Author Topic: Supreme Court to hear case of baker's refusal to make wedding cake for gay couple  (Read 8727 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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There are hotels in Key West that don't allow Hetro couples.  Only gays.

IMHO that's their right.  If that's the clientele they want to cater to and they make a pile of money from it...yay for free enterprise.

It's just a shame that they people that stay at that hotel wouldn't allow a baker in Colorado the same freedom to choose that they have in Key West.
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Offline Jazzhead

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@Jazzhead
LOL yeah   So much wrong with your post but at least you've come out of the closet as an intolerant hater.

Are you suggesting I should tolerate bigotry?   
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Offline catfish1957

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Either way you get sued.   The question is which act honors God more

Nope.  IF bakery adds this to contract bill of sale, they would win in court.

* Seller is only liable for the cost of goods and services, in case of customer dissatisfaction.

___________________.  ________________________
(Signature of Customer).       (Date of Agreement)


I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Smokin Joe

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They then would sue for the cost of the wedding and destroying their lifetime of happiness.
Considering the divorce rate I'd say "lifetime of happiness" was presumptive, and predicts something not in evidence.
Anyone who would hinge the long term outcome of any long term relationship on the perception of perfection of the celebration itself is not likely to last long, much less "a lifetime" without crippling issues in the relationship.
Case dismissed.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Correct - and if the Court decides this baker's business qualifies as  public accommodation,  the result is clear - he cannot arbitrarily discriminate with respect to the services he's advertised to provide.    The baker chose to open a business that serves the public.  If his "religious" sensibilities are offended by what he chooses to do from day to day, he should find another means of making a living.

No, a court, rightly ordered, cannot violate religious liberty - An enumerated liberty which is the aegis of the entire government to protect.

To do otherwise is force under the color of law.

Offline XenaLee

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IMHO that's their right.  If that's the clientele they want to cater to and they make a pile of money from it...yay for free enterprise.

It's just a shame that they people that stay at that hotel wouldn't allow a baker in Colorado the same freedom to choose that they have in Key West.

But.... isn't that how the left always rolls.....   (ie....freedoms for me but not for thee)

As has been said zillions of times..... without double standards, the left would have no standards at all.
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Offline thackney

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Well, that's exactly why I worded my previous post the way I did.   I think the legal issue is precisely whether the baker is subject to the law proscribing arbitrary discrimination in a public accommodation.   If he's running a public accommodation, he's violated the law.  If he isn't,  then he didn't.   

I doubt "religious freedom" will be the linchpin of the SCOTUS's decision.  Rather, it will be a narrow decision regarding the status of Masterpiece Cake Shop as a public accommodation.   

I think the specialized customization of the cake is also part of the issue.  If they had purchased this:



And added their own figures or like, there would not have been an issue.

This couple tried to force a participation in an act celebrating homosexuality. 
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Offline txradioguy

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But.... isn't that how the left always rolls.....   (ie....freedoms for me but not for thee)

As has been said zillions of times..... without double standards, the left would have no standards at all.

You're exactly right!
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Smokin Joe

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May be but it's not a very Christian act to enter into a contract with the goal of producing a deliberately defective product.  Better to say no in the first place
I agree. There are certain issues of palatability and appearance inherent in accepting such a contract, and to do so and underperform on purpose would be deceptive, frankly, an insidious lie. Better to refuse.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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No, a court, rightly ordered, cannot violate religious liberty - An enumerated liberty which is the aegis of the entire government to protect.

To do otherwise is force under the color of law.
...nor prohibit the free exercise thereof. (...even if that exercise is NOT doing something.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Restored

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1. There is a liberal desire for "favored groups" to be allowed to discriminate because it is part of their nature. So how hard do you push?
2. This is not a religious issue. It's a preference against same-sex marriage, not a specific rule per se. Religious rules are not laws. For instance, prayer is school is a speech issue, not a religion issue. The media frames it as a religious issue was a way to demonize the "bad" religion.
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Offline txradioguy

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...nor prohibit the free exercise thereof. (...even if that exercise is NOT doing something.)

The same person that doesn't comprehend "...nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" doesn't understand "shall not infringe" either.

So the common theme seems to be that said person doesn't trust the individual to act responsibly or of their own accord and must have the Federal dictate and direct all parts of a person's private life.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline INVAR

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Correct - and if the Court decides this baker's business qualifies as  public accommodation,  the result is clear - he cannot arbitrarily discriminate with respect to the services he's advertised to provide.    The baker chose to open a business that serves the public.  If his "religious" sensibilities are offended by what he chooses to do from day to day, he should find another means of making a living.

