Otto Warmbier: American student freed by North Korea back on US soil

[Gefn]

I'm so grateful my dad was called/drafted  to Europe after VE Day. Otherwise he would have been sent to Japan. And most likely not come home.

[GourmetDan]

Most people have no idea, how serious WWII was for America. Like 16 million people in uniform. Like food, rubber, gasoline rationing, blackouts and curfews, because there was justifiable fear of attacks along the Pacific coast by the Japs.

The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon coast.

Yep... caused a whole $500 in damages too...

[txradioguy]

Yep... caused a whole $500 in damages too...

Link?

[GourmetDan]

Link?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellwood_Oil_Field

[thackney]

...The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon California coast. There were huge nets to protect West coast harbors from invasion by Jap submarines sneaking in....

[skeeter]

Most people have no idea, how serious WWII was for America. Like 16 million people in uniform. Like food, rubber, gasoline rationing, blackouts and curfews, because there was justifiable fear of attacks along the Pacific coast by the Japs.

The Japs shelled onshore oil facilities at Ellwood in Santa Barbara County, somewhere along the Oregon coast. There were huge nets to protect West coast harbors from invasion by Jap submarines sneaking in.

There was little sympathy for those who were interned, and no sympathy for those killed at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, since it seemed they would go on until millions more were killed; mostly their own civilians.

They treatment by Japan, of civilian Chinese, Koreans, Filipinos, Okinawans, etc. proved beyond any doubt they were among the most evil enemies the world had known.

The Japs showed no sign they were about to surrender, on Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Instead they fought to the last man. That very fact cost many, many lives.

Okinawa had the most loss of American lives, of any Pacific theater battle. The greatest loss of lives, was at sea, from cowardly kamikaze attacks on allied Navy ships.

The original fanatical terrorists, the Japs.

You can call them enigmatic, fanatical, insane, deluded, but I don't think cowardly is an appropriate adjective for a Kamikaze.

[thackney]

Yep... caused a whole $500 in damages too...

But it caused a lot of concern/hysteria.  In fact the aftermath lead to something unexpected:

http://aoghs.org/petroleum-in-war/wwii-sub-attacks-oilfield/

Despite missing their targets, dropping into the sea, on the beach, and into nearby cliffs, the Japanese artillery shells brought dramatic results. They not only fueled West Coast invasion fears, but also soon led to the largest mass UFO sightings in U.S. history.

[driftdiver]

Many don't even know that Japan invaded America.  If they had not been stopped after a couple of Aleutian Islands, the foot hold would have grown up the chain to the mainland.

http://www.kuriositas.com/2012/11/the-forgotten-battle-japanese-invasion.html

http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/battle-of-the-aleutian-islands

@thackney
I find it fascinating (tragically) that such a small nation with so few people created such an empire over so many and such a large land mass.  They were probably outnumbered 500 to 1 and yet they were such a powerful force.

[EC]

It's called being ruthless, my friend.

That and leaving the conquered gods alone (mostly) works every time.

[thackney]

I find it fascinating (tragically) that such a small nation with so few people created such an empire over so many and such a large land mass.  They were probably outnumbered 500 to 1 and yet they were such a powerful force.

History shows it happen quite a few times.

England, Rome, etc...

[GourmetDan]

But it caused a lot of concern/hysteria.

http://aoghs.org/petroleum-in-war/wwii-sub-attacks-oilfield/

Which is more proof for my statement that the media is used to produce a desired response regardless of reality...

[driftdiver]

Which is more proof for my statement that the media is used to produce a desired response regardless of reality...

Ample proof that some peoples reality is created from tinfoil

[GourmetDan]

Ample proof that some peoples reality is created from tinfoil

Of course, we remember that the whole sensitivity to being labeled a 'conspiracy theorist' derives from CIA use of the idea to discredit anyone who questioned the official government story of the JFK assassination.

IMO, our society would be much healthier with a generous dose of skepticism toward anything 'official' from our government... any government's motivations are generally the exact opposite of a free society and its citizens...

[driftdiver]

And sometimes you're just a nut.

[GourmetDan]

And sometimes you're just a nut.

It appears that the only thing we have proved is that no proof is sufficient proof for those who demand proof...

[thackney]

Which is more proof for my statement that the media is used to produce a desired response regardless of reality...

I would say it goes to showing the validity of "eye-witness" testimony that have no real knowledge, but were there...

[driftdiver]

What proof have you posted @GourmetDan ?

[GourmetDan]

I would say it goes to showing the validity of "eye-witness" testimony that have no real knowledge, but were there...

I was referring to the big newspaper headline designed to cause a lot of concern/hysteria as you noted...

[GourmetDan]

What proof have you posted @GourmetDan ?

It appears that the only thing we have proved is that no proof is sufficient proof for those who demand proof...

[driftdiver]

@GourmetDan
Quoting yourself making a nonsensical argument is not proof.

A headline about a foreign nation shelling the coast is not hysterical.   good grief     Its pretty darn important when you don't know if an invasion fleet is 25 miles offshore.

[thackney]

I was referring to the big newspaper headline designed to cause a lot of concern/hysteria as you noted...

I would say, even in hindsight of the lousy ability to hit the target, having a sub come into firing range, continue firing for 20 minutes near a large population center (Santa Barbara), and leave unchallenged is a major concern.  It greatly needed to have the current level of protection stepped up.

[GourmetDan]

@GourmetDan
Quoting yourself making a nonsensical argument is not proof.

Neither is repeating a claim after it has been demolished a valid argument.

A headline about a foreign nation shelling the coast is not hysterical.   good grief     Its pretty darn important when you don't know if an invasion fleet is 25 miles offshore.

I wasn't the one who said an 'attack' generating $500 in damages generated a lot of concern/hysteria... but it does show the power of media to generate the desired response in a group that blindly accepts media hype...

[driftdiver]

Neither is repeating a claim after it has been demolished a valid argument.

I wasn't the one who said an 'attack' generating $500 in damages generated a lot of concern/hysteria... but it does show the power of media to generate the desired response in a group that blindly accepts media hype...

The logic you're using couldn't demolish a hot fudge sundae on a hot July afternoon.

[GourmetDan]

I would say, even in hindsight of the lousy ability to hit the target, having a sub come into firing range, continue firing for 20 minutes near a large population center (Santa Barbara), and leave unchallenged is a major concern.  It greatly needed to have the current level of protection stepped up.

Whereas now we have quite the opposite... where media covers up racial and religious violence in order not to produce a much-needed protective response by society...

Again... more proof of media manipulating the facts to produce a desired response regardless of reality...

[driftdiver]

Whereas now we have quite the opposite... where media covers up racial and religious violence in order not to produce a much-needed protective response by society...

Again... more proof of media manipulating the facts to produce a desired response regardless of reality...

@GourmetDan
Your argument might be taken more seriously if you didn't try to discount every single event thats happened in the history of the world.