Author Topic: Jeff Sessions' Explanation for Re-instituting the Discriminatory War on Drugs Is Flagrant BS (title edited)  (Read 8063 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Why shoah 'nuff they's discrimineratory.
Think of all that BLACK tar heroin coming in, from Mexico. Why makin that there illegal's a discriminatory two-fer, black and mescan.
(Yes, all that was sarcasm). The author is foolish at best.

Drug abuse does not occur in a vacuum. The effects on those who are merely the 'collateral damage' of the user are incalculable, wildly destructive, impoverishing, and deadly.

That without going into the violent acts which often accompany the drug trade, and those committed by people under the influence of those drugs which would not go away with legalization.
 
Alcohol, which so many attempt to compare other drug abuse with causes enough problems, you'd think we'd have learned.

We won't ever eliminate alcohol, it is too ingrained in human culture, but that doesn't mean we need to set the table for other drugs by losing our resolve to fight them.

The legacy of the Obama policy?
An ongoing and blossoming heroin problem, only now, it's new, improved, darker and has Fentanyl, for that extra 'kick' (and a huge increase in ODs.).
The police in small town ND are carrying narcan, and have saved lives by administering it and CPR. Wonderful, stuff.
Continued contempt for Federal Law as States legalize pot for recreational use.
Drug tests which used to have 4 panels now have 12, and there are new compounds every day.
It's more of the Choom Gang legacy, and one more trend we need to reverse.
Considering their fondness for Cloward-Piven, it seems as if they were out to commit as much destruction to America and American Culture as possible to effectively put the next administration in a situation of having to do repairs so extensive that any actual new policy would be difficult to implement.


Exactly right on everything you said.   It is good to read clear headed and informed thinking. 

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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You seem to be assuming that is is not a horrible failure with what we are doing right now.


It is a mild failure compared to doing the opposite.    Legalized drugs would be a massively horrible failure. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Like I said, I am not an expert on this subject; so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt...

But it seems to me a body count doesn't seem to make much of a difference.  There is already a body count from people dying due to taking drugs. 



Those people are victims.   I am talking about a body count for the perpetrators.  I thought I made that clear.     





It doesn't seem to deter them any.  People will do what they want to do as they tend to believe it won't happen to them, get caught, etc. 


Drugs will do that.   This is why we need to exterminate the people supplying them.   Once people get addicted,  they will do incredibly stupid things that might cause their deaths.    The solution is to prevent the addiction in the first place,  and the way to do it is to make the cost of doing business in drugs too high for those who profit from it under the current status quo. 








Capital punishment doesn't appear to be deterring people from killing cops. 



Okay,  this is a whole nother can of worms,   but how much "deterrence"  do you get from a punishment that has a 13 year wait time before it is carried out,  and that is *IF*  it ever gets carried out? 

On February 15, 1933 Giuseppe Zangara shot Anton Cermak. 





 Cermak did not die of his wound until March 6,  1933.  Zangara was executed March 20, 1933.    


That's how it's done. 






We'd have to institute real fear in these people Saddam Hussein style and that will never happen as it would be "cruel and unusual."  Easier to let "Survival of the Fittest" to take its natural course in society. 



You have more or less stated something which I have said countless times before.   The reason our "war on drugs"   is a slow motion train wreck is because it's not a war,  it's a holding action.    The American people would become upset if we actually fought it like a war,   so they are content to tolerate the current degree of suffering caused by not smashing the drug producing system.   

So long as the American people want a milquetoast approach to stopping drugs,   some of it is going to continue to flow into our system. 




We allow people to drink themselves to death.  Why not allow those that wish to drug themselves to death the same freedom?  They're going to do it anyway; so why keep the dealers flush with cash by keeping it illegal?  Just my rather naive approach to it.   :shrug:


Because





Drug addiction,  if tolerated,  will spread like a disease.   It is only confined now because of the constant pressure we keep  on it to hold it down.   


People don't know this,  but the reason the United States adopted anti-drug policies at the turn of the 20th century was because addiction and overdose was getting worse.   People also had the example of what was happening in China at the time,  and so everyone could see where this road was heading.   


We here a century later have forgotten (or never learned)  the lesson that was all too apparent in 1910,  that addiction was becoming an increasing problem that needed to be addressed before it got out of control. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online Smokin Joe

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Like I said, I am not an expert on this subject; so take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt...

But it seems to me a body count doesn't seem to make much of a difference.  There is already a body count from people dying due to taking drugs.  It doesn't seem to deter them any.  People will do what they want to do as they tend to believe it won't happen to them, get caught, etc. 

