse to allow the other marriage partner a divorce because that amounts to slavery.

You're conveniently leaving out the part where I said you couldn't do it without consequence.  Unless you have a prenup, 50% of your assets belong to the spouse.  If children are involved, you're responsible for support.  Since you'd still be legally married, you'd be punished for bigamy if you entered another.  In that era, there were consequences for adultery, as well.  The union wasn't set up like a marriage under sharia law where you could say 'I divorce thee' three times and be done with it.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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Trump and Bannon are strong supporters of anything advantageous to themselves. Both men seem to love surrounding themselves with alt right antisemites.

From what I'm seeing it looks like most "conservatives" are sympathizers.

I'm still trying to figure out if that is true or not.  What "alt-right antisemites"?
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Offline Cripplecreek

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I'm still trying to figure out if that is true or not.  What "alt-right antisemites"?

If you haven't figured it out yet consider yourself among their sympathizers and put me on ignore.

Nothing should make a man happier than knowing his government couldn't care less about him.
I'd rather lose defending the constitution than win at its expense.
Hitlers are born and die every day without notice. Its the morons who put them in power that are dangerous.
You don't escape guilt by declaring that you have no choice.
Lese-majeste is my middle name

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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It's a strange world isn't it?  The group that is particularly anti-cop was allowed to attack the other group, who I assume is fairly anti-cop, but by default rather than plan.  Three opposing groups.
From this article today, it appears the lawful assembly was shut down prior to it formally was to begin, yet an unlawful assembly was allowed to proceed two hours after the streets were ordered to be cleared.

Smells very fishy here.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/is_virginia_governor_terry_mcauliffe_culpable_in_charlottesville_riot_.html
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Offline Restored

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The same alt.left fascists were attacking the police at the previous rally. If the death had not happened, I bet they would have attacked the police again. Ironic that the police were protecting their attackers.
Hahahahaha....No seriously. Who is the President?

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Interesting example.  When you're married and things go badly, one partner just can't say 'OK, we're divorced' and walk away without consequence.  Especially if it's contested by the other.
Of course one person does not need the consent of the other to divorce.  Of course it is not as easy if they both do not agree.

@sneakypete 's example of divorce is as good a synopsis of secession in this country as any.
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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  The idea a group of people can be subjugated because of their supposed natural inferiority is absurd and obscene.  Quit defending the indefensible.
Your moral horse is riding pretty high, isn't it?

You are taking what @sneakypete said (which happens to be factually true) and twisted it to somehow claim he is defending slavery.

You should be working for CNN or MSNBC.  You have your agenda, and just need to find ways to proclaim it.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 09:23:46 AM by IsailedawayfromFR »
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Offline Hoodat

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Yeah, right.  The Constitution is an agreement amongst equals and does not contain a secession clause.

@Oceander

As has been pointed out to you already, the Constitution also does not contain a right-to-vote clause.  According to your logic, anyone voting is in open rebellion against the Constitution.

If the Constitution was intended to legally bind States under it's rule for eternity, then it would have stated as such.  Similar language can be found in the Articles of Confederation, but was pointedly removed from our Constitution.  It was done so for a reason, so that States would not be bound for eternity, but would always retain their right to self-determination above and beyond the power of the remaining States.


The Declaration of Independence came before the Constitution, not after, so the Constitution trumps the Declaraton.

The Declaration of Independence is a treatise of intent.  It demonstrates that our Founding Fathers believed that each colony should not forcibly be bound by government rule, but should have the right to self-determination.  That right did not die when the Constitution was ratified, given the only constraint being that each state have a republican form of government.


Union was a one-way door

Your basis?  Simply repeating the claim does not make it true.

(See:  Logical fallacy - begging the question)


The only way out with honor is with the consent of the other states - a so-called Velvet Revolution

Again, your basis.


otherwise, it's just a violent rebellion.

Ah, violent.  Funny you should add that qualifier, because in the case of the Commonwealth of Virginia, the only violence that ensued was when it was invaded without provocation by a hostile army from the North.


There is no right, legal or moral, to unilaterally secede from the Union. 

Yet Virginia was allowed to secede from the Articles of Confederation.  Go figure.

Again, you have zero legal basis for your claim.   None.  Zip.  Nada.  And the fact that you falsely portray it as such removes any claims of morality upon it.  Moral right?  Seriously?  That's funny.

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline edpc

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Your moral horse is riding pretty high, isn't it?

If you read that speech and don't find it the least bit troubling, your moral horse should be in a glue bottle.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Hoodat

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I have Bing. :)

Ditto.   Google is the devil.  Any time I hear someone say "Hey Google", I tell them to ask Google what Bing would say.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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If you read that speech and don't find it the least bit troubling, your moral horse should be in a glue bottle.
Thanks, CNN.

You made my point.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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@Oceander

As has been pointed out to you already, the Constitution also does not contain a right-to-vote clause.  According to your logic, anyone voting is in open rebellion against the Constitution.

If the Constitution was intended to legally bind States under it's rule for eternity, then it would have stated as such.  Similar language can be found in the Articles of Confederation, but was pointedly removed from our Constitution.  It was done so for a reason, so that States would not be bound for eternity, but would always retain their right to self-determination above and beyond the power of the remaining States.


The Declaration of Independence is a treatise of intent.  It demonstrates that our Founding Fathers believed that each colony should not forcibly be bound by government rule, but should have the right to self-determination.  That right did not die when the Constitution was ratified, given the only constraint being that each state have a republican form of government.


Your basis?  Simply repeating the claim does not make it true.

(See:  Logical fallacy - begging the question)


Again, your basis.


