Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 70717 times)

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Offline DCPatriot

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From our good friend, Clarice Feldman:

Quote

As abhorrent as we might find some who allied with the Alt-right in Charlottesville, the videos and reliable accounts of the riot, show they had a permit to demonstrate and were doing so peacefully until the police funneled them into the hands of the Antifa gang who started to attack them. Looks like once again, the right to peacefully assemble is available to only one side, and the media is happy to play along,
If you thought the ACLU was right when they obtained an order for Nazis to march thru Skokie, why do you look the other way when they are being beaten up with police connivance in Charlottesville?



http://www.facebook.com/clarice.feldman?hc_ref=ARRyXrJLo1LGKIN-gRMmpOWey44o_nCLbBNYsYOE7N5PMJrCcdmeshfXh4EkzP48zLs&fref=nf

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Offline aligncare

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But it seems that he was there:



Note that this picture was taken with a bright flash.

Agree, second photo settles the issue. But, can anybody explain the oddity of the first picture? That temple clearly crosses the edge of his ear.

Offline edpc

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Ed, any idea what the symbol on the shields means?

They're crossed axes, often associated with white supremacy.   The first time I saw them, I thought they were rolling pins which was hilarious to me. An army of bakers?
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline TomSea

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Whether I agree with the sign of not per above; supposedly we have a right to free speech. The left says some very nasty things but it is their right.

From Richard Spencer being punched two times on camera I understand, to the flame thrower, and on and on, provocation needs to be recognized and it is on both sides.

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  The first time I saw them, I thought they were rolling pins which was hilarious to me. An army of bakers?

Glad it wasn't just me!  lol

Offline Sanguine

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...
To me the weird part is why some ugly guy would want to identify as an ugly woman. Queen of the howler monkeys or something...

Because they are deeply and pathologically unhappy with who they are and "if only they could be someone/something else" everything would be fine.

Offline Smokin Joe

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They're crossed axes, often associated with white supremacy.   The first time I saw them, I thought they were rolling pins which was hilarious to me. An army of bakers?
Not just axes, but fasces, a Roman symbol of power later used as a symbol of fascism.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ABX

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Not just axes, but fasces, a Roman symbol of power later used as a symbol of fascism.

Yep, Fasces which is where the word Fascism comes from.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:28:24 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline edpc

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Whether I agree with the sign of not per above; supposedly we have a right to free speech. The left says some very nasty things but it is their right.

From Richard Spencer being punched two times on camera I understand, to the flame thrower, and on and on, provocation needs to be recognized and it is on both sides.

One of these times, the aerosol can will literally blow up in their face, as it did to this kid in England who did it as a prank.


I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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OK, got it now.  I thought I had seen that symbol before.



Quote
Fasces (/ˈfæsiːz/, (Italian: Fasci, Latin pronunciation: [ˈfa.skeːs], a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle")[1] is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces had its origin in the Etruscan civilization, and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction. The image has survived in the modern world as a representation of magisterial or collective power. The fasces frequently occurs as a charge in heraldry, it is present on an older design of the Mercury dime and behind the podium in the United States House of Representatives, it is used as the symbol of a number of Italian syndicalist groups, including the Unione Sindacale Italiana, and it was the origin of the name of the National Fascist Party in Italy (from which the term fascism is derived).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

Offline Smokin Joe

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Whether I agree with the sign of not per above; supposedly we have a right to free speech. The left says some very nasty things but it is their right.

From Richard Spencer being punched two times on camera I understand, to the flame thrower, and on and on, provocation needs to be recognized and it is on both sides.
Who has the 'right' to invade a permitted assembly and incite and engage in violent behaviour?
The people in that assembly had a permit to be there, the "counter-protestors" did not. Punching someone is not "provocation": the word you are looking for is "assault".

I'm not defending the actions nor beliefs of either group, but the one group had jumped through the hoops necessary to conduct a lawful and peaceful protest. The other attacked them.

If Antifa and Co. had attacked the Daughters of the Confederacy at that venue would you see it the same way? Or the DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution)? 
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:32:51 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline endicom

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Ed, any idea what the symbol on the shields means?


I'll be damned. Vanguard America is a 'fascist' organization that really is fascist.

"Vanguard America stands indomitably opposed to the tyranny of globalism and capitalism, a system under which nations are stripped of their heritage and their people are turned into nothing more than units of cheap, expendable labor."

https://bloodandsoil.org/manifesto/

@Sanguine
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:32:09 pm by endicom »

Wingnut

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One of these times, the aerosol can will literally blow up in their face, as it did to this kid in England who did it as a prank.



Hope his eyebrows grow back.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:32:38 pm by Wingnut »

Offline edpc

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Not just axes, but fasces, a Roman symbol of power later used as a symbol of fascism.

Yes – and unfortunately, we use a variation of that with arrows surrounded by bundles, instead of axes.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline edpc

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Hope his eyebrows grow back.

According to the story at the picture source, he put out the fire by rolling in a puddle outside of a pub. Probably a puddle of 'patron recycled ale' and vomit.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 08:41:39 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline endicom

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Yes – and unfortunately, we use a variation of that with arrows surrounded by bundles, instead of axes.


