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Offline truth_seeker

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Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« on: June 17, 2017, 06:18:31 pm »
Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common

By Joshua Keating  Jan. 4, 2017

The 1948 Italian election was supposed to be a nail-biter, and one with potentially major consequences in the early days of the Cold War. Back then, Italy had one of the strongest communist parties in Western Europe, which relied on Soviet financial assistance, and the Americans’ recently established Central Intelligence Agency worried that the reds were about to establish a beachhead in what a memo to the White House described as “the most ancient seat of Western culture.”

snip

A little more than two weeks until Inauguration Day, and the incoming administration continues to dismiss, even just this morning, allegations that Russia deliberately interfered in the 2016 U.S. election by hacking and leaking information from Hillary Clinton’s campaign. But interference by either Moscow or Washington in other countries’ elections isn’t unusual at all. A recent paper by Dov Levin, a postdoctoral fellow at Carnegie Mellon University’s Institute for Politics and Strategy, shows just how common it’s been.

Using declassified documents, statements by officials, and journalistic accounts, Levin has found evidence of interference by either the United States or the Soviet Union/Russia in 117 elections around the world between 1946 and 2000, or 11.3 percent of the 937 competitive national-level elections held during this period. Eighty-one of those interventions were by the U.S. while 36 were by the USSR/Russia. They happened in every region of the world, though most commonly in Europe and Latin America. The two powers tended to focus on different countries, though Italy was a favorite of both, receiving eight interventions by the U.S. and four by the Soviets.

snip

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/04/u_s_and_russian_election_meddling_is_surprisingly_common.html
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 06:25:18 pm »
The American voting public are not completely informed of this. But if they were, they would have better judgment, than some on this site to:

Swallow whole the claim that Trump had a hand in 2016 Russian interference, in the election. (The Soviets/Russians have been doing it, since 1946.)

Assuming that Russia had a preference for our election outcome, it would be logical they wanted Clinton, since they knew she was corrupt, easily purchased, etc.

Trump was an uncertainty. Countries and markets do not like uncertainty.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 06:27:47 pm »
The American voting public are not completely informed of this. But if they were, they would have better judgment, than some on this site to:

Swallow whole the claim that Trump had a hand in 2016 Russian interference, in the election. (The Soviets/Russians have been doing it, since 1946.)

Assuming that Russia had a preference for our election outcome, it would be logical they wanted Clinton, since they knew she was corrupt, easily purchased, etc.

Trump was an uncertainty. Countries and markets do not like uncertainty.



Actually, what Putin wants from the US is paralysis, because then he can continue to do what he wants in places like Ukraine unimpeded, and even last fall it was a damned good bet that having Trump as president would paralyze the US, as it has nearly done. 

Offline EC

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2017, 06:28:47 pm »
Assuming that Russia had a preference for our election outcome, it would be logical they wanted Clinton, since they knew she was corrupt, easily purchased, etc.

Trump was an uncertainty. Countries and markets do not like uncertainty.

What I've said since the "scandal" started. Clinton is readily blackmailable, Trump less so (no one in the public eye is unblackmailable).

However -

The Russians really don't care one way or another WHO has the power. They care that the power is not able to be USED effectively.  :shrug:
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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2017, 06:34:25 pm »
What I've said since the "scandal" started. Clinton is readily blackmailable, Trump less so (no one in the public eye is unblackmailable).

However -

The Russians really don't care one way or another WHO has the power. They care that the power is not able to be USED effectively.  :shrug:

Exactly.  What they want is paralysis.  And right now, that is what they have. 

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2017, 06:39:04 pm »
Actually, what Putin wants from the US is paralysis, because then he can continue to do what he wants in places like Ukraine unimpeded, and even last fall it was a damned good bet that having Trump as president would paralyze the US, as it has nearly done.


"As it THE DEMOCRATS, has/ve nearly done"
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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 06:40:59 pm »
@EC @Oceander

You guys have nailed it, as usual.
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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2017, 06:42:35 pm »

"As it THE DEMOCRATS, has/ve nearly done"

Together with a sleazeball president who keeps giving them the ammunition they need to do so.  It takes two to tango and Trump keeps filling up his dance card.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2017, 06:43:40 pm »
Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common



Why yes it is.   Every News Program out of New York is an example of election meddling.   By deliberately withholding information detrimental to Democrats and by pushing fake information damaging to Republicans,  the "news"  media manipulates elections. 


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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2017, 06:45:54 pm »

So where is any case whatsoever that Trump contacted the Russians, said please interfere on my behalf, and I will help you to have your way?

The facts are what matter, but to date we hear only the accusation, unsupported.

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2017, 06:47:58 pm »
So where is any case whatsoever that Trump contacted the Russians, said please interfere on my behalf, and I will help you to have your way?

The facts are what matter, but to date we hear only the accusation, unsupported.



That doesn't have to have happened in order for the Russians to have meddled.  In fact, it would be to their benefit if it didn't happen.  They got lucky with Trump.  He is naturally creating exactly the sort of paralysis they want without him having to have agreed to anything with them. 

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2017, 06:49:28 pm »
Together with a sleazeball president who keeps giving them the ammunition they need to do so. 




Exactly.    George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to assert the economy was in shambles a year up to the election.  George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to cover up all of the very ugly ugly history of that Rat Bastard William BJ Clinton.       

If George HW Bush hadn't been such a sleazeball,   the media would not have been able to push the fake story that the economy was a wreck,  nor would they have been able to cover up all that ugly background of that  slimeball Clinton.   