Ah, violent.  Funny you should add that qualifier, because in the case of the Commonwealth of Virginia, the only violence that ensued was when it was invaded without provocation by a hostile army from the North.


Yet Virginia was allowed to secede from the Articles of Confederation.  Go figure.

Again, you have zero legal basis for your claim.   None.  Zip.  Nada.  And the fact that you falsely portray it as such removes any claims of morality upon it.  Moral right?  Seriously?  That's funny.

Do states have a right to secede?

Do counties have a right to secede from states?

Do towns have a right to secede from counties?

Do neighborhoods have a right to secede from towns?

Do individuals have a right to secede from towns?

We can play this game all day if you want to.

Offline TomSea

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Now, a mayor in KY. wants to remove statues in his town.

Some have floated that this could be a 'honeypot operation', I don't buy that but these jokers, the Klan and Neo-Nazi types, do more damage to the cause than liberals, anarchists could ever do, at least in the span of a few days in regards to these statues and heritage.

Again, following the Seattle story, that Joey Gibson organizer, doesn't allow these types to participate in events he puts on.  No Nazi flags, nothing like that from what I can tell.

Offline sneakypete

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From this article today, it appears the lawful assembly was shut down prior to it formally was to begin, yet an unlawful assembly was allowed to proceed two hours after the streets were ordered to be cleared.

Smells very fishy here.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/08/is_virginia_governor_terry_mcauliffe_culpable_in_charlottesville_riot_.html

@IsailedawayfromFR

Not for Charlottesville and UVA it isn't. Might as well be "Berkley East".

The cops there do what their bosses tell them to do,just like the cops everywhere else,and the Mayor,city council,and the police chief are  all left-wing whackjobs.
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Schlapp repeatedly pressed Cuomo to “name the crime” that would be listed on the articles of impeachment for President Donald Trump. “There’s no need for a crime,” Cuomo responded.

Offline sneakypete

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Trump and Bannon are strong supporters of anything advantageous to themselves. Both men seem to love surrounding themselves with alt right antisemites.

From what I'm seeing it looks like most "conservatives" are sympathizers.

@Cripplecreek

That's because you are a Dim in Republican clothing. You think anyone that doesn't have a Che tattoo is a Nazi. Like all the rest of your kind,you don't think,you "feel".

Calling someone an idiot that accuses a man with Jewish children and grandchildren an "anti-Semite" is almost bragging on them.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Schlapp repeatedly pressed Cuomo to “name the crime” that would be listed on the articles of impeachment for President Donald Trump. “There’s no need for a crime,” Cuomo responded.

Offline Hoodat

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Do states have a right to secede?

Yes.  (See:  Amendment X)


Do counties have a right to secede from states?

Not without the consent of that State's legislature as well as the consent of Congress.  (See:  Article 4, Sec 3)


Do towns have a right to secede from counties?

In some states, yes.  Virginia being one.  It depends on each state's law.


Do neighborhoods have a right to secede from towns?

In some states, yes.  It depends on each state's law.


Do individuals have a right to secede from towns?

Individuals are not land.  They are not part of towns.


We can play this game all day if you want to.

I'm not the one here playing the game.  I am asking for someone to cite the legal basis prohibiting a state from seceding.  So far, no one has stepped to the plate.  Instead, I get these silly ladder analogies like the one you gave that are not only full of holes, but is completely devoid of any legal foundation.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline sneakypete

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Quote
You're conveniently leaving out the part where I said you couldn't do it without consequence.

You can't get up and go to the bathroom without possible consequences. You might miss a tornado warning or some other announcement you might have needed or wanted to hear. Virtually EVERY decision you make in life has consequences.

However,it's not likely any of them will involve being invaded by a foreign army. Which,after succession,describes the Union Army.


 
Quote
Unless you have a prenup, 50% of your assets belong to the spouse.


The Articles of Confederation amount to a prenup.

 
Quote
If children are involved, you're responsible for support.  Since you'd still be legally married, you'd be punished for bigamy if you entered another.  In that era, there were consequences for adultery, as well.  The union wasn't set up like a marriage under sharia law where you could say 'I divorce thee' three times and be done with it.

You are determined to stretch this thing out to impossible limits in your effort to "prove" you are right,aren't  you?

Nation States,which is what the original 13 Colonies were,and by extension is/was also true for any states joining the Union afterwards, don't have children and they don''t have to ask for permission that was already granted when they signed to document forming the union.

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Schlapp repeatedly pressed Cuomo to “name the crime” that would be listed on the articles of impeachment for President Donald Trump. “There’s no need for a crime,” Cuomo responded.

Offline sneakypete

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If you haven't figured it out yet consider yourself among their sympathizers and put me on ignore.

@Cripplecreek

What,and not be able to laugh at you?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Schlapp repeatedly pressed Cuomo to “name the crime” that would be listed on the articles of impeachment for President Donald Trump. “There’s no need for a crime,” Cuomo responded.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Yes.  (See:  Amendment X)

Apparently not, since a war was fought. Face the facts: there's nothing in the USC about seceding.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Individuals are not land.  They are not part of towns.

Really? So I can secede my property from my town and declare myself ruler of WeirdTolkienishFiguresville? Not pay any local taxes! Sweet!

Offline driftdiver

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Trump and Bannon are strong supporters of anything advantageous to themselves. Both men seem to love surrounding themselves with alt right antisemites.

From what I'm seeing it looks like most "conservatives" are sympathizers.

@Cripplecreek

I know you're from Michigan but cmon man.   Trump was successful in NYC.   He knows how to work the system there.   There are a lot of jewish people in a lot of influential positions there.  You cannot get a big project done there if you do not work well with jewish people.   Its ridiculous.
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