Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 32394 times)

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Offline bigheadfred

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The Democratic mayor of Charlottesville, Va., Michael Signer, is pinning blame directly on President Trump for the white nationalist protest and related violence that occurred in his city this weekend.

I bet this guy is a master at picking corn out of his shit.

I am reminded (don't know why) of the story of Anwar Sadat raising the price of their flat bread from one piaster to two. Then he went on vacay. He was standing on his villa balcony and asked what all the smoke in the city was from?

The entire country is tearing everything apart looking for your head.

He promptly lowered the price of bread.

Offline ABX

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It's a shame 'we've' given them a target.

...for it's a mere hop, skip and jump to Conservative media.

They had a right to be heard.  Especially, since they had obtained the necessary civic permits.

The problem here is the constant associating 'we' with any of this. This isn't an 'us versus them' game and if you don't like Antifa/BLM you must support the other side, or vice versa. The same with the monument issue. Just because X groups supports keeping it up does not mean you have to be in any associated or even feel the need to defend them.

The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

And to even take sides because one side got the crowns permission to protest on the crown's land and the other didn't?  That doesn't make either group worthy of defending or standing up for in any way.

There is no we in any of those groups yesterday. (at least I hope not)
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 06:02:35 PM by AbaraXas »

Offline Sanguine

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The problem here is the constant associating 'we' with any of this. This isn't an 'us versus them' game and if you don't like Antifa/BLM you must support the other side, or vice versa. The same with the monument issue. Just because X groups supports keeping it up does not mean you have to be in any associated or even feel the need to defend them.

The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

And to even take sides because one side got the crowns permission to protest on the crown's land and the other didn't?  That doesn't make either group worthy of defending or standing up for in any way.

 goopo
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Offline bigheadfred

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The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

This.

A peek into my worldiew:

There is only ONE race on the planet that matters.

The Human Race. I admit it does take some practice to fully be one. So practice being a human being every day.

I see a whole bunch of amateurs out there pretending. They are--wearisome.

Offline txradioguy

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The problem here is the constant associating 'we' with any of this. This isn't an 'us versus them' game and if you don't like Antifa/BLM you must support the other side, or vice versa. The same with the monument issue. Just because X groups supports keeping it up does not mean you have to be in any associated or even feel the need to defend them.

The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

And to even take sides because one side got the crowns permission to protest on the crown's land and the other didn't?  That doesn't make either group worthy of defending or standing up for in any way.

There is no we in any of those groups yesterday. (at least I hope not)

QFT

Best lost of the the discussion by far.
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Offline mystery-ak

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The problem here is the constant associating 'we' with any of this. This isn't an 'us versus them' game and if you don't like Antifa/BLM you must support the other side, or vice versa. The same with the monument issue. Just because X groups supports keeping it up does not mean you have to be in any associated or even feel the need to defend them.

The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

And to even take sides because one side got the crowns permission to protest on the crown's land and the other didn't?  That doesn't make either group worthy of defending or standing up for in any way.

There is no we in any of those groups yesterday. (at least I hope not)

Exactly what I am thinking..we said.
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Offline Restored

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Hahahahaha....No seriously. Who is the President?

Oceander

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Actually, I thought the 'opt out' clause had been settled long before the events of 1860.
to wit:  & c.

Yeah, right.  The Constitution is an agreement amongst equals and does not contain a secession clause.  So, if a state tries to leave without the consent of the others, it continues to act honorably and satisfy its obligations, which means it remains subject to federal law - it voluntarily agreed that federal law was the supreme law of the land - or it doesn't, in which case it consists of nothing more than dishonorable welches and mooches who won't live up to their obligations. 

The Declaration of Independence came before the Constitution, not after, so the Constitution trumps the Declaraton. 

In other words, if you want to secede, you can be a steer, or you can be a queer, but those are your only two choices if you wish to secede. 

Offline edpc

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Kessler gives press conference today saying what occurred yesterday was the responsibility of police not doing their job.  Not long after, he gets swarmed, accosted, chased, and tackled before police intervened.  Way to give him credibility.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online Smokin Joe

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The problem here is the constant associating 'we' with any of this. This isn't an 'us versus them' game and if you don't like Antifa/BLM you must support the other side, or vice versa. The same with the monument issue. Just because X groups supports keeping it up does not mean you have to be in any associated or even feel the need to defend them.