And George W shouldn't have  ordered those men on that Aircraft carrier to put up that "Mission Accomplished"  banner.   He just shouldn't have done it.   If he hadn't done that,   the media wouldn't have been able to make up a mocking fake story to damage him.   


Yes,  it is all the fault of Republican Presidents that they give the media people these openings.   They should just stop making such mistakes so that the media won't attack them.   



‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2017, 06:51:33 pm »
And George W shouldn't have  ordered those men on that Aircraft carrier to put up that "Mission Accomplished"  banner.   He just shouldn't have done it.   If he hadn't done that,   the media wouldn't have been able to make up a mocking fake story to damage him.   

You bought the media spin there.

The banner was nothing to do with Bush. It was up before Bush decided to give his presser there, to celebrate completing a deployment.
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2017, 06:55:41 pm »
So where is any case whatsoever that Trump contacted the Russians, said please interfere on my behalf, and I will help you to have your way?

The facts are what matter, but to date we hear only the accusation, unsupported.


This is only a story because the f***ing bastards in New York who run the news programs have *caused*  it to become a story.   This is the power they wield,  and this is the power than needs to be seized from them and turned against them. 

We should be talking about election meddling by the New York Liberal Democrat controlled media system.   We should be talking about smashing this election meddling machine ran by Democrats. 


The Root of this nation's problems is the election meddling in which the media has been engaged since at least the Nixon/Kennedy election. 


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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2017, 06:57:59 pm »
You bought the media spin there.

The banner was nothing to do with Bush. It was up before Bush decided to give his presser there, to celebrate completing a deployment.


No!  You don't say?   You mean the media just made up that whole thing and it had nothing at all to do with the President's actions at the time?   


Why i'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!   


It's almost as if the media can create completely fake "news"  stories out of nothing.  (Russian meddling in the election.)   


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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2017, 07:32:14 pm »

This is only a story because the f***ing bastards in New York who run the news programs have *caused*  it to become a story.   This is the power they wield,  and this is the power than needs to be seized from them and turned against them. 

Agreed. And I think I heard previously anti-Trump Mark Levin, scolding other Republicans for not speaking up.

The drama unfolding appears to be the GOP stands by quietly, leaving it entirely for Trump to defend himself.

You know, the GOP "establishment" which is part of the Swamp Trump stated he wanted to drain?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2017, 07:36:41 pm »

Exactly.    George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to assert the economy was in shambles a year up to the election.  George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to cover up all of the very ugly ugly history of that Rat Bastard William BJ Clinton.       

If George HW Bush hadn't been such a sleazeball,   the media would not have been able to push the fake story that the economy was a wreck,  nor would they have been able to cover up all that ugly background of that  slimeball Clinton.   


And George W shouldn't have  ordered those men on that Aircraft carrier to put up that "Mission Accomplished"  banner.   He just shouldn't have done it.   If he hadn't done that,   the media wouldn't have been able to make up a mocking fake story to damage him.   


Yes,  it is all the fault of Republican Presidents that they give the media people these openings.   They should just stop making such mistakes so that the media won't attack them.   





Well, we certainly agree that Trump is a sleazeball. 

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2017, 07:46:22 pm »
Agreed. And I think I heard previously anti-Trump Mark Levin, scolding other Republicans for not speaking up.

The drama unfolding appears to be the GOP stands by quietly, leaving it entirely for Trump to defend himself.

You know, the GOP "establishment" which is part of the Swamp Trump stated he wanted to drain?


Yes,  it's Washington D.C. and New York Media vs. Trump.   


I am beginning to think not even Trump realized till now what sort of giant he was poking at.   


The New York Media and the "Establishment"   are members of the same social group.   


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline endicom

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2017, 08:22:08 pm »
Exactly.  What they want is paralysis.  And right now, that is what they have.


Nonsense.

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2017, 08:28:08 pm »

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2017, 09:09:51 pm »

Yes,  it's Washington D.C. and New York Media vs. Trump.   


I am beginning to think not even Trump realized till now what sort of giant he was poking at.   


The New York Media and the "Establishment"   are members of the same social group.
BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media. He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 09:10:25 pm by jmyrlefuller »
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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2017, 09:10:40 pm »
BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media. He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.

:thumbsup:

Offline Hondo69

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2017, 08:26:42 am »
Ask Bernie Sanders supporters about election meddling.  Ron Paul supporters would have a thing or two to add as well.

And if you count media bias you could toss in Google, Facebook, Twitter, ABC, NBC, CBS, every late night talk show host, the majority of newspapers in this country, and on and on.

Hardly a level playing field.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2017, 11:08:58 am »
If I could interrupt the Trump bashing for a moment, I'd like to remind people that two Democrat administrations have unabashedly meddled in international elections.  Both Presidents Clinton and Obama wanted PM Netanyahu to lose so each could usher in his vision of peace in the Middle East.

Clinton was successful in 1999 (thanks in large part to James Carville) and Obama failed by the skin of his teeth in 2015.  Just something to remember---for the hypocrisy factor.

Now, back to Trump bashing.   


« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 11:10:33 am by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline Rivergirl

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Re: Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2017, 11:51:19 am »
From personal experience.
Working at the polling place in our town.   When we opened the machine first thing in the morning there were already votes in the machine.     WE REMOVED those votes and set the count to ZERO.
Next personal experience.    The counting of the votes MUST be open and not behind closed doors.  As a credentialed representative of the state's newspaper I was denied admission to the room where the votes were being counted.  The workers locked the doors and counted the votes in secret.
Anyone believe these are isolated instances are living in denial.
In another case the machine switched the votes from one candidate to another.  The machine had to be shut down until someone from the country could adjust the machine.