Author Topic: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?  (Read 61098 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #775 on: May 19, 2017, 10:47:02 pm »
The problem is that Trump's popularity and successful election proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that not even Republicans want to correct the vile actions and consequences of LBJ's "great society."


In fact it was Liberal Republicans from the North East that caused it.    LBJ just outsmarted them.






We are in a tiny minority here, and the majority of Republicans are scoffing at us because we still believe what we believed 50 years ago.


Not the majority,  just a very powerful minority of them. 



I don't know how we right this ship with the mentality we see in Trump's supporters.....


You are worrying about Trump supporters when you should be far  more worried about Hillary supporters.    They won't go away if you manage to help them defeat Trump,   they will only get stronger. 


And they really are mentally ill. 

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #776 on: May 19, 2017, 10:48:41 pm »
That is what voters in effect, authorized. Do that, they see results, then move to other items.

Customer walks in, says I want a car. You don't veer off and try to sell them a hot air balloon, pumped full of rhetoric and philosophy.


Very aptly put.   If Trump makes some changes and people like them,  then we move in that direction.   


One of those changes better be a wall. 


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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #777 on: May 19, 2017, 10:52:40 pm »
I don't know if it's possible, given an infinite amount of time and effort.

We've reached a point where the Gibsmedat crowd can outvote the producers at will.  That's why I felt physically ill after the 2012 election, because I knew that we'd passed the tipping point where the people figured out they could just vote themselves cash from the government pot.

It's why this form of government is only workable with a moral population.  People will resist looting the treasury only if their morals prohibit theft, and there are far too many people now perfectly happy to live off the earnings of others by stealing it, using government as the agent of force.


And therein is the crux of the problem of which I don't think all of us here are aware. 


The voting system has become a tool whereby the productive are put at the mercy of the  parasite component of society,   and I think it is very unlikely that a parasite will ever consent to being removed from it's host. 


If we are to take back that which has been given to the parasites,  it will have to be done slowly and likely with as much stealth as possible. 


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Offline musiclady

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #778 on: May 19, 2017, 10:56:29 pm »

In fact it was Liberal Republicans from the North East that caused it.    LBJ just outsmarted them.

Not the majority,  just a very powerful minority of them. 

You are worrying about Trump supporters when you should be far  more worried about Hillary supporters.    They won't go away if you manage to help them defeat Trump,   they will only get stronger. 

And they really are mentally ill. 

Liberals Are An Inferno Of Flaming Crazy And We Should Pour Gasoline On The Fire

I'm talking about the Republican party, and how it no longer even pretends to be fighting gargantuan government.  I'm talking about how the Republican party establishment in solidarity with liberal Trump has stopped even trying to slow down the growth of government with its waste and corruption.

What we have now is Trump's Great Society........... and that has nothing to do with Hillary supporters.

Leftist voters have been mentally ill for a long time.

It's only recently that the same is true for a number of "Republican" voters.  And since, until a year ago, I WAS a Republican, that matters greatly to me.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:58:31 pm by musiclady »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #779 on: May 19, 2017, 10:56:32 pm »
What would that do to the detergents and no-knock additives?
I don't know, frankly. It might remove some of them, too. Maybe @thackney knows.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Mom MD

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #780 on: May 19, 2017, 10:56:51 pm »

And therein is the crux of the problem of which I don't think all of us here are aware. 


The voting system has become a tool whereby the productive are put at the mercy of the  parasite component of society,   and I think it is very unlikely that a parasite will ever consent to being removed from it's host. 


If we are to take back that which has been given to the parasites,  it will have to be done slowly and likely with as much stealth as possible.

The real problem is the goodies they vote themselves from the government comes out of the pockets of the ever dwindling producers   At some point atlas will shrug.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #781 on: May 19, 2017, 10:57:59 pm »
This is as close as I will ever get to Gucci loafers, and I thank God often for that.


Nice looking boot! (Loafers? LOL!)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #782 on: May 19, 2017, 10:58:55 pm »
Those bites are listed elsewhere on this forum. There were roughly 80 promises, some of which are a good idea, some of which are not. Unfortunately, in the midst of all the Russian kerfuffle Tillerson signed onto what amounts to a committment to the Paris Accords, and the ethanol mandate will be kept. Despite appointing an EPA chief who doesn't believe in AGW, Tillerson's actions effectively negate much of the potential progress that can be made.



I think it's too early to say this area of advancement has been lost,  but it certainly worries me that this is exactly what is the result. 





Ethanol will continue destroying small engines where people haven't figured out how to get it out of the fuel and can't get ethanol free fuel. Some form of cap and trade remains a possibility. There is little advantage to building oil pipelines when the very market comes under attack by the same administration's actions.
As far as I am concerned, Gorsuch is the salient accomplishment, and the jury is still out on how he will rule.


Ethanol is a subsidy for that  Iowa (and others) voting block.   This is another example of people voting themselves goodies.   

As for Gorsuch,  he appears to be good,   but I've been badly disappointed by Supreme Court judges before whom I thought knew better. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #783 on: May 19, 2017, 10:59:11 pm »
Screw burning our food, we're burning our alcohol!
I never drank any corn liquor smoother than a drywall rasp.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Bigun

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #784 on: May 19, 2017, 10:59:25 pm »
I have an idea.  Conservatives need to step up and start running for the local school boards, or at least pay attention to who is running.

Ensure that the next generations are taught about American history (warts and all), our Constitution and why it was written as it is and the difference between what was intended and how it is being interpreted.  Teach them the scientific method, logic, and to question and think for themselves.  Teach them truth. and fire any teachers who put politics before knowledge.  Teach them to be skeptical of the textbook/media/faceplant/etc, and look to the primary sources.  Teach them about Ponzi schemes and the history of successful government interventions into markets.

Maybe we can't elect enough Conservatives to fix this mess.  I certainly don't think we can.  But since we're living large on their money, it seems to me we owe the future generations the opportunity to do so.

 :amen:  An excellent suggestion indeed!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 10:59:42 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #785 on: May 19, 2017, 11:00:44 pm »
We need to close down the Congressional office buildings and allow for Congressional offices to be placed inside each Congressman' Congressional district, and Senate offices in their corresponding State capital.  They can use Webex to cast votes.  No more K-street.  No more influence.


Now you have mentioned an Idea I dearly love,   but I very much doubt this can be made to happen short of an Article V convention.   


Yes,  break them all up and make them stay near their constituency.   Make it far harder for people to lobby the congress and therefore game the system. 


Also we can keep a better watch on what they are doing.


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #786 on: May 19, 2017, 11:02:36 pm »

Very aptly put.   If Trump makes some changes and people like them,  then we move in that direction.   


One of those changes better be a wall.
Congress has to authorize the funding. If they did that who would watch their kids, scrub their floors and mow their lawns, make their beds? They have skin in the game.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #787 on: May 19, 2017, 11:06:48 pm »
I think it could still fly, but it has to be packaged right. It has to be sold as benefiting the minority and other communities which are the recipients, and cannot ever be allowed to be portrayed as a racial issue, because the fiscal solvency of the nation isn't a racial issue.
It doesn't matter how big the check is if the dollars aren't worth anything, and that's where we are headed if we keep printing them.


I think this is wishful thinking for two reasons;  That you think you can keep "racial"  out of it by emphasizing it isn't racial but is instead "fiscal"  and that you could even get this debate started in congress.    Any attempt to cut benefits will be accused of being "racial"  and Congress doesn't see the status quo as a problem. 




It is what makes liberal professors 'elites', there is no way universities could afford their crap otherwise. Especially by pushing the STEM aspect, an "Invest in America" campaign could take root.


Exactly the point.  We ought to be breaking up this monopoly of control on Credentials.   We should "Socialize"  (Make them live under the socialism rules they try to force on others)   the Socialists in the Universities who live like Tsars and preach to us "Peasants."   


Make them poor,  and they will acquire wisdom. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #788 on: May 19, 2017, 11:07:03 pm »
I have an idea.  Conservatives need to step up and start running for the local school boards, or at least pay attention to who is running.

Ensure that the next generations are taught about American history (warts and all), our Constitution and why it was written as it is and the difference between what was intended and how it is being interpreted.  Teach them the scientific method, logic, and to question and think for themselves.  Teach them truth. and fire any teachers who put politics before knowledge.  Teach them to be skeptical of the textbook/media/faceplant/etc, and look to the primary sources.  Teach them about Ponzi schemes and the history of successful government interventions into markets.

Maybe we can't elect enough Conservatives to fix this mess.  I certainly don't think we can.  But since we're living large on their money, it seems to me we owe the future generations the opportunity to do so.
So true. I wonder how many on school boards and such are even aware of what is in the current crop of textbooks.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #789 on: May 19, 2017, 11:09:57 pm »

I think this is wishful thinking for two reasons;  That you think you can keep "racial"  out of it by emphasizing it isn't racial but is instead "fiscal"  and that you could even get this debate started in congress.    Any attempt to cut benefits will be accused of being "racial"  and Congress doesn't see the status quo as a problem. 
That's why you have to repackage the whole thing as a 'benefit', not as a cut. Then, suddenly the whole racial component goes out the window. You could even have people on racially oriented websites complaining about another program to benefit a different demographic to help sell the idea.



