Author Topic: The battle of Charlottesville: A continuing discussion thread about the War between the States  (Read 32848 times)

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Offline dfwgator

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Not a chance. There will  be too much media attention focused on him for the sheriffs department to take any chances. That goober is going into the locked room in the closest state mental institution or prison,and he's going to be watched 24/7.
 

I'm just saying, if there's a chance that any 'inconvenient facts' may come to light during the trial.......

Offline Sanguine

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Though she didn't directly say it, the group Unite The Right had the permit.  They were protesting the planned removal of the Robert E. Lee statue in Emancipation Park.  They petitioned to have the protest there because it's the location of the monument and until recently, the area was called Robert E. Lee Park.

OK, that helps.  It's beginning to make sense. 

Next question is about the group "Unite the Right".  Were they just formed for this protest?  What is/was their mission?  Do they share members with the KKK or any other "white power" groups?  Or, were they a convenient excuse for those groups to piggyback onto?  I don't know, but I'm very uncomfortable with the media/left complex labeling this as a "white nationalist" thing when it may have not started that way and excuses the other groups who bear some responsibility.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:17:08 PM by Sanguine »
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”
– Sam Houston

Offline Hoodat

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My mother told me that one Friday night the Klan showed up on horseback with their robes and burning torches,and called the old man and girls out into the yard and told him "We have heard you are not sending these girls to school or treating them right. This stops now. The next time we hear this we are going to come back,tie you t that tree on the corner of your yard,and horsewhip you until my arm is tired.",and left.

My mother told me they never again had a minute of trouble from that old man right up to the day he died.


Interesting.  This would explain your sympathy for the KKK.  I've heard the same stories from my Florida relatives.  However, that in no way absolves the Klan for their detestable history.


Yes,they did lynch some blacks.

Some?  Don't try to minimize it.  Lynching one was too many.


The reason they did was because in some areas the appointed sheriffs would refuse to arrest blacks that abused whites,and either the Klan hanged the rapists and murderers,or they went unpunished.

Bullshit.  They lynched blacks because they could, regardless of whatever trumped up charge they could come up with.  And any sheriff refusing to arrest an accused rapist or murderer would find a noose around his neck as well.  Do you really deep down believe this lie you are peddling?

It's all about fear, power, and scapegoating a group of people.


Things didn't really get rolling downhill until the Kennedy Klan took over control of the feral goobermint in the early 60's. By the late 50's most Klan groups were under the direction of FBI/Justice Dept informants,and that was when the stuff like bombing black churches started happening. Think about this for a minute,do you REALLY believe that "Gawd-fearing!" southern citizens in the freaking Bible Belt would actually bomb churches?

Let me get this right.  You are seriously suggesting that the FBI/Justice Department - not the Klan - was responsible for the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in 1963?  Wow.  Just wow.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:19:22 PM by Hoodat »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline EC

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The original Klan came into existence because after the War of Northern Aggression ended,the typical white southerner had NO police or legal protection at all after all the sheriff,judicial,and political positions were filled with northerners who"had friends in high places". Some were radical abolitionists who really and truly hated the idea of slavery and hated all white southerners because they held them all responsible for it,but most were nothing more than common thieves whose sole focus was seizing and selling property for back taxes at unannounced sales to friends and relatives.

The woman that raised me was born in 1910. Her parents both died in the flue epidemic of 1918. She was 8,and her sister was 6. Their ancestors were Scots-Irish.

There was no such thing as a social services department back then OTHER than the KKK. They were still the shadow government during the first half of the 20th century. Anyway,what happened was the Klan knew there were two little girls that needed a home that had nowhere to live,and they also knew of a one-legged Civil War veteran that was living by himself,and needed help. So they decided the thing to do was to put them together. They took my mother and her sister over to his house and told him,and I quote my mother "Old man,these two little girls need a place to live,and you need someone to cook,clean and keep you company. We are going to leave them here to help you,and you are going to be held responsible for feeding,clothing,and sending them to school.",and left.

You know, if you change the words Klan to Cosa Nostra and northerners to aristocracy, you have the identical origin story of the Mafia.  :shrug:
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Offline Sanguine

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Here is what Andrew Jackson said about succession.