The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

And to even take sides because one side got the crowns permission to protest on the crown's land and the other didn't?  That doesn't make either group worthy of defending or standing up for in any way.

There is no we in any of those groups yesterday. (at least I hope not)
While I fully agree, the MSM has been pushing the "us vs them" false dichotomy for a long time.

"You are with us or against us"

"If you don't vote for X, it's a vote for Y."

You either support ______ or you are a "Hater".

No middle ground is to be tolerated in the polarization of America, and the two sides (because the Media will not acknowledge nor intellectually tolerate any more than that) will be characterized by the worst or best elements, depending on how the Media want to spin the story.

The Fourth Estate has become the Fifth Column.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Wingnut

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Rally organizer punched as news conference devolves into chaos
Staff Reports 1 hr ago




A planned news conference by Jason Kessler, organizer of the white nationalist Unite the Right rally, dissolved into chaos as an angry mob c

Look at all the pretty flowers! 

Online Smokin Joe

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Yeah, right.  The Constitution is an agreement amongst equals and does not contain a secession clause.  So, if a state tries to leave without the consent of the others, it continues to act honorably and satisfy its obligations, which means it remains subject to federal law - it voluntarily agreed that federal law was the supreme law of the land - or it doesn't, in which case it consists of nothing more than dishonorable welches and mooches who won't live up to their obligations. 

The Declaration of Independence came before the Constitution, not after, so the Constitution trumps the Declaraton. 


The Declaration laid out the fundamental bases for the later agreement. The concept of unalienable rights endowed by our Creator, and the Right to throw off the bonds of government which no longer served the ends of protecting those rights. At that point, there was no power justly derived from the consent of the governed: the governed did not consent any longer. The very fundamental logic of throwing off the British Monarchy is just as valid in the negation of any other compact.
Quote
In other words, if you want to secede, you can be a steer, or you can be a queer, but those are your only two choices if you wish to secede.
Aside from the obvious and egregious insult to hundreds of thousands who gave their lives in the pursuit of defending their homeland after the Secession, you can tell that to California (where you will find both steers and bleep), because they are on their way to lighting that bonfire again.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline edpc

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Look at all the pretty flowers!



He got tackled by a girl!

Obvious caption, here but I'll let you do it, so I don't get banned.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline ABX

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While I fully agree, the MSM has been pushing the "us vs them" false dichotomy for a long time.

"You are with us or against us"

"If you don't vote for X, it's a vote for Y."

You either support ______ or you are a "Hater".

No middle ground is to be tolerated in the polarization of America, and the two sides (because the Media will not acknowledge nor intellectually tolerate any more than that) will be characterized by the worst or best elements, depending on how the Media want to spin the story.

The Fourth Estate has become the Fifth Column.


I wasn't even realy referencing the 'media' in who is pushing the us versus them element. There are many factions that push this, not to mention, just group peer pressure to take sides. It is also part of our nature to see things in such a dichotomy.

We (and in this case i do mean we, as in the people here and those who think like we do), need to see this for what it is, an attack on individuality and liberty by many forces that want to divide all of us for their own purposes. Individualism and liberty mean less control for the powerful. No, I'm not talking about some big Buildacheeseburger conspiracy to control and enslave people, but the very common action of anyone or group in or or who desires power. The easy way is to get their 'team' rallying to them by creating an enemy.

The way I see it, this is a battle that this country was founded on, liberty versus collectivism. All of these groups, be it BLM, Alt-Right, Antifa, DNC, etc, all desire their own tribe to control, their own collectivism. They want their big central authority to control others and tell others what to do.

Just like in the 1930s Germany when the Communists and Fascists clashed for power. Neither side represented Liberty and people then would have been best served to stand together against both of them versus siding up with one or the other against the opposite side.


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He got tackled by a girl!

Obvious caption, here but I'll let you do it, so I don't get banned.

The comment above, apparently missed:  Kessler just proved his point the cops were complicit in the violence yesterday, by allowing this today.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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He got tackled by a girl!

Obvious caption, here but I'll let you do it, so I don't get banned.

As Neil Young once said..... Four dead in Ohio...

