Everybody Is Forgetting That Clinton Allies Did The Same Thing As Don Jr.

[DCPatriot]

That's the political response, and entirely understandable.   But it's not good to deny for months campaign contacts with Russian officials and then have this come out.   It's the cover up that'll get ya.

Is every single attorney employed by the federal government an honest-to-goodness, "Government Official"??   

[jpsb]

Federal election law makes it a felony to accept or solicit a campaign donation from a foreign national or a foreign government.   For this purpose, a donation usually consists of funneled cash, but is broadly defined as "anything of value".   

That Trump, Jr. came away empty handed doesn't change the reality that soliciting a foreign campaign donation is illegal even if the donation doesn't actually take place.  Again, the issue may come down to whether the Clinton dirt Trump, Jr. was advised that the "Russian government" might be able to provide was an expectation of getting something valuable.   His reaction to the offer - labeled as coming from the Russian government as a token of its "support" for Trump's campaign - was "I love it!"

Is opposition research something of value?   Does the answer change if the supplier of that information paid money to obtain it?    According to the FEC and this morning's WSJ, the definition "can encompass goods or services, like air travel or food, provided free or at below-market rates. Information can be a gift too, like polling data or donor lists."

Please site one instance of the courts defining political information as being the same as a donation. You can't because that would be a huge expansion of the definition of a donation. Not to mention in conflict with freedom of speech and freedom of association. In short your argument has no merit.

[driftdiver]

When the "foreign national" is an enemy of the United States on a mission to disrupt and interfere in our free elections yes. In fact it may rise to the term "treason". That's an old-fashioned term now I've heard.

So why are you only worried about the Trump?  Why aren't you screaming about Clinton and all the other politicians with deep ties to foreign nations?

[jpsb]

That's the political response, and entirely understandable.   But it's not good to deny for months campaign contacts with Russian officials and then have this come out.   It's the cover up that'll get ya.

The Russian lawyer is NOT a Russian official. She is a private citizen and has been since 2001.

[Suppressed]

The Russian lawyer is NOT a Russian official. She is a private citizen and has been since 2001.

Yes, but it was clearly presented to Junior as coming from officials.

[Suppressed]

"This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."

"If it's what you say, I love it."

[Jazzhead]

Yes, but it was clearly presented to Junior as coming from officials.

Correct - and he was eager to receive it.   That's what is so damaging. 

[skeeter]

Correct - and he was eager to receive it.   That's what is so damaging.

So sayeth the mainstream media.

In view of what is known about what Clinton has done and the complete lack of interest by both parties and the news media in it nothing could be more innocuous.

[driftdiver]

Correct - and he was eager to receive it.   That's what is so damaging.

@Jazzhead
My gosh, its damaging that a politicians would be eager to receive compromising information on their opponent during a campaign!?!!!   Yeah I bet this is the first time in history that ever happened.

good grief

[ConservativeGranny]

So why are you only worried about the Trump?  Why aren't you screaming about Clinton and all the other politicians with deep ties to foreign nations?

The Clintons have come and gone. I was very concerned about them but they are no longer in power and there was nothing I could do about it. However I expect better from a Republican or a Conservative. Doing what you have accused your enemy of doing and thinking you are winning is a foolish game. Whatever the Clintons did or did not do doesn't matter any longer. We are concerned about the President that we have now. If we have now set the bar so low that we no longer require an honorable man for POTUS what are we trying to save here? What exactly are we "winning"? You will never "MAGA" with an unethical man. It just will not happen. In fact quite the opposite. If we accept this we have become what we claim to abhor and the next president will be worse, and the one after than even more so.

In championing a man who is behaving like the Clintons isn't gaining your side anything. In fact quite the opposite.

[driftdiver]

The Clintons have come and gone. I was very concerned about them but they are no longer in power and there was nothing I could do about it. However I expect better from a Republican or a Conservative. Doing what you have accused your enemy of doing and thinking you are winning is a foolish game. Whatever the Clintons did or did not do doesn't matter any longer. We are concerned about the President that we have now. If we have now set the bar so low that we no longer require an honorable man for POTUS what are we trying to save here? What exactly are we "winning"? You will never "MAGA" with an unethical man. It just will not happen. In fact quite the opposite. If we accept this we have become what we claim to abhor and the next president will be worse, and the one after than even more so.