But each State having expressly parted with so many powers as to constitute jointly with the other States a single nation, cannot from that period possess any right to secede, because such secession does not break a league, but destroys the unity of a nation, and any injury to that unity is not only a breach which would result from the contravention of a compact, but it is an offense against the whole Union.  To say that any State may at pleasure secede from the Union, is to say that the United States are not a nation because it would be a solecism to contend that any part of a nation might dissolve its connection with the other parts, to their injury or ruin, without committing any offense. Secession, like any other revolutionary act, may be morally justified by the extremity of oppression; but to call it a constitutional right, is confounding the meaning of terms, and can only be done through gross error, or to deceive those who are willing to assert a right, but would pause before they made a revolution, or incur the penalties consequent upon a failure

Yeah, I've made it a lifelong habit to never quote Andy Jackson.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”
– Sam Houston

Offline edpc

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OK, that helps.  It's beginning to make sense. 

Next question is about the group "Unite the Right".  Were they just formed for this protest?  What is/was their mission?  Do they share members with the KKK or any other "white power" groups?  Or, were they a convenient excuse for those groups to piggyback onto?  I don't know, but I'm very uncomfortable with the media/left complex labeling this as a "white nationalist" thing when it may have not started that way and excuses the other groups who bear some responsibility.

Everything I've found searching for 'Unite The Right' and the leader, Jason Kessler, has been through news or opposition sources.  That said, you'll get a view of who he is and what the group stands for through that prism.   I've yet to discover anything directly from him.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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Everything I've found searching for 'Unite The Right' and the leader, Jason Kessler, has been through news or opposition sources.  That said, you'll get a view of who he is and what the group stands for through that prism.   I've yet to discover anything directly from him.

Thanks for sharing what you have found.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”
– Sam Houston

Offline jpsb

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Quote
I am telling you this because THIS is the sort of thing the KKK was organized to do. Yes,they did lynch some blacks. The reason they did was because in some areas the appointed sheriffs would refuse to arrest blacks that abused whites,and either the Klan hanged the rapists and murderers,or they went unpunished. They also hanged white rapists and murderers for the same reason,but the media will never mention this. After all,it's not like they had courtrooms and jails to try them and lock them up in.

The "modern" KKK is an entirely different organization,though. Truth to tell,it was taken over by the FBI and the alleged Justice Department starting in the late 1920's and early 1930's because the Republicans in the North saw them as a political force that would keep the Dixie-crats in power forever,and because they were extending their reach into the north with events like the KKK March on DC in the 1920's,and it had the northern elites terrified they were going to lose political power and access to the Treasury.

Things didn't really get rolling downhill until the Kennedy Klan took over control of the feral goobermint in the early 60's. By the late 50's most Klan groups were under the direction of FBI/Justice Dept informants,and that was when the stuff like bombing black churches started happening. Think about this for a minute,do you REALLY believe that "Gawd-fearing!" southern citizens in the freaking Bible Belt would actually bomb churches?

People that went to the Church of Lenin has no such moral restrictions,though,and starting with King Franklin,they started gaining political power and gaining career political positions. They,nor anyone else ever tried to screw with Hoover much because he had the dirt on EVERYBODY while he was alive,but once he died there was no one in public office really fighting the left other than McCarthy,and after seeing what the left got away with doing to him,the rest of the people inclined to oppose the left remained silent. 

Fascinating thanks for taking the time to tell that story.

Offline Hoodat

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Fascinating thanks for taking the time to tell that story.

Fascinating indeed.  It's not every day that you run into a KKK apologist.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

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Fascinating indeed.  It's not every day that you run into a KKK apologist.

I warned people prior to the election.

And like Cassandra, was scorned and ridiculed for it.

Offline Hoodat

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« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:47:06 PM by Hoodat »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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As for the Trent affair, they ran a blockade and had belligerents on board.  What else would you expect to happen?  They were sent on their way, not 'seized.'  There was no real risk of war with Britain for many reasons.
Am sorry you cannot read a history lesson, even when I spell it out for you.

The Trent did not run a blockade, but was in Spanish waters when the US aggressively seized the British vessel for inspection.

