Author Topic: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says  (Read 4956 times)

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Offline EC

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2017, 08:59:42 pm »
Point of information - the total number of receptors for caffeine in the human body is only equivalent to about 1000 Mg in 24 hours. Anything over that amount will not be processed by the body or metabolized.

Also, the time of day is a factor in how caffeine can invoke heart attack - early morning ingesting (especially just after waking up) is problematic.

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2017, 09:00:33 pm »

Also, the time of day is a factor in how caffeine can invoke heart attack - early morning ingesting (especially just after waking up) is problematic.

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Offline LateForLunch

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2017, 10:58:41 pm »
The best part of waking up.... is Russian Roulette in your cup!

That was ah goo d'wahn!

The reason from what I've read may be linked to hormonal conditions.  For some reason in the morning the blood stream is high in a particular enzyme which has to do with adrenaline binding to receptors. Later in the day, there are other enzymes present in higher levels which mitigate the effects of the adrenaline-binding hormones. Adrenaline in turn has a tendancy to sometimes be correlated to production of "stress hormones" like cortisol, which is in turn linked statistically to heart ailments.

It could be that the same hormonal factors related to increased adrenaline binding also affect the amount of binding to receptors of caffeine molecules.

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20110427/heart-attacks-in-the-morning-are-more-severe#2

It would not be surprising if the poor fellow who is the subject of the article died in the morning and may have had a hidden heart condition of which he was unaware. There is evidence that this is a common reason people die unexpectedly from heart attacks (when they have previously shown no other inclination toward problems).

 NOTE: There is also a statistic (can't remember where I read it) which said that people who have just had sex are for at least an hour or two afterward in the lowest risk category for heart attacks (unless they have a prexisting condition and are not taking proper medicine to treat it). This apparently has to do with endorphines which are released in the love-making process, which tends to relax the heart and dialate blood vessels, reducing two important factors in myocardial infarction.

NOTE#2 : I had a yoga instructor who believed that low oxygen level in the bloodstream is also a high-risk factor for heart attacks, although I am not aware of any studies which cite this. It makes sense though from a practical perspective, since low oxygen would tend to inhibit efficiency of metabolism including the endocrine system and the circulatory system.  People tend to also breathe shallowly and unevenly when upset or angry, which is not conducive to good health. My instructor often said that "People don't breathe properly. All of that free oxygen going to waste.".

As far as increased danger immediately after waking up - I will look for the source. I read that there is statistical evidence that the body is in a hyper-sensitive state for at least a half hour after awakening. This has to do with blood pressure being low from normal sleep and needing at least a half-hour of waking to come up to normal level. Hormonal activity is linked to blood pressure for some reason. Very low or very high blood pressure affects the endocrine system significantly.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 02:39:01 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline raml

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2017, 05:46:13 am »
My twins when adults one was in the navy at the time both over dosed on caffeine and landed in the hospital because they collapsed. They took those caffeine pills Jim to keep wake on doing an overnight duty and Bill when taking a trip with his wife and kids and doing a lot of driving. Bill luckily stopped the car because he felt strange and then collapsed his wife took him to the hospital then. They were told they were allergic to caffeine and not to have more than a cup or two of coffee anymore but they rarely drink anything with caffeine anymore. It happened to Bill first and he even warned Jim but Jim forgot and was feeling sleepy when doing an overnight duty and popped some it really scared his wife she called me in the middle of the night to come with her to the hospital had to travel down to San Diego at 3:00 am from Moreno Valley where I lived at the time.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 05:47:19 am by raml »

geronl

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2017, 06:42:33 am »
@raml

I didn't know you could be allergic, but I guess it's possible to have allergies to literally anything.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2017, 07:09:14 am »
That doesn't sound like enough to kill someone.
According to https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/mcdonalds-latte (McDonalds does not post their caffeine content on their website)

A McLatte @  142mg/16oz,



Large Mountain Dew, 121mg for 32 oz.
 
http://www.pkdiet.com/pdf/Caffeine%20EnergyDrinks.pdf

and an energy drink should have 164mg/8oz (max)

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/caffeine/art-20049372?pg=2

I get 427mg of caffeine.

One Vivarin, in my college days, was about 200 mg IIRC, and cramming for exams, we'd take 2 during the night. That was a bit much, considering we'd drink coffee or pop all night, too, but none of us died from it (shaky, irritable, sewing machine leg, etc, but no fatalities).

