Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 32905 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Here is what Andrew Jackson said about succession.


But each State having expressly parted with so many powers as to constitute jointly with the other States a single nation, cannot from that period possess any right to secede, because such secession does not break a league, but destroys the unity of a nation, and any injury to that unity is not only a breach which would result from the contravention of a compact, but it is an offense against the whole Union.  To say that any State may at pleasure secede from the Union, is to say that the United States are not a nation because it would be a solecism to contend that any part of a nation might dissolve its connection with the other parts, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offense. Secession, like any other revolutionary act, may be morally justified by the extremity of oppression; but to call it a constitutional right, is confounding the meaning of terms, and can only be done through gross error, or to deceive those who are willing to assert a right, but would pause before they made a revolution, or incur the penalties consequent upon a failure
@kevindavis

I don't give a rabid rats ass what Andrew Jackson said about it. What matters is what was in the Articles of Confederacy that the original 13 states agreed to and signed in agreement with.

It was a VOLUNTARY union. Look up the definition of the word "voluntary" when you have the time.
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Offline sneakypete

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Probably the best photo from yesterday. 



@AbaraXas

Is that camera in the center of his chest typical of what cops wear today?

I ask because it seems kind of big to me.
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Offline sneakypete

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I especially liked the film clip where one of them was punching a girl.

@Hoodat

I saw that too. It was aired several times. If I were that guy, would have put her lights out. First of all,she looked to be bigger than him,and secondly,she threw the first punch. When you throw the first punch,you have nothing to bitch about when a few come back your way.

And truth to tell,it looked to me like almost all of the guys were punching like girls. Never seen such a pack of wusses all in one place in my entire life.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 09:10:33 PM by sneakypete »
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Wingnut

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@

Is that camera in the center of his chest typical of what cops wear today?

I ask because it seems kind of big to me.

Why would AbaraXas know. He ain't a cop.

Offline sneakypete

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Why would AbaraXas know. He ain't a cop.

@Wingnut

I was just guessing he lives in a city like most people,and is more familiar with what equipment city cops carry than I am.

It's not important,anyway. Just something I was curious about.
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Offline ABX

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@AbaraXas

Is that camera in the center of his chest typical of what cops wear today?

I ask because it seems kind of big to me.

Yep. I'm sure most of the size is for batteries and memory.  I've seen smaller ones, but it seems those would have short battery life. 

The one in that pic seems to be common from other images I'm finding.


Offline ABX

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@Wingnut

I was just guessing he lives in a city like most people,and is more familiar with what equipment city cops carry than I am.

It's not important,anyway. Just something I was curious about.
Sorry.  Fitting Cops with Cams are all the rage now.  That's how they found out why Mohamed Noor shot Justine Damond

Offline edpc

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What matters is what was in the Articles of Confederacy that the original 13 states agreed to and signed in agreement with.

It was a VOLUNTARY union. Look up the definition of the word "voluntary" when you have the time.

Small problem.  They volunteered to enter the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, key words being perpetual union.  Later, that was superseded by the US Constitution, which they ratified, and had an Article 1 Section 10 stating -

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Sorry.  Fitting Cops with Cams are all the rage now.  That's how they found out why Mohamed Noor shot Justine Damond
I was out for a bit. What happened there?
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Offline bigheadfred

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Sorry.  Fitting Cops with Cams are all the rage now.  That's how they found out why Mohamed Noor shot Justine Damond

oh wingy that person you named=another, killed me   :laugh:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Small problem.  They volunteered to enter the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union, key words being perpetual union.  Later, that was superseded by the US Constitution, which they ratified, and had an Article 1 Section 10 stating -

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
I still fail to see where that precludes an exit--at which point the State would be free to do as its people please. They just would not be one of the United States any more.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.


Offline Smokin Joe

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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline EC

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@EC

That's probably true of people and governments all over the world. Human nature is human nature.

@sneakypete

Yep, my friend. People are people, and the one universal truth of people is anything they organise, no matter how noble or inspiring, eventually becomes evil.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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@sneakypete

Yep, my friend. People are people, and the one universal truth of people is anything they organise, no matter how noble or inspiring, eventually becomes evil.

I wouldn't go that far, but I certainly think Lord Acton's maxim still hold plenty of water.


Offline edpc

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I still fail to see where that precludes an exit--at which point the State would be free to do as its people please. They just would not be one of the United States any more.

OK...that's the point of the forum...having discourse.  Just pointing out reasons why secession may have been null.  I was a navy brat - born in Florida, lived in Puerto Rico, and grew up in Maryland, living in Kansas.  My parents were raised in Virginia and Connecticut.  I'm basically the man from nowhere, with no dog in the fight.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Fishrrman

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edpc wrote above (quoting the Declaration):
"Except the Confederacy didn't believe in this part....
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."


The same guy who wrote those lines above, also wrote these lines below:
====================
"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate, than that these people are to be free; nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion have drawn indelible lines of distinction between them."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Offline edpc

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edpc wrote above (quoting the Declaration):
"Except the Confederacy didn't believe in this part....
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."


The same guy who wrote those lines above, also wrote these lines below:
====================
"Nothing is more certainly written in the book of fate, than that these people are to be free; nor is it less certain that the two races, equally free, cannot live in the same government. Nature, habit, opinion have drawn indelible lines of distinction between them."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Yes, but we endeavor to reach beyond the hypocrisy of some founders and realize the potential of the words, instead of succumbing to the cornerstone of the confederacy, as Alexander Stephens described it.

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Seeing some of the comments on the videos is highly disturbing to me. Cheering on running someone over with a car? These are supposed "conservatives"?

Wingnut

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Seeing some of the comments on the videos is highly disturbing to me. Cheering on running someone over with a car? These are supposed "conservatives"?

I felt sorry for the car.


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I felt sorry for the car.

Moron ruined his car, his life, and ended someone else's life. In a split second decision. Could have been hanging out with a girlfriend, or hanging at the beach.

We all have choices.

Offline dfwgator

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Moron ruined his car, his life, and ended someone else's life. In a split second decision. Could have been hanging out with a girlfriend, or hanging at the beach.

We all have choices.

 Could have been hanging out with a girlfriend

Or a boyfriend,   you know those Nazis and their tendency to be latent homosexuals.


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