Capital punishment doesn't appear to be deterring people from killing cops.  We'd have to institute real fear in these people Saddam Hussein style and that will never happen as it would be "cruel and unusual."  Easier to let "Survival of the Fittest" to take its natural course in society.  We allow people to drink themselves to death.  Why not allow those that wish to drug themselves to death the same freedom?  They're going to do it anyway; so why keep the dealers flush with cash by keeping it illegal?  Just my rather naive approach to it.   :shrug:
The penumbra of destruction wrought by only one kid who gets addicted can be incredible in a family. Despite all the braying of "not hurting anyone (else)" the damage goes far and wide.
Granted, the addicts will kill themselves, given a chance. We don't go handing loaded guns, ropes, or straight razors to depressed people, why do the same for people with chemical dependencies?

When you're happy that a kid is in prison where they will have a much harder time OD-ing rather than out on the streets (where they were last found, unresponsive, saved by the convenience store clerk who saw the two skanks roll him out of his pickup and administered CPR and a cop with a shot of Narcan to reverse the effects of the Fentanyl laced heroin he did), maybe you will understand. That was one of my grandsons. He was a good kid, he had that winning smile. He was a good worker. He got into that sh*t, and ended that. Thankfully he is in rehab (again), but after that, grandma will worry until he's back in jail.

It is the dealers who make the drug available, who profit from it awash in the pain, misery, blood, and collateral crime that comes from having junkies around. They don't care. Stolen goods, broken vehicle windows and torn out dashboards, houses damaged, businesses, homes, and people robbed, storage units looted, and basically anything not tied down stolen.

If those tools were what you use to earn a living, an addict doesn't care. They are fixated on that next fix.

It also breeds unreal violence, and sexual exploitation and rape go hand in hand.

It isn't a culture we need, nor want roaming the streets--anywhere in America, and definitely not in our back yards. No place, no neighborhood, no economic class is immune.

But someone is getting a lot of money out of it.  The rest of us are picking up the tab, and legalizing it will not change that. A friend who lived in Denver moved after pot was legalized there. He said police no longer responded to property crimes because they were too busy with other matters. So the official story does not reflect the crime rates there because the paperwork never got filled out. Not something you want in your neighborhood--he moved out of the state.

The "war" has not been fought to win, only to be as intrusive and onerous for the average non-user as possible, and only to 'fight' the low end user, not the major dealers. Makes you wonder why the not uninterrelated matters of deporting illegals, securing the border, fighting drugs, social problems, street violence, and even looting were not more effectively pursued by the last administration.  That doesn't mean that this administration should not put the effort into all of those issues that is needed to better eliminate the problems, and drugs can be found arm in arm with all of them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline anubias

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The penumbra of destruction wrought by only one kid who gets addicted can be incredible in a family. Despite all the braying of "not hurting anyone (else)" the damage goes far and wide.
Granted, the addicts will kill themselves, given a chance. We don't go handing loaded guns, ropes, or straight razors to depressed people, why do the same for people with chemical dependencies?

When you're happy that a kid is in prison where they will have a much harder time OD-ing rather than out on the streets (where they were last found, unresponsive, saved by the convenience store clerk who saw the two skanks roll him out of his pickup and administered CPR and a cop with a shot of Narcan to reverse the effects of the Fentanyl laced heroin he did), maybe you will understand. That was one of my grandsons. He was a good kid, he had that winning smile. He was a good worker. He got into that sh*t, and ended that. Thankfully he is in rehab (again), but after that, grandma will worry until he's back in jail.

It is the dealers who make the drug available, who profit from it awash in the pain, misery, blood, and collateral crime that comes from having junkies around. They don't care. Stolen goods, broken vehicle windows and torn out dashboards, houses damaged, businesses, homes, and people robbed, storage units looted, and basically anything not tied down stolen.

If those tools were what you use to earn a living, an addict doesn't care. They are fixated on that next fix.

It also breeds unreal violence, and sexual exploitation and rape go hand in hand.

It isn't a culture we need, nor want roaming the streets--anywhere in America, and definitely not in our back yards. No place, no neighborhood, no economic class is immune.

But someone is getting a lot of money out of it.  The rest of us are picking up the tab, and legalizing it will not change that. A friend who lived in Denver moved after pot was legalized there. He said police no longer responded to property crimes because they were too busy with other matters. So the official story does not reflect the crime rates there because the paperwork never got filled out. Not something you want in your neighborhood--he moved out of the state.