Oceander

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The Declaration laid out the fundamental bases for the later agreement. The concept of unalienable rights endowed by our Creator, and the Right to throw off the bonds of government which no longer served the ends of protecting those rights. At that point, there was no power justly derived from the consent of the governed: the governed did not consent any longer. The very fundamental logic of throwing off the British Monarchy is just as valid in the negation of any other compact. Aside from the obvious and egregious insult to hundreds of thousands who gave their lives in the pursuit of defending their homeland after the Secession, you can tell that to California (where you will find both steers and bleep), because they are on their way to lighting that bonfire again.

Union was a one-way door, and the Declaration of Independence doesn't cut it because the colonies weren't cutting loose from an agreement they voluntarily entered into. 

The only way out with honor is with the consent of the other states - a so-called Velvet Revolution - otherwise, it's just a violent rebellion.

Sometimes that's what it takes, but don't fool yourself into thinking you can slap some lipstick on that pig and call it anything else. 

There is no right, legal or moral, to unilaterally secede from the Union. 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 07:11:08 PM by Oceander »

Offline Cripplecreek

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Union was a one-way door, and the Declaration of Independence doesn't cut it because the colonies weren't cutting loose from an agreement they voluntarily entered into. 

The only way out with honor is with the consent of the other states - a so-called Velvet Revolution - otherwise, it's just a violent rebellion.

Sometimes that's what it takes, but don't fool yourself into thinking you can slap some lipstick on that pig and call it anything else. 

There is no right, legal or moral, to unilaterally secede from the Union.

Its almost as hard to get in as it is to get out. It also requires everybody else to vote.

Nothing should make a man happier than knowing his government couldn't care less about him.
I'd rather lose defending the constitution than win at its expense.
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Offline ABX

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Union was a one-way door, and the Declaration of Independence doesn't cut it because the colonies weren't cutting loose from an agreement they voluntarily entered into. 

The only way out with honor is with the consent of the other states - a so-called Velvet Revolution - otherwise, it's just a violent rebellion.

Sometimes that's what it takes, but don't fool yourself into thinking you can slap some lipstick on that pig and call it anything else. 

There is no right, legal or moral, to unilaterally secede from the Union.

There is the often not mentioned document in these discussions, The Articles of Confederation.

Offline don-o

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The problem here is the constant associating 'we' with any of this. This isn't an 'us versus them' game and if you don't like Antifa/BLM you must support the other side, or vice versa. The same with the monument issue. Just because X groups supports keeping it up does not mean you have to be in any associated or even feel the need to defend them.

The way I see it, all of those groups have nothing to do with myself or any of my beliefs and they can all pound sand for all I care.

And to even take sides because one side got the crowns permission to protest on the crown's land and the other didn't?  That doesn't make either group worthy of defending or standing up for in any way.

There is no we in any of those groups yesterday. (at least I hope not)

Principles, not personalities...not even loathesome personalities and political positions

I expect statists to blithely ignore the First Amendment as exigent circumstances arise. After all, "some animals are more equal that others." - /G. Orwell

I do not march to that drumbeat.




Offline ABX

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Another video of the car ramming the protestors. Warning, very graphic which is why I'm not embedding it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcKpsM1zi1g
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 07:58:55 PM by AbaraXas »

HonestJohn

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I like this one.

Same.

Remember when people used to say that the only good Nazi was a dead one?

Now they claim the mantle of Trump's base.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:08:11 PM by HonestJohn »

Offline edpc

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Another video of the car ramming the protestors. Warning, very graphic which is why I'm not embedding it.

The lady who was in between the black truck and the driver's car when he backed up is lucky to have survived.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Union was a one-way door, and the Declaration of Independence doesn't cut it because the colonies weren't cutting loose from an agreement they voluntarily entered into. 

The only way out with honor is with the consent of the other states - a so-called Velvet Revolution - otherwise, it's just a violent rebellion.

Sometimes that's what it takes, but don't fool yourself into thinking you can slap some lipstick on that pig and call it anything else. 

There is no right, legal or moral, to unilaterally secede from the Union.
All those assertions you claim seem so certain the way you state them, yet that is all they are, assertions/opinions/manure.

Point to the place in the Constitution that backup those arguments.  You cannot as it does not exist.
Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets


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