All witness The Mark of the Beast.  Jazzy here promotes it in full.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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But.... isn't that how the left always rolls.....   (ie....freedoms for me but not for thee)

As has been said zillions of times..... without double standards, the left would have no standards at all.

Double standards exist on the right as well.   No one has clean hands.
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline INVAR

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So the common theme seems to be that said person doesn't trust the individual to act responsibly or of their own accord and must have the Federal dictate and direct all parts of a person's private life.

He stated numerous times that he does not want Texas-style gun culture imposed in his area, but as we see here, he insists that San Francisco-style Homosexual Culture must be imposed on us via force of law, or we get to have our livelihoods destroyed.

Double standards exist on the right as well.   No one has clean hands.

You have taken the double-standard to an entirely new level of absurdity with your posts.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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2. This is not a religious issue. It's a preference against same-sex marriage, not a specific rule per se.

I agree.  The baker is using religion as an excuse to not serve his customer,  because he was upset at the law change that permits same sex marriage.   He was a making a political statement, not a religious one. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline roamer_1

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I agree.  The baker is using religion as an excuse to not serve his customer,  because he was upset at the law change that permits same sex marriage.   He was a making a political statement, not a religious one.

Oh? And how do you tell the difference between a political position and the philosophy behind that position?
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 05:28:47 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Smokin Joe

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The same person that doesn't comprehend "...nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" doesn't understand "shall not infringe" either.

So the common theme seems to be that said person doesn't trust the individual to act responsibly or of their own accord and must have the Federal dictate and direct all parts of a person's private life.
Oh. Not upper level management, nor middle management...One of those micromanagement people...>spit!<
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline driftdiver

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Are you suggesting I should tolerate bigotry?   

@Jazzhead
You've been the only person on this thread who has displayed intolerance or bigotry.

Gods law requires marriage to be between 1 man and 1 woman.   Sexual relations are confined to marriage.   Anything outside of that model is against the rules laid out by God in Genesis and repeated up through the New Testament. 

Its hardly bigoted to say I believe in God and adhere to his law.
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Offline driftdiver

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I think the specialized customization of the cake is also part of the issue.  If they had purchased this:



And added their own figures or like, there would not have been an issue.

This couple tried to force a participation in an act celebrating homosexuality.

Not only would they be forced to make the cake, but they'd be forced to deliver it to the wedding, and most likely have their companies name associated with the event.   All kinds of implications of those actions.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Smokin Joe

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I agree.  The baker is using religion as an excuse to not serve his customer,  because he was upset at the law change that permits same sex marriage.   He was a making a political statement, not a religious one.
OBJECTION!
Statement implies a motive to the person's actions not in evidence. There is nothing to indicate the baker had emotional reactions to any law. The issue is, and has been, one of religious objection to performing a specific service adjunct to a celebration of an act the baker scripturally views as an 'abombination in the eyes of God'.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Not only would they be forced to make the cake, but they'd be forced to deliver it to the wedding, and most likely have their companies name associated with the event.   All kinds of implications of those actions.

And THAT is exactly the kind of tyranny our resident Leftist advocates for and desires.

His hatred for Conservative principles and biblical adherents has been made manifest over numerous issues - this one in particular.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

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@Jazzhead
You've been the only person on this thread who has displayed intolerance or bigotry.

Gods law requires marriage to be between 1 man and 1 woman.   Sexual relations are confined to marriage.   Anything outside of that model is against the rules laid out by God in Genesis and repeated up through the New Testament. 

Its hardly bigoted to say I believe in God and adhere to his law.

Straw man.  Of course you're not bigoted to say you believe in God and adhere to his law.  Live your own life in accordance with your conscience.  Just don't harm others in the process.  (BTW, I'm glad you've stuck with your marriage - more than a few of the Bible-believing Christians on this board have been through one or more divorces.) 

What's at stake here is the willful violation of the law against discrimination in the context of a public accommodation.   The baker said he'd supply wedding cakes to his customers.   No government hand forced him to make that promise.   Can he now arbitrarily refuse and cite religion as his excuse?   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Not only would they be forced to make the cake, but they'd be forced to deliver it to the wedding, and most likely have their companies name associated with the event.   All kinds of implications of those actions.

It's what he advertised he'd provide.   What's the big deal?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Smokin Joe

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What's at stake here is the willful violation of the law against discrimination in the context of a public accommodation.   The baker said he'd supply wedding cakes to his customers.   No government hand forced him to make that promise.   Can he now arbitrarily refuse and cite religion as his excuse?
If, by religious belief, you do not acknowledge the union of any but one man and one woman as a "marriage", then you aren't supplying a wedding cake. Besides, we never heard what sort of 'decorations' were specified on the cake, and a Christian baker might find those offensive in and of themselves.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis