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Offline driftdiver

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« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2017, 12:16:20 PM »
Well, I've been flying for about 40 years, and probably seen an equal number of involuntary bumps.  And never once did I see anyone act the way that clown did.

I've seen it.  The airlines are treating people worse every single day.  Cramming more and more people onto the planes.  Making the seats smaller and decreasing the number of flights. 

I had 58 trips last year and have managed to cut it down significantly this year.   My goal is to never fly on an airline again.
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Offline driftdiver

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« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2017, 12:19:20 PM »
I don't understand why this passenger let it escalate to being dragged off the plane...

@mystery-ak

People get tired, bone crushing tired.   Last week the airlines were messed up.   Once people lost their scheduled seat, regardless of reason, they went into the standy pool.   One of my flights had almost 70 people waiting on standby.   Some were told it would be 4 days before the airline could get them home.

The airlines have cut back capacity severely so when there are disruptions the airline cannot recover.
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Online skeeter

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« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2017, 12:21:01 PM »
@skeeter
I don't blame him.   The airlines and airports are horrible.   They can break just about anyone.

I came close once, being left in the plane on the tarmac in 90 degree heat for four hours, while the airline procured a engine part, only to be finally taken off and put up in a hotel for the night. But I kept it together.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2017, 12:21:31 PM »
Actually it doesn't matter how much you pay for a ticket.   The airline writes the rules and can toss you off for any reason.   Your ticket is just a promise to transport you if its convenient for them.

As a practical matter, it does.  Every domestic airline with which I'm familiar prioritizes involuntary bumps by fare paid.  First class, business class, full coach, etc., will not get bumped off the flight (thought they may get downgraded) before cut-rate nonrefundables.  If you don't want to be bumped off a flight, pony up for the more expensive ticket up front. 

Quote
So while the airline has the legal right to do this, from a business perspective ALL U.S. airlines have a serious PR issue.   

And yet, air passenger travel generally increases every year.  Why is that?

People want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want cut-rate fares, but want to lug massive "carry-on" bags on to flight, they want their snacks, no bumping, etc...  Just look at the bottom lines -- U.S. airlines are not huge profit machines over extended periods, and a lot of them struggle.  It is a very, very competitive industry, and finding the right balance of price/service is not easy.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 12:25:09 PM by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online XenaLee

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« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2017, 12:22:11 PM »
@catfish1957
As long as we're dreaming I'd really like to see transporters like in Star Trek.

And....if they put the same brand of idiots in charge of the transport controls (as they put in charge of booking or overbooking of airline flights now).... would you still be willing to let your molecules be disassembled and reassembled by them?   

If not already there, we're headed straight for a real-life Idiocracy scenario.  You see the signs and symptoms of it everywhere these days....lol.

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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2017, 12:23:27 PM »
I've seen it.

Honestly, how many times have you actually, personally, seen someone who was involuntarily bumped literally dragged on the floor like that guy?  This makes the news precisely because it almost never happens.  I've never seen it.  And if you have, I bet it's not more than a handful of times.

Guy should have sacked up and tried to maintain a shred of dignity instead of being a whiner.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 12:24:10 PM by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online XenaLee

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« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2017, 12:25:29 PM »
I came close once, being left in the plane on the tarmac in 90 degree heat for four hours, while the airline procured a engine part, only to be finally taken off and put up in a hotel for the night. But I kept it together.

If you were an elderly person, that could have triggered a serious health issue (like heart attack).  If the airplane can't take off for any reason, the passengers should be escorted back to a waiting area inside the airport until it can take off.  But that makes too much logical sense.....

so, nevermind.
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Online XenaLee

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« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2017, 12:31:50 PM »
Rush just mentioned this incident.  Asked...."Why didn't they just offer him a Pepsi?"

Lololol!
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Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2017, 12:33:44 PM »
Right or wrong,  but if I saw Security heading my way I think I would cooperate instead of being dragged off the plane...but that's just me.
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Online Victoria33

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« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2017, 12:36:40 PM »
I don't understand why this passenger let it escalate to being dragged off the plane...
@mystery-ak

Hmm, one family member is a United pilot.  He was flying yesterday. We haven't heard from him yet today and he usually calls every day.  If he were the pilot on that plane and had any say-so, this would not have happened.  But, I expect the pilots had no control over what happened. 
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2017, 12:44:20 PM »
Right or wrong,  but if I saw Security heading my way I think I would cooperate instead of being dragged off the plane...but that's just me.