In championing a man who is behaving like the Clintons isn't gaining your side anything. In fact quite the opposite.

Nobody is championing Trump.  I am hoping he can pull us back from the abyss though.   Perhaps a better tactic is to help push us towards the abyss but I dont think so.   I think he needs help.

[edpc]

Federal election law makes it a felony to accept or solicit a campaign donation from a foreign national or a foreign government.   For this purpose, a donation usually consists of funneled cash, but is broadly defined as "anything of value".

Then you have to appreciate the irony.  Initially, the meeting was set to provide information about illegal contributions.  I wish they had informed authorities on this, because a couple weeks after the meeting, the Clinton/Jarrett tarmac pow wow took place.  The implications would have shut this down long ago.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
My gosh, its damaging that a politicians would be eager to receive compromising information on their opponent during a campaign!?!!!   Yeah I bet this is the first time in history that ever happened.

good grief

The problem is that he was eager to receive such information from a source claimed to be the Russian government.   The optics are that Russia was meddling in the election to help Trump (although the reality is likely that it was trying to be in a position to blackmail a Trump administration.)   The astonishing thing is that the e-mail was perfectly direct about the source of the alleged information and the motivation for providing it - and Junior eagerly sought a meeting regardless.   I'm not saying there's a crime here, just a stunning naivety on the part of this young man.  If he was merely vetting the matter, he (or Kushner or Manaforte) should have at least let Trump know that the Russians were seeking to exert influence with the campaign.   The damage Trump faces lies in the difference between the frequent denials of coordination with Russia as absurd,  and the apparent reality that Russia sought to link the campaign with its meddling.   

[skeeter]

The problem is that he was eager to receive such information from a source claimed to be the Russian government.   The optics are that Russia was meddling in the election to help Trump (although the reality is likely that it was trying to be in a position to blackmail a Trump administration.)   The astonishing thing is that the e-mail was perfectly direct about the source of the alleged information and the motivation for providing it - and Junior eagerly sought a meeting regardless.   I'm not saying there's a crime here, just a stunning naivety on the part of this young man.  If he was merely vetting the matter, he (or Kushner or Manaforte) should have at least let Trump know that the Russians were seeking to exert influence with the campaign.   The damage Trump faces lies in the difference between the frequent denials of coordination with Russia as absurd,  and the apparent reality that Russia sought to link the campaign with its meddling.   

No one is doubting the optics are poor, or being made to appear poor, but I find it ironic that Trump Jr is being flayed for being interested in HEARING information that was offered to him.

Incidentally, I doubt that even the most seasoned campaign advisor would deny a meeting under the same circumstances. It just so happens that a witch hunt developed subsequent to this meeting. I do not fault Junior much for failing to divine the future.

Compared to Hillary erasing thousands of emails under subpoena that were stored on her illegal server. The double standard is almost funny.

[Silver Pines]

The excuses and justifications are growing increasingly bizarre and erratic. I think my current favorite is 'Sure it was illegal but Jr. is just a political novice who couldn't have been expected to know what the rest of us know instinctively'. To top it off it comes in a thread asking if we have forgotten what Clinton did. Apparently Jr either did forget what Clinton did or was using her crime as a model for his own.

@Cripplecreek

If she's going to be our bar/standard for ethical behavior, or lack of it, we need to close up shop because we're done.

The truth is that Jr. is a naive, pompous fool who thought he could play with the KGB.  All he did was end up getting played.  And Putin is laughing his rear off.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

[Cripplecreek]

@Cripplecreek

If she's going to be our bar/standard for ethical behavior, or lack of it, we need to close up shop because we're done.

The truth is that Jr. is a naive, pompous fool who thought he could play with the KGB.  All he did was end up getting played.  And Putin is laughing his rear off.