Quote
Exactly the point.  We ought to be breaking up this monopoly of control on Credentials.   We should "Socialize"  (Make them live under the socialism rules they try to force on others)   the Socialists in the Universities who live like Tsars and preach to us "Peasants."   


Make them poor,  and they will acquire wisdom.
Yep.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #790 on: May 19, 2017, 11:11:13 pm »
The real problem is the goodies they vote themselves from the government comes out of the pockets of the ever dwindling producers   At some point atlas will shrug.


And what do you suppose happens at that point?   Call me paranoid,  but I believe it will be much bloodshed.


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online Bigun

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #791 on: May 19, 2017, 11:12:52 pm »
So true. I wonder how many on school boards and such are even aware of what is in the current crop of textbooks.

In Texas it wouldn't matter much because they would have no control over them at all!  That is controlled by The Texas State Board of Education with one member being elected from each of our 31 senatorial districts 1/3 of which come up for election every two years.  THOSE elections are ones I personally pay a LOT of attention to!

BTW: Because Texas is the size it is that board actually has great influence on the content of textbooks for all other states as well.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 11:14:15 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #792 on: May 19, 2017, 11:13:38 pm »
That's why you have to repackage the whole thing as a 'benefit', not as a cut. Then, suddenly the whole racial component goes out the window. You could even have people on racially oriented websites complaining about another program to benefit a different demographic to help sell the idea.



You better be able to sell freezers to Eskimos,  cause that's the sort of salesmanship this is going to take. 


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Offline Mom MD

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #793 on: May 19, 2017, 11:16:06 pm »

And what do you suppose happens at that point?   Call me paranoid,  but I believe it will be much bloodshed.

Likely so.  When we can no longer produce at a rate to keep them happy things will get dicey...
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #794 on: May 19, 2017, 11:20:37 pm »
So true. I wonder how many on school boards and such are even aware of what is in the current crop of textbooks.
I wonder how many of us even here, who really care about and follow politics, even remember who they voted for in the last school board election.

I sort of do.  When I don't know anything about the candidates I just leave that section blank.  I need to fix that.  If I spent half the time working locally that I do complaining about national politics, I just might, might, make a little, little, bit of change where I actually can.
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Online Bigun

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #795 on: May 19, 2017, 11:21:36 pm »
Likely so.  When we can no longer produce at a rate to keep them happy things will get dicey...

I don't think it will be a matter of can't produce but rather a refusal to produce. When there is no longer any incentive to produce why would anyone produce anything outside of for their own personal consumption.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #796 on: May 19, 2017, 11:24:48 pm »

You better be able to sell freezers to Eskimos,  cause that's the sort of salesmanship this is going to take.
Lots of Innuit have freezers, so obviously there is a market. "And you only have to plug it in 6 months out of the year if you set it on the porch...."

What really needs to be reformed is the way people qualify for benefits, and how that changes. As is, if you make a dollar over your Medicaid cutoff, you're on your own. If you make too much, the SNAP goes away. There is a point where the benefits are not able to be replaced by minor increases in income, but those minor increases will cost all the benefits. That needs to be tapered to a more graduated transition, or it provides a disincentive to work harder. It was like working overtime (when a guy could get in overtime) and seeing it go to taxes after just a couple of hours. So, if the option was there, you only worked enough overtime to maximize the take-home, and not so much it cost you.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 11:31:59 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #797 on: May 19, 2017, 11:29:23 pm »

And what do you suppose happens at that point?   Call me paranoid,  but I believe it will be much bloodshed.

YEP. That's how this story goes.
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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #798 on: May 19, 2017, 11:33:53 pm »
Screw burning our food, we're burning our alcohol!

 :silly:
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: When Will Republicans Dump Trump?
« Reply #799 on: May 19, 2017, 11:50:52 pm »

Very aptly put.   If Trump makes some changes and people like them,  then we move in that direction.   


One of those changes better be a wall.

Why?   Enforcing illegal immigration laws already on the books will work just as well in the interim.  The wall is an excuse for more funding, IMO.  We don't really need it right now.  Hell, what we need is to keep the Muslim extremists from entering our country via that Obama "refugee" program.  If only...
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