The US forcibly removed several non-British citizens onboard by declaring them 'contraband'.

There is no precedence for such an action, and most historians since that time have declared this an illegal action by the US.  It caused the British, who had declared in no uncertain terms it would not accept a forced action by the US in removal of these people, to be highly upset.

The US government was only able to pacify the British by declaring the US Navy Captain making the seizure acted without authority.  It was a certain lie and in spite of the lie, the people taken from the British ship illegally were seized and not 'sent on their way'.

You can revise the history books on saying some things, but this was indisputably a Northern Aggression.

Yearning to stay free takes place in many ways at many different times, whether by withstanding planes or bayonets

Offline Smokin Joe

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@sneakypete

I am guessing you didn't notice or didn't want to acknowledge the many pics of the idiots in robes at this rally.  I stand 100% behind every post in this thread.  I am a southern preservationist for any reasons (including my tagline), and absolutely detest the Klan and their ilk for hijacking the CBF, and creating the backlash toward icons of southern heritage.

Didn't expect an apology in any case.
While there are many pics, count them. Really, count the individuals. The line is never more than two deep, there are lots of angles, but not a lot of different faces.
It reeks of the sort of photography done with CNN setting up the Muslims protesting terrorism, another group with thin ranks well imaged to appear much more numerous.
I'd wager between neonazis and the Klan folks there were not fifty present.

There are a lot of people who would, like you or I, protest (as we are doing here) the destruction of the heritage of people who were militarily forced back into the United States. The state I came from (and in which my heritage goes back to early colonial times) was occupied for the duration and only released after it had replaced its Constitution, years after the war. My ancestors fought that like anyone who had their home overrun by invading armies would. To see that heritage besmirched by those who claim to support its preservation, and destroyed by the other side is a source of constant vexation.

Now that the issue returns to this Republic with California making secessionist noises (for more marxist motives), the question arises of whether the Union will invade and burn their cities, destroy their industry, blockade their ports, rip up their rail lines, and loot their fields like they did to the South.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline jpsb

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Fascinating indeed.  It's not every day that you run into a KKK apologist.

I do not know much about the KKK but most of what I do know is not good. But I will say reconstruction in the south was very hard on the Southerns. So I can easily image a Southern milia forming to protect Southerns from the Yankee carpetbaggers and other criminals that came south to steal what little the south still had in wealth.

I've read that there were two KKKs. The first formed after the civil war for protection and a second that formed early mid 20th century. This second KKK was motivated not for self defense but racism.

There is no doubt in my mind that both KKKs were racist organization. I can see the justification for the first KKK but not the second. As I said I am no expert so I am going can to lurk mode on all things KKK.

Offline TomSea

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I warned people prior to the election.

And like Cassandra, was scorned and ridiculed for it.

If we are talking about my friend @sneakypete , let's not forget he says he is of Native American ancestry, wholly or partially. I hope Sneakypete , you don't mind me saying this and that this is accurate. If not, my apologies.

Offline ABX

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This is the young lady killed by the terrorist in the car yesterday. Heather Heyer.





Offline edpc

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I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline dfwgator

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Yet her father couldn't bring himself to say it. (tweet it)


What's so great about being "United".     Nazi Germany was "United".  I want a country where people are free to express their views, even if I disagree.

Offline don-o

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@don-o

Do you remember when Julian Bond's girlfriend got busted for cocaine possession (with intent to distribute)?  When the investigators turned their investigation to Bond, they were promptly fired and drawn up on charges themselves.  Institutionalized corruption.

I once remember Hosea talking about how Jesse Jackson had been sent out to pick up some chicken biscuits for breakfast when King was shot.  But after he returned, he pretended that he was standing right by him when the bullets were fired and that King died in his arms.  Hosea didn't think much of Jesse.

Vague memories of Bond; but Hosea much mote memorable. Boortz had him on the radio a lot.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Oh yeah, wasn't that the zeroth amendment to the constitution, the "Opt Out Clause"?

:facepalm2:
Actually, I thought the 'opt out' clause had been settled long before the events of 1860.
to wit:
Quote
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
   We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
   That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.
2.3    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
   But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.
   Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these States. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.
& c.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.


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