Jr has openly admitted that he met with the Russians because he thought he was getting info on Clinton. He went to the meeting with every intent of breaking the law. If he had been meeting an undercover FBI agent with the intent of breaking the law he would have been arrested.

[Right_in_Virginia]

[edpc]

The problem is that he was eager to receive such information from a source claimed to be the Russian government.   The optics are that Russia was meddling in the election to help Trump.

Yes, but nobody was talking about that in early June last year.  The DNC emails weren't released until late July.  They refused Homeland and FBI assistance in ascertaining responsibility.  In late September, Hillary famously lamented 'why am I not 50 points ahead?'  The announcement about Russian involvement didn't come until early October.  At that time, all they could say was 'they were confident,' but they couldn't really prove it.  IMO, panic was setting in because the race was still close to those who had the behind the scenes data.  They needed to push the Russia narrative to open ground.

Besides, what he had been told was they had information on illegal contributions, which are serious crimes, if it had been true - not just 'political dirt.'  As it turned out, the meeting topic was adoption legislation.   Junior is only guilty of being a naïve dupe. 

[NavyCanDo]

Jr has openly admitted that he met with the Russians because he thought he was getting info on Clinton. He went to the meeting with every intent of breaking the law. If he had been meeting an undercover FBI agent with the intent of breaking the law he would have been arrested.

This is very problematic for the administration, and there very well could have been laws broken that wont escape indictment. Trump is not helping the situation with his silly tweets yet again this morning...with his Hillary was crooked too tweet.

[Silver Pines]

So why are you only worried about the Trump?  Why aren't you screaming about Clinton and all the other politicians with deep ties to foreign nations?

@driftdiver

Maybe Jeff Sessions should be asked that question.  Wasn't Trump going to prosecute her?

I don't see how Jr.'s actions fit the Constitutional definition of treason...he would have to be giving aid and comfort to a declared enemy in order to damage this country.  Clearly that isn't the case.  But it was a stupid thing to do, and it's indefensible.  It stuns me that anyone on our side is trying to make excuses for it.

[Silver Pines]

Jr has openly admitted that he met with the Russians because he thought he was getting info on Clinton. He went to the meeting with every intent of breaking the law. If he had been meeting an undercover FBI agent with the intent of breaking the law he would have been arrested.

Yes, and he changed his story three times, I think, until he knew his emails were going to be revealed. 

[edpc]

He went to the meeting with every intent of breaking the law. If he had been meeting an undercover FBI agent with the intent of breaking the law he would have been arrested.

There's only one problem with that.  In order for the conspiracy charge to stick, it has to coincide with an overt act.  Just showing up to the meeting doesn't count.  Had he accepted phony documents or made some kind of monetary/political favor offer for them, he'd be in serious trouble.  Nothing like that happened.  Instead, it was a bait and switch.

[truth_seeker]

The problem is that he was eager to receive such information from a source claimed to be the Russian government.   The optics are that Russia was meddling in the election to help Trump (although the reality is likely that it was trying to be in a position to blackmail a Trump administration.)   The astonishing thing is that the e-mail was perfectly direct about the source of the alleged information and the motivation for providing it - and Junior eagerly sought a meeting regardless.   I'm not saying there's a crime here, just a stunning naivety on the part of this young man.  If he was merely vetting the matter, he (or Kushner or Manaforte) should have at least let Trump know that the Russians were seeking to exert influence with the campaign.   The damage Trump faces lies in the difference between the frequent denials of coordination with Russia as absurd,  and the apparent reality that Russia sought to link the campaign with its meddling.   

Non-politician Don Jr., is guilty of being naïve. More savvy advisors would have kept his hands clean, instead of letting him be the person directly in the loop.

[Silver Pines]

Non-politician Don Jr., is guilty of being naïve. More savvy advisors would have kept his hands clean, instead of letting him be the person directly in the loop.

@truth_seeker


What happened to the "best people"?

Jr. is a private citizen.  He has no business meeting with Russian officials and the White House shouldn't be writing statements for him.