I would guess the guy was either unaccustomed to caffeine intake, had an underlying and undiagnosed heart condition, or complicating pharmacology.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2017, 07:16:16 am »
The best part of waking up.... is Russian Roulette in your cup!
Good to the last drop!  :thud:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

geronl

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2017, 07:22:19 am »
According to https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-content/mcdonalds-latte (McDonalds does not post their caffeine content on their website)


I drink a lot of soda, I know I shouldn't but whatever, I don't like the withdrawal symptoms...  **nononono*

geronl

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2017, 07:24:00 am »
Good to the last drop!  :thud:

nice!

@LateForLunch  I suppose some are more susceptible than others. If they ever determine a test for this it would be good. We all know how kids love their soft drinks and crap. (Ice Tea has caffeine too, which is often the alternative)

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2017, 07:30:00 am »
nice!

@LateForLunch  I suppose some are more susceptible than others. If they ever determine a test for this it would be good. We all know how kids love their soft drinks and crap. (Ice Tea has caffeine too, which is often the alternative)
I think it is a question of tolerance, too. I drink at least a pot of strongly brewed fresh ground Dark Sumatran coffee a day. I'll drink Iced tea, sweet tea, or even the occasional pop, too. I'm used to it.

It gets worse. This site http://www.yourinsomniacure.com/Caffeine_Content_Table.html even claims 20 to 30mg per slice of chocolate cake...

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2017, 07:35:50 am »
metric shit-tons

Whaaat? Here all my life I have been equating a shit ton to a buttload, only to find out it's metric?

Offline Sighlass

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2017, 08:24:25 am »
Now. I can't drink any caffeine my body won't tolerate it.

Ditto, I can drink about two cups of decaf tea a day is about all. Even decaf tea has certain amount of caffeine in it. Anything more and I can't sleep for a day or so. But I have always for some reason been hypersensitive to drugs.

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Offline Gefn

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2017, 09:52:44 am »
Ditto, I can drink about two cups of decaf tea a day is about all. Even decaf tea has certain amount of caffeine in it. Anything more and I can't sleep for a day or so. But I have always for some reason been hypersensitive to drugs.

I claim the snowflake trophy... and I ain't sharing.

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Offline Gefn

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2017, 09:54:11 am »
I think it is a question of tolerance, too. I drink at least a pot of strongly brewed fresh ground Dark Sumatran coffee a day. I'll drink Iced tea, sweet tea, or even the occasional pop, too. I'm used to it.

It gets worse. This site http://www.yourinsomniacure.com/Caffeine_Content_Table.html even claims 20 to 30mg per slice of chocolate cake...

Not cake!

Noooooooooooo
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Offline LateForLunch

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2017, 02:51:03 pm »
Not cake!

Noooooooooooo


Chocolate supposedly has no (edited) natural caffeine but it has a stimulant in the same family (xanthines) called theobromine.  Cocaine is also a xanthine and theobromine is actually more similar chemically to cocaine than to caffeine. Theobromine is a non-striated muscle stimulant. Non-striated muscles include the heart.  So chocolate will stimulate the heart muscle.

The effect of theobromine is very similar to caffeine in many ways (central nervous system stimulant), so it is understandable that non-technical people would confuse it with caffeine. In a practical sense, there is little difference between the two. Although the chemical similarity between theobromine and cocaine may help to explain the highly seductive nature of chocolate. heh

Personally, I like dark chocolate - not only for the increased flavor but also because it is higher in healthful anti-oxidants than lighter chocolate. Same goes for light and dark beer. For some reason, the foods with the more intense colors are generally more healthful than foods with less color. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:52:51 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2017, 03:25:10 pm »
Chocolate has no caffeine but it has a stimulant in the same family (xanthines) called theobromine.  Cocaine is also a xanthine and theobromine is actually more similar chemically to cocaine than to caffeine. Theobromine is a non-striated muscle stimulant. Non-striated muscles include the heart.  So chocolate will stimulate the heart muscle.

The effect of theobromine is very similar to caffeine in many ways (central nervous system stimulant), so it is understandable that non-technical people would confuse it with caffeine. In a practical sense, there is little difference between the two. Although the chemical similarity between theobromine and cocaine may help to explain the highly seductive nature of chocolate. heh

Personally, I like dark chocolate - not only for the increased flavor but also because it is higher in healthful anti-oxidants than lighter chocolate. Same goes for light and dark beer. For some reason, the foods with the more intense colors are generally more healthful than foods with less color.
My research says chocolate has both theobromine and caffeine. However I'd never heard of theobromine so I learned something new.  :laugh:

http://www.consumerlab.com/answers/How+much+caffeine+is+really+in+dark+chocolate+bars/caffeine_dark_chocolate/
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2017, 03:26:05 pm »
 @LateForLunch According to this website, chocolate does have small concentrations of caffeine. https://cspinet.org/eating-healthy/ingredients-of-concern/caffeine-chart

I'm not entirely sure where they got their data, but their numbers for drinks and energy drinks seem to be in line with other sites I have seen.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline LateForLunch

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2017, 03:37:10 pm »
@LateForLunch According to this website, chocolate does have small concentrations of caffeine. https://cspinet.org/eating-healthy/ingredients-of-concern/caffeine-chart

I'm not entirely sure where they got their data, but their numbers for drinks and energy drinks seem to be in line with other sites I have seen.

http://www.xocoatl.org/caffeine.htm

Yeah, I know. I'm not sure it matters, but the website I sourced seems to be a chemist's page (with molecular diagrams) and the author claims that any caffeine in chocolate products is added, not naturally present in cocoa (except in the cocoa bean husks, which are not used in making chocolate). You can see from the diagram how similar the two molecules are chemically so for all intents and purposes, if the product ingredient profile lists both caffeine and theobromine as a single percentage it will likely make little practical difference to people who consume it.

Candy-makers sometimes put caffeine in their products because  of the mild mood elevating effect which they hope will help to sell more of their product.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 03:44:51 pm by LateForLunch »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2017, 04:03:27 pm »
Interesting, thanks! The other source led behind a paywall, or I would have gone directly to the original reference.  Just a Methylene apart....(CH2)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 04:05:28 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2017, 06:34:55 pm »
Ditto, I can drink about two cups of decaf tea a day is about all. Even decaf tea has certain amount of caffeine in it. Anything more and I can't sleep for a day or so. But I have always for some reason been hypersensitive to drugs.

I claim the snowflake trophy... and I ain't sharing.

When I was about 23 I had a faux heart attack - system went bonkers and  wound up in ICU over night. I was chugging Pepsi and Mountain Dew at the time - Seriously buying a cold-pack or two a day in the summer time... Along with coffee in the morning...

One of the things that came back in the tests was an extraordinary amount of something in my blood that pointed to high rates of caffeine... Even my high consumption couldn't account for it, and someone suggested that I got some kind of extra high dose in one or more of the pop cans...

Dunno, can't say, can't prove a dang thing. But I went back to sweet tea and lemonade that very day, and I seldom drink pop since - maybe 3 of them a year, and that mostly root beer.

But to say this is a new thing is probably wrong, as it happened to me 25 years ago...

As to the body not being able to handle it - I am getting that way too... I still like coffee in the morning, but seldom more than a couple cups, or it starts to make me sick and feeling jangley. But somehow, sweet tea seems to have little  in ill effects, which would point to it not being the caffeine. Dunno.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2017, 06:35:54 pm »
When I was about 23 I had a faux heart attack - system went bonkers and  wound up in ICU over night. I was chugging Pepsi and Mountain Dew at the time - Seriously buying a cold-pack or two a day in the summer time... Along with coffee in the morning...

One of the things that came back in the tests was an extraordinary amount of something in my blood that pointed to high rates of caffeine... Even my high consumption couldn't account for it, and someone suggested that I got some kind of extra high dose in one or more of the pop cans...

Dunno, can't say, can't prove a dang thing. But I went back to sweet tea and lemonade that very day, and I seldom drink pop since - maybe 3 of them a year, and that mostly root beer.

But to say this is a new thing is probably wrong, as it happened to me 25 years ago...

As to the body not being able to handle it - I am getting that way too... I still like coffee in the morning, but seldom more than a couple cups, or it starts to make me sick and feeling jangley. But somehow, sweet tea seems to have little  in ill effects, which would point to it not being the caffeine. Dunno.

Sounds like an anxiety attack.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2017, 06:43:46 pm »
Sounds like an anxiety attack.
An excess of stimulants would produce the same symptoms. Don't ask how I know... **nononono*
All I can say is I don't recommend it.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2017, 06:44:40 pm »
Sounds like an anxiety attack.

Nope. Some kind of marker in the blood was there that is only there under the heart's extreme duress... And they thought that too - pumped me full of happy pills while waiting for the test results, and while I felt better (high), it made no difference to the physical trauma underway.

Something happened. They cannot say what...

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2017, 06:44:47 pm »
An excess of stimulants would produce the same symptoms. Don't ask how I know... **nononono*
All I can say is I don't recommend it.

Yeah, same.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: US teen died after drinking caffeine too quickly, coroner says
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2017, 06:46:03 pm »
Nope. Some kind of marker in the blood was there that is only there under the heart's extreme duress... And they thought that too - pumped me full of happy pills while waiting for the test results, and while I felt better (high), it made no difference to the physical trauma underway.

Something happened. They cannot say what...

Maybe. Soda isn't exactly a health drink.