And we have a Senate. Every modern nation has elements of Rome.

Offline edpc

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I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline ABX

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Offline Applewood

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From our good friend, Clarice Feldman:

http://www.facebook.com/clarice.feldman?hc_ref=ARRyXrJLo1LGKIN-gRMmpOWey44o_nCLbBNYsYOE7N5PMJrCcdmeshfXh4EkzP48zLs&fref=nf

Sorry, but I don't know Clarice Feldman and I don't trust social media as a reliable source of information.  

Besides, I see she has a video from Infowars posted on her page.  Anything from Infowars sets off an alarm in me.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 09:33:38 pm by Applewood »

Offline ABX

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Sorry, but I don't know Clarice Feldman and I don't trust social media as a reliable source of information. 

Besides, I see she has a video from Infowars posted on her page.  Anything from Infowars sets off an alarm in me.

Oh good grief, she is pushing the 'crisis actor' angle.

Online Hoodat

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Rally organizer punched as news conference devolves into chaos
Staff Reports 1 hr ago




A planned news conference by Jason Kessler, organizer of the white nationalist Unite the Right rally, dissolved into chaos as an angry mob chased him from in front of City Hall on the Downtown Mall.

After attempting to make remarks that were drowned out by a chanting crowd, Kessler was whisked away by authorities into the Charlottesville Police Department building.

Several in the crowd approached Kessler as he was speaking and shoved him before he was punched. He then fled on foot, led by Charlottesville police.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/newsvirginian/news/local/rally-organizer-punched-as-news-conference-devolves-into-chaos/article_917b64d0-8063-11e7-9023-732e158fd8dc.html



Let's see.  Charlottesville cop standing right there, yet no one was arrested for assault and battery.  Go figure.
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Offline DCPatriot

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It's a shame 'we've' given them a target.

...for it's a mere hop, skip and jump to Conservative media.

They had a right to be heard.  Especially, since they had obtained the necessary civic permits.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Online Hoodat

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A local editorial from the News-Virginian



EDITORIAL: And already, the blame game begins


The violence we witnessed in Charlottesville on Saturday is as heart-wrenching as it is senseless.

As horrifying as the death and mayhem experienced by our neighbor to the east is, however, we must not allow knee-jerk rhetoric and accusations to rule our response to the violence.

That’s much easier said than done, of course. Less than an hour after a car plowed through a crowd of counter-protesters to the alt-right rally in Charlottesville on Saturday, social media was abuzz with finger-pointing.

Here’s a sampling of the commentary, found in less than two minutes, on Facebook and Twitter Saturday afternoon.

“Conservatives knew this would happen. They wanted it to happen.”

“This is all on Trump and his Rambo-on-steroids rhetoric.”

“Obama started it with all his race-baiting rhetoric.”

“Liberal radicals are more violent than the right ever was.”

All this before the name of the driver was even released. Before anyone knew his motivation or his politics. Before anyone had an idea even if it had anything to do with the protests and counter-protests taking place in Charlottesville at the time.

The fact is the fault for Saturday’s violence lies with the people who committed it, no matter which side they’re on. Neither President Trump nor Barack Obama drove that car into a crowd of people.

Liberals and conservatives both have been guilty of volatile rhetoric, that much is true. And unfortunately, rhetoric sometimes spurs dangerous or unstable people to act violently.

But for anyone — politician or anonymous social media poster alike — to start throwing around accusations with no proof (and often without any idea what they’re talking about) is stupid, counter-productive and an example of the continuing erosion of our social discourse.

We can say without hesitation that anyone espousing hate, bigotry and malice towards a group of people based on the color of their skin, the God they worship, the country they were born in, or the person they fall in love with, is wrong, and we reject it.

But we also reject the idea that anyone who opposes affirmative action, for instance, or gay marriage, or uncapped immigration is automatically a racist, a homophobe or a bigot.

It’s important, for the sake of our country and for the sake of civil society, that we listen to those we disagree with most vehemently — and that they listen back.

Those found to be responsible for the acts of violence on Saturday should be held accountable, and hate, in all its forms, should be denounced.

But so should hair-trigger accusations of hate and blame.

President Trump got it right, mostly, in his initial response to Saturday's violence.

“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides," Trump said. "It has been going on for a long time in our country — not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America."

We would have liked to hear Trump denounce the hateful speech, and clearly racist philosophy of the white nationalists whose rally was the  flash point for Saturday's protests and counter-protests (which is NOT the same as saying that group is to blame for Saturday's violence. As of this writing, we don't yet know who is responsible.) Just as we would have expected the president to denounce the calls last year by black radicals to kill police officers. Hatred and calls for violence, whoever it involves, must be denounced.

But Trump is right in that both hatred and violence come from many sides — and have no place in our nation.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/newsvirginian/opinion/editorials/editorial-and-already-the-blame-game-begins/article_374e5fca-7fbf-11e7-be52-b75c446cd8a8.html
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-