So would 99% of people.  This snowflake just thought the bumping policy shouldn't apply to him.

Offline ABX

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« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2017, 12:46:20 PM »
Same here.  The idea of getting from Houston to Dallas in less than 90 minutes and not have to mess with hassle of airlines?  No fetish.  Just makes sense

That's not going to happen. Far too many landowners won't give up their land (rightfully so) for it.  Many are already starting the fight.
http://www.khou.com/news/local/waller-county-landowners-vow-to-fight-high-speed-rail/175447024

Offline Rivergirl

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« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2017, 12:51:13 PM »
When Continental Airlines and United merged we were assured that the consumer would suffer no disruption of service.   Hah.   Flew Continental for many a year with nothing but professional service.  United is the pits.
Lousy service, and disinterested flight attendants often bordering on rudeness.

Offline ABX

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« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2017, 12:52:21 PM »
@mystery-ak

People get tired, bone crushing tired.   Last week the airlines were messed up.   Once people lost their scheduled seat, regardless of reason, they went into the standy pool.   One of my flights had almost 70 people waiting on standby.   Some were told it would be 4 days before the airline could get them home.

The airlines have cut back capacity severely so when there are disruptions the airline cannot recover.

I almost had that from Chicago to Dallas a few weeks go (during that very bad windstorm that blew that plane off the runway in Detroit). I was already on the phone with my corporate travel to check on Amtrak as it would have been faster than the delay (private room, about 27 hours, not bad really. Better than 2 days at the airport). Luckily I wasn't bumped.

Offline ABX

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« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2017, 12:54:09 PM »
So would 99% of people.  This snowflake just thought the bumping policy shouldn't apply to him.

Maybe he wasn't a snowflake. Just the opposite, maybe he was having a Howard Beale moment. He expected the airline to live up to their contract, he was sitting in his seat, and he was told to get off, he had to give up his seat for someone the airline deemed better than him.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2017, 12:59:19 PM »
Maybe he wasn't a snowflake. Just the opposite, maybe he was having a Howard Beale moment. He expected the airline to live up to their contract, he was sitting in his seat, and he was told to get off, he had to give up his seat for someone the airline deemed better than him.

Actually, his problem was that he didn't want to live up to his contract.  The possibility that you will be bumped is stated right there on your ticket.  He just decided he had a right to disregard that particular part of the contract.

As I said, if you don't want the risk of being bumped, pay for a higher class of fare and you won't be.  What is happening is that constant consumer demand for cheaper fares is, quite naturally, causing pressure on the service end. 

Good, fast, cheap -- pick two.

Online Victoria33

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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2017, 01:06:46 PM »
That's not going to happen. Far too many landowners won't give up their land (rightfully so) for it.  Many are already starting the fight.

"Same here.  The idea of getting from Houston to Dallas in less than 90 minutes and not have to mess with hassle of airlines?  No fetish.  Just makes sense"
@AbaraXas

"Privately owned Texas Central Partners plans to build a 240-mile bullet train line between downtown Dallas and northwest Houston within the next several years. It promises to speed passengers between the two cities in 90 minutes on train cars that travel 205 mph."

Yes, property owners have started their fight to keep their land.  Their ranches would be cut through, losing many acres of their grazing land for their cattle.  This will be a fight.
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Online XenaLee

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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2017, 01:27:44 PM »
"Same here.  The idea of getting from Houston to Dallas in less than 90 minutes and not have to mess with hassle of airlines?  No fetish.  Just makes sense"
@AbaraXas

"Privately owned Texas Central Partners plans to build a 240-mile bullet train line between downtown Dallas and northwest Houston within the next several years. It promises to speed passengers between the two cities in 90 minutes on train cars that travel 205 mph."

Yes, property owners have started their fight to keep their land.  Their ranches would be cut through, losing many acres of their grazing land for their cattle.  This will be a fight.

And note that this eminent domain seizure will, once again, be done by a private entity, not a government one.  I would like to know who, exactly, those "Partners" are.  The public has a right to know who will profit handsomely (at the public's expense, per usual) from this future land-grab. 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2017, 01:56:22 PM »
Same here.  The idea of getting from Houston to Dallas in less than 90 minutes and not have to mess with hassle of airlines?  No fetish.  Just makes sense
Might look that way until you realize they are showing 110MPH across N. Dakota, which is a high traffic rail freight corridor and includes oil tanker trains among other things--not to mention snow.