The "war" has not been fought to win, only to be as intrusive and onerous for the average non-user as possible, and only to 'fight' the low end user, not the major dealers. Makes you wonder why the not uninterrelated matters of deporting illegals, securing the border, fighting drugs, social problems, street violence, and even looting were not more effectively pursued by the last administration.  That doesn't mean that this administration should not put the effort into all of those issues that is needed to better eliminate the problems, and drugs can be found arm in arm with all of them.

I'm sorry that you are going through this, SJ.  My heart bleeds for you as I have been there.  Words cannot describe how horrible it is.

I don't believe fighting the war on drugs will work, but there was a time I believed as you did.  I've since realized that these people will find a way to get high one way or another.  Until they themselves make the choice to get off the drugs, they will stay on them.  It's a choice they themselves have to make, unfortunately.  I hope your grandson finds the courage within himself to make that choice.

Offline txradioguy

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Sessions piss poor decision needs piss poor articles.

(What is up with the Russian? You have a fan base?)

What's so piss poor about the decision?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Online Smokin Joe

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I'm sorry that you are going through this, SJ.  My heart bleeds for you as I have been there.  Words cannot describe how horrible it is.

I don't believe fighting the war on drugs will work, but there was a time I believed as you did.  I've since realized that these people will find a way to get high one way or another.  Until they themselves make the choice to get off the drugs, they will stay on them.  It's a choice they themselves have to make, unfortunately.  I hope your grandson finds the courage within himself to make that choice.
Thank you, and I hope he makes that choice, too. His odds are pretty low, despite the wishes of family, he has been in and out of rehab so often, I think they keep the lights on for him.

My hope is that a multifaceted effort to secure the border and stop the flow of drugs will make them more difficult to obtain, and as bad as it sounds, shift the foci back to the big cities and out of the rural markets. They will be somewhere, for sure, and people will find a way to obtain them, but if they aren't as available, then fewer people will be getting started, and eventually, there will be less demand.

Border control is critical to interdiction, and the drugs which are brought in from elsewhere (Coke, Heroin, especially) won't be here. In the meantime there are synthetics like Meth and Flakka to worry about, so the problem won't be any farther than the nearest pot grow or lab.
Still, I'd like to see the war fought, and not just lip service to it and the destruction of everyone's Rights for a false war. Sadly, there are police out there, literally risking their lives, to stop something that our Federal Government has enabled.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I don't believe fighting the war on drugs will work, but there was a time I believed as you did. 



I hate to belabor the point,  but it isn't a "war"  it is a holding action.   If we fought it like a war,  it would have been over a long time ago.


As for "work",   what do you expect a holding action to do except maintain the status quo?   It "works"  or it doesn't "work"  depending on what you mean by "work." 





I've since realized that these people will find a way to get high one way or another.  Until they themselves make the choice to get off the drugs, they will stay on them.  It's a choice they themselves have to make, unfortunately. 


The choice to become an addict is much easier if people can legally flood the streets with this stuff.   
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Online Smokin Joe

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The choice to become an addict is much easier if people can legally flood the streets with this stuff.
QFT, even if they can illegally. That's why the market maintenance being done under the guise of a "war" is a farce. Let's fight like we mean it, within Constitutional bounds, and securing the border will help a lot. That may shift emphasis to 'lab' made drugs instead of plant derivatives, but that would be a start. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DiogenesLamp

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QFT, even if they can illegally. That's why the market maintenance being done under the guise of a "war" is a farce. Let's fight like we mean it, within Constitutional bounds, and securing the border will help a lot. That may shift emphasis to 'lab' made drugs instead of plant derivatives, but that would be a start.


Opium/Heroin and Cocaine/Crack all originate from foreign lands.   Much of the ingredients for meth/crank do as well. 


I'm not sure it is practical to control the borders to the extent necessary to prevent this stuff getting in,  especially with advancing drone technology.   There will come a time when they can simply fly that stuff across the border with drones.     


I say kill the people who ship it,  and it won't get shipped.   




That may shift emphasis to 'lab' made drugs instead of plant derivatives, but that would be a start. 



And that will be another can of worms. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline anubias

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I hate to belabor the point,  but it isn't a "war"  it is a holding action.   If we fought it like a war,  it would have been over a long time ago.


As for "work",   what do you expect a holding action to do except maintain the status quo?   It "works"  or it doesn't "work"  depending on what you mean by "work." 





The choice to become an addict is much easier if people can legally flood the streets with this stuff.

This country will not fight any kind war to win as we are too civilized to do what needs doing.  As for drug users, they will do/take whatever they can to get high.  It's the nature of the beast.  If the government was successful in stopping all drugs from entering the country and ending all prescription drugs that can be abused, we'll have to outlaw all chemicals as those same drug users will be huffing gasoline and the good Lord only knows what as they will find a way to get high.  I personally think it's a losing battle that cannot be won, but as I stated before, I am no expert.  I could be wrong and I hope I am.

Online Sighlass

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Okay,  this is a whole nother can of worms,   but how much "deterrence"  do you get from a punishment that has a 13 year wait time before it is carried out,  and that is *IF*  it ever gets carried out? 

Dang really digging your posts. You are spot on here. Basically quoting Solomon wisdom from 2000+ years ago.

Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil.

Salute.

@DiogenesLamp


Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Offline DiogenesLamp

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This country will not fight any kind war to win as we are too civilized to do what needs doing.  As for drug users, they will do/take whatever they can to get high.  It's the nature of the beast.  If the government was successful in stopping all drugs from entering the country and ending all prescription drugs that can be abused, we'll have to outlaw all chemicals as those same drug users will be huffing gasoline and the good Lord only knows what as they will find a way to get high.  I personally think it's a losing battle that cannot be won, but as I stated before, I am no expert.  I could be wrong and I hope I am.


You are not seeing the true nature of this beast.   Currently drug usage is some small percentage of the population.   So long as we maintain what pathetic interdiction efforts we have managed so far,  the percentage of addicts will stay approximately where it is.   


We have achieved the state of a small percentage of addicts precisely because this stuff is interdicted.   Were this stuff not being interdicted,  the percentage of addicts would start growing according to a logistical growth curve. 


In China,  during it's worst period of drug abuse,  the addiction rate approximated 50% of it's population.   


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Dang really digging your posts. You are spot on here. Basically quoting Solomon wisdom from 2000+ years ago.

Ecclesiastes 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil.

Salute.

@DiogenesLamp


Why thank you!   I am pleased to be accused of writing things that people find interesting.   

:)   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online bigheadfred

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What's so piss poor about the decision?

For your average user prison isn't a deterrent or even a stop. Drugs are readily available in prison. Turning an addict into a convicted criminal makes it worse on everybody. Prison is too much of a big business industry in America.

Making weed highly criminal in states neighboring noncriminal weed states is STUPID.

Meth is bad. That's why they give it to kids, right?

And because I want to see what happens when clean heroin is handed out for free. 21 and older of course. Call it my pet social engineering project.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Fishrrman

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Regarding illegal drugs and those who import and sell them:

I prefer "the Duterte solution". No apologies for saying so, either.

'Nuff said about that.

Offline txradioguy

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For your average user prison isn't a deterrent or even a stop. Drugs are readily available in prison. Turning an addict into a convicted criminal makes it worse on everybody. Prison is too much of a big business industry in America.

Making weed highly criminal in states neighboring noncriminal weed states is STUPID.

Meth is bad. That's why they give it to kids, right?

And because I want to see what happens when clean heroin is handed out for free. 21 and older of course. Call it my pet social engineering project.

Still doesn't answer the question. That's just a bunch of pro drug mumbo jumbo.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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7 Things We Learned About The Thriving American Heroin Industry




Quote
The market for heroin is a robust one, and 2017 is shaping up to be the best year yet for the gangs and cartels who import and distribute the drug in the United States. The drug is now both inexpensive to make and more addictive, but this more potent heroin is also killing its users.


https://consumerist.com/2017/05/12/7-things-we-learned-about-the-thriving-american-heroin-industry/
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Online Smokin Joe

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7 Things We Learned About The Thriving American Heroin Industry





https://consumerist.com/2017/05/12/7-things-we-learned-about-the-thriving-american-heroin-industry/
Basically, interdiction has to come at the production/smuggler/wholesale level, and not just on the streets. Those are the crimes that have to have the level of consequence that makes them undesirable to commit, in spite of the money. The latter may slow down or temporarily save an individual user, but it won't stop the overall problem.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EasyAce

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It doesn't help GQ's case when they start out the article with flagrant, bigoted hyperbole based on someone's looks and their stereotypes. There is a good argument to be made here but it is lost in the piss poor article.
Try these, then:

Jeff Sessions is a Glutton for Punishment
How Many Drug Offenders Benefited From the Holder Memo That Sessions Rescinded?
On Drugs, it's Back to War

. . . and lament, anyway.

(And, no, everyone else, just because many if not most druggies would love an end to the War on Drugs, it does not follow
that many if not most of those who would love an end to the War on Drugs are druggies.)


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Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.