Author Topic: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise  (Read 4394 times)

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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« on: April 08, 2017, 04:45:00 am »
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/president-trumps-syria-strike-was-unconstitutional-and-unwise/522228/

It also may show President Trump how your twitter account comes back to haunt you.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2017, 04:55:57 am »
Horsepucky.  Trump's actions are not unConstitutional given the War Powers Act that gives him authority to act in cases deemed in our national security interests (which he has to make a case for - which I have yet to hear). 

Where it becomes unConstitutional is if he does as Obama did, and never goes to Congress to explain his actions, his goals and to get their approval for continued actions to achieve those goals and just acts on his own authority - a precedent Obama has already set with the full and complete consent of Congress.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 05:08:34 am »
Horsepucky.  Trump's actions are not unConstitutional given the War Powers Act that gives him authority to act in cases deemed in our national security interests (which he has to make a case for - which I have yet to hear). 

Where it becomes unConstitutional is if he does as Obama did, and never goes to Congress to explain his actions, his goals and to get their approval for continued actions to achieve those goals and just acts on his own authority - a precedent Obama has already set with the full and complete consent of Congress.

What was done cannot be undone.  But I think he must now take it to Congress.  What is revealing in this story is his tweets which are opposite of his current reaction.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2017, 05:29:14 am »
He already has briefed congress.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 06:41:33 am »
He already has briefed congress.

Trump himself did not brief Congress.  The Joint Chiefs had a briefing with some select Senators yesterday but outlined no strategy or policy according to reports.  Pence is supposed to reach out to members of Congress during the current recess and the admonition I have read is that they expect a strategy, goals and so forth to be presented by Trump with formal Congressional involvement before he can go any further.

A briefing is a far cry from obtaining congressional sanction and approval of military action in Syria.  That has not happened at all yet.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline 240B

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 06:42:55 am »
What Trump should have done was he should have attacked Libya with an wholly illegal war, without Congressional authorization and without consultation or approval of the U.N. and without any coherent reason or justification. Which led to a leader of a sovereign nation being captured, and then having a knife stuck up his butt, before being hung by Al Qaida terrorists.

That would be something the idiot, lunatic, Liberals could really support and stand for.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 06:45:18 am by 240B »
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2017, 06:45:33 am »
Trump himself did not brief Congress.  The Joint Chiefs had a briefing with some select Senators yesterday but outlined no strategy or policy according to reports.  Pence is supposed to reach out to members of Congress during the current recess and the admonition I have read is that they expect a strategy, goals and so forth to be presented by Trump with formal Congressional involvement before he can go any further.

A briefing is a far cry from obtaining congressional sanction and approval of military action in Syria.  That has not happened at all yet.

They briefed at least 2 dozen members of Congress prior to the action.   Nothing else needs to happen.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2017, 07:20:51 am »
They briefed at least 2 dozen members of Congress prior to the action.   Nothing else needs to happen.

Oh, so now the President can simply 'brief' congress whenever he wages wars or military actions without any kind of Congressional approval whatsoever??

"Hey guys, I nuked Shanghai... bigly... at dinner time - okay?  Oh, and I'm sending troops into Pyongyang to waste that fat twerp shooting off missiles he claims are nukes tomorrow at lunchtime.   Thanks".

Gives a whole new meaning to the term Imperial Presidency.

Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2017, 07:26:01 am »
Oh, so now the President can simply 'brief' congress whenever he wages wars or military actions without any kind of Congressional approval whatsoever??

"Hey guys, I nuked Shanghai... bigly... at dinner time - okay?  Oh, and I'm sending troops into Pyongyang to waste that fat twerp shooting off missiles he claims are nukes tomorrow at lunchtime.   Thanks".

Gives a whole new meaning to the term Imperial Presidency.

It's not a war and you know it. 
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2017, 08:16:28 am »
It's not a war and you know it.


@driftdiver

Yeah, it's just a "police action".

And a semiautomatic isn't an arm.

And Islam isn't a religion.

And the Internet isn't the press or speech.

Tyranny loves playing with language.

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2017, 10:26:38 am »

@driftdiver

Yeah, it's just a "police action".

And a semiautomatic isn't an arm.

And Islam isn't a religion.

And the Internet isn't the press or speech.

Tyranny loves playing with language.