That either means new tracks, or sharing with some fairly long freight trains. What could go wrong?
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Offline Smokin Joe

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« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2017, 01:58:26 PM »
@skeeter
I don't blame him.   The airlines and airports are horrible.   They can break just about anyone.
Anyone hear what kind of doctor he is? Some specialists really don't have time for delays in their schedules, and it can make a significant difference in patient outcomes.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline ABX

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« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2017, 01:59:29 PM »
"Same here.  The idea of getting from Houston to Dallas in less than 90 minutes and not have to mess with hassle of airlines?  No fetish.  Just makes sense"
@AbaraXas

"Privately owned Texas Central Partners plans to build a 240-mile bullet train line between downtown Dallas and northwest Houston within the next several years. It promises to speed passengers between the two cities in 90 minutes on train cars that travel 205 mph."

Yes, property owners have started their fight to keep their land.  Their ranches would be cut through, losing many acres of their grazing land for their cattle.  This will be a fight.

....and also everyone should take into consideration, it won't take 90 minutes. The press often does this where they calculate the maximum speed divided by the distance. (about 300 miles). If they were going 205mph the full way, it would be 90 minutes, but it wouldn't go that speed the full way plus it has to come up to speed and slow down. Realistically, it would be a 2.5 hour trip if I could guess. It is currently just over a 1 hour flight.

Online mystery-ak

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« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2017, 02:01:24 PM »
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Offline driftdiver

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« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2017, 02:03:34 PM »
As a practical matter, it does.  Every domestic airline with which I'm familiar prioritizes involuntary bumps by fare paid.  First class, business class, full coach, etc., will not get bumped off the flight (thought they may get downgraded) before cut-rate nonrefundables.  If you don't want to be bumped off a flight, pony up for the more expensive ticket up front. 

And yet, air passenger travel generally increases every year.  Why is that?

People want to have their cake and eat it too.  They want cut-rate fares, but want to lug massive "carry-on" bags on to flight, they want their snacks, no bumping, etc...  Just look at the bottom lines -- U.S. airlines are not huge profit machines over extended periods, and a lot of them struggle.  It is a very, very competitive industry, and finding the right balance of price/service is not easy.

Which is why I said the airline CAN bump anyone they want.   They usually start with the occasionally customers rather then the regulars but they CAN bump anyone.

American airline companies are making HUGE profits and United is the leader.   Regardless it is not my concern of whether they make huge profits, or any profit.   I buy a ticket with the expectation they will take me from point A to point B as promised.   The airlines oversell the seats or mess up their schedule and then fail to deliver on their promise.   

In a free market the customer is never wrong.   The customer may be overly demanding and a pain in the rear-end but they are not wrong.

Other airlines such as Qantas  and Korean Air have figured this out.   Through good business practices they have managed the market so that customers buy on value and not on lowest price.   When you sell based on price you will eventually find your customers aren't happy with your service.
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Offline thackney

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« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2017, 02:20:59 PM »
....and also everyone should take into consideration, it won't take 90 minutes. The press often does this where they calculate the maximum speed divided by the distance. (about 300 miles). If they were going 205mph the full way, it would be 90 minutes, but it wouldn't go that speed the full way plus it has to come up to speed and slow down. Realistically, it would be a 2.5 hour trip if I could guess. It is currently just over a 1 hour flight.

Now be fair with the flight time.  It takes a lot more time of the passenger than just the time in the air.  It is a lot faster get in and out of rail stations than from a plane that just landed on the runway.

When I had more frequent business between Houston and Dallas, I found flying saved very little time over driving when you included the time spent go to/from and dealing with the airport.
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Offline driftdiver

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« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2017, 02:24:55 PM »
Now be fair with the flight time.  It takes a lot more time of the passenger than just the time in the air.  It is a lot faster get in and out of rail stations than from a plane that just landed on the runway.

When I had more frequent business between Houston and Dallas, I found flying saved very little time over driving when you included the time spent go to/from and dealing with the airport.

If they were to ever get these trains in place I doubt the boarding process would be much better then the airlines.   They'd find a reason to add TSA to the process, security checks, random screenings and so on.   
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