Not even that.  Did you get so concerned when everything other  recent President has done the same?
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2017, 10:41:40 am »
US has hit terrorists in Syria, under Obama and now under Trump in the form of ISIS, Al Qaeda. Were we all saying that was unconstitutional as well?

Looks like now, the Russians are indeed being implicated in the poisonous gas strike as well by ignoring or concealing it; this ups the ante.


Offline edpc

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2017, 11:05:56 am »
[The] War Powers Act that gives him authority to act in cases deemed in our national security interests (which he has to make a case for - which I have yet to hear). 

Nor have I and I'm not seeing what it could possibly be.
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2017, 11:10:53 am »
Certainly looking like it may have been rushed and unwise.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2017, 11:20:41 am »
US has hit terrorists in Syria, under Obama and now under Trump in the form of ISIS, Al Qaeda. Were we all saying that was unconstitutional as well?

Looks like now, the Russians are indeed being implicated in the poisonous gas strike as well by ignoring or concealing it; this ups the ante.

I could have sworn Trump campaigned on not getting us involved in Syria. I want that Trump back.

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2017, 12:25:38 pm »
I could have sworn Trump campaigned on not getting us involved in Syria. I want that Trump back.

There is no Trump - "it" changes day by day.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2017, 12:32:49 pm »
Nor have I and I'm not seeing what it could possibly be.

National security interests is an extremely broad phrase.  It sounds great and just about anything you want can be put into the bucket.
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2017, 12:41:01 pm »
There is no Trump - "it" changes day by day.

If only someone had warned them.  :whistle:

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2017, 12:49:19 pm »
What was done cannot be undone.  But I think he must now take it to Congress.  What is revealing in this story is his tweets which are opposite of his current reaction.

The only action that would be unconstitutional is if he were to actually declare war. 
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2017, 12:55:41 pm »
I could have sworn Trump campaigned on not getting us involved in Syria. I want that Trump back.

I was never a huge Trump supporter, but I don't recall staying out of Syria as one of his campaign promises. I think he was a little hasty in his decision to launch missiles at Syria, but, I of course didn't have the intel, nor was privy to the briefings from Mattis and McMasters. Tillerson was also quite confident that Asaad was the one who released chemical weapons.

It's one thing to comment on what you would or would not do on a particular issue and quite another when a situation on that issue arises and smacks you directly in the face.

As for his actions being unconstitutional ... definitely not.
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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2017, 01:15:56 pm »
Read as far as "The Atlantic" in the link before I stopped!
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Offline Hondo69

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2017, 01:23:55 pm »
Frankly, I don't understand the legal/Constitutional standing issues well enough to comment on that aspect, but I do have a "What If" scenario rattling around between my ears.

Let's say Saddam had sent Syria his chemical weapons prior to the half-assed "inspections", but Assad had already used those up long ago.  He then turned to Iran to replace them, who happily obliged.  These most recent gas attacks would have therefore been rooted in Iranian-based WMD's.

Far fetched?  Not at all.

And it changes the lens from which we view this single event.  Instead of placing the focus on Assad it switches the viewpoint to Iran, and therefore Russia by association.  And just for sh*ts and grins, it also ties back to plane loads of cold hard cash supplied by none other than Barack Hussein Obama.

If it were not for history books packed full of similar examples this single event could be viewed as an isolated action not interconnected to much of anything.  Horrible, yes, but an isolated action.  Which is exactly the way most people seem to be viewing this gas attack, a single action that occurred essentially in a vacuum.  But history tells us that is highly unlikely.

Which, for me personally, increases the pucker factor exponentially.  For the time being, however, I'll go with the prevailing view and try to ignore those voices in my head.


Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2017, 01:28:37 pm »
 :thud:   Here  we go again, a headline good for 20 or 30 pages of Trump Haters vs. The Orange hoard. Maybe there is some intelligent  discussion going on over on the sports section.
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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2017, 01:31:41 pm »
If only someone had warned them.  :whistle:

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Offline endicom

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Re: Trump's Syria Strike Was Unconstitutional and Unwise
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2017, 01:32:58 pm »
When the mountain wouldn't come to Mohammad, he went to the mountain.

When the mountain wouldn't come to the Ne'reTrumps, they built a molehill.

This was a limited strike involving no additional ground troops. BFD, as Slow Joe might say.