Centrist group in House 'will never' meet with Freedom Caucus

[INVAR]

The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector....

It is the oft-used tactic of the Left to attack anyone who stands on principle and refuses to bend and compromise with evil as being a self-righteous Pharisee that stands on the corner so everyone can see them pray.

I see that same thing from Homosexual Marriage advocates.  I see that same thing from self-identifying Christians who are abortion proponents. 

There is a big difference between standing on a corner so everyone can see you pray out loud so you can create the illusion you are religious - and standing against evil and tyranny while praying in secret.

The truth of the matter is, too many people LIKE evil and tyranny and HATE those who stand against it.  So they accuse us of being Pharisees for the purpose of shaming us into silence and capitulation.

That tactic does not work on me.

[r9etb]

It is the oft-used tactic of the Left to attack anyone who stands on principle and refuses to bend and compromise with evil as being a self-righteous Pharisee that stands on the corner so everyone can see them pray.

Sometimes the shoe just fits, son, and you certainly wear it proudly.

[skeeter]

We're both Republicans.   Deal with it.

BTW I never did understand the whole 'deal with it' repartee. Of course I'll deal with it.

I despise where your point of view and sophistry have been taking us, especially for the past 50 years. Its destructive and contrary to your rhetoric leads to general social decay and eventually widespread suffering. I'll deal with it by disagreeing and by doing what little I can to oppose it whenever and wherever the opportunity affords itself.

[INVAR]

Sometimes the shoe just fits, son, and you certainly wear it proudly.

If you say so.  I'll agree with you that in your eyes I am a self-righteous jerk because I refuse to bend and compromise with evil, sin and tyranny and rail against it.

You do not like that.

Your disdain is duly Noted.

[r9etb]

The truth of the matter is, too many people LIKE evil and tyranny and HATE those who stand against it.  So they accuse us of being Pharisees for the purpose of shaming us into silence and capitulation.

That tactic does not work on me.

[the_doc]

We're both Republicans.   Deal with it.

I, for one, am seriously considering leaving the GOP, friend. 

Republicanism is supposed to emphasize the idea of the Republic, and that necessarily requires that real Republicans emphasize that which constitutes these United States as a Republic.  The constituting instrument, of course, is our United States Constitution. 

There are only two basic types of genuine self-governance:  democracy and Constitutional Republicanism.  Democracy is a kind of mobocracy, as one of history's great political philosophers declared.  The thing that allows us to be self-governing is not the fact that we were founded as a democracy.  Heck, we weren't founded as a democracy--because our Framers and Founders regarded democracy as a sure road to tyranny.  The USA was founded under a rare and wonderful system of self-rule that has a document as the head of our Body Politic.  That document primarily secures our freedoms.  Would-be tyrants, unfortunately, have always tried to supplant that blessed document as the head of our Body Politic.

(Even Trump does not grasp the Spirit of the Law, the Spirit of the Constitution.  Trump's idea of Presiding is to bully conservatives in the Legislative Branch.  His "bigshot" attitude is inconsistent with proper American governance.)   

And since today's GOPe doesn't seem to give a fig for our Constitution, the Republican Party--which as a whole loathes constitutionally principled conservatives--has become something of a political farce.

P.S.  Today, I have been listening to really good tunes by Stanley Jordan.  Are you familiar with him?

[INVAR]

So in other words (and cartoons), next time you can just tell me to sit down, shut up and hang this bumper sticker on the thread:



I can post cartoons too you know.

[Cyber Liberty]

It's what I like about Bookace.  Lotsa meme, not so many pesky words and stuff.

[Bigun]

Did Cruz discuss compromising his position on repealing ObamaCare in order to provide government-mandated health insurance for everyone?  That seems to be the starting point for any discussion about 'moving the ball down the field'.

Nope.  In fact, he was adamant that he would never do that because I personally pressed him on that very thing.

[Smokin Joe]

That's actually not correct.  The Constitution did not say "the slave trade will end in 20 years," which is what you are arguing here.   What it actually said was:

"The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight,"

In other words, the Constitution prohibited Congress from even trying to pass a law to limit the slave trade for 20 years.  At the end of that 20 years, Congress would then be permitted to pass a law limit the slave trade, but there was absolutely no guarantee that would actually happen.  In other words, the Constitution not only punted the issue of the slave trade - it actually prohibited future Congress from even considering the issue.  It was actually worse than if the Constitution had said absolutely nothing about the slave trade.

That's a pretty heavy moral compromise for those who opposed the slave trade on grounds of principle -- and there were many of them.

I was referring to Obamacare, not the slave trade. Enacted at once, went into effect over time. However, considering both concern ownership of another human, I can understand your confusion.

[the_doc]

It is the oft-used tactic of the Left to attack anyone who stands on principle and refuses to bend and compromise with evil as being a self-righteous Pharisee that stands on the corner so everyone can see them pray.

I see that same thing from Homosexual Marriage advocates.  I see that same thing from self-identifying Christians who are abortion proponents. 

There is a big difference between standing on a corner so everyone can see you pray out loud so you can create the illusion you are religious - and standing against evil and tyranny while praying in secret.

The truth of the matter is, too many people LIKE evil and tyranny and HATE those who stand against it.  So they accuse us of being Pharisees for the purpose of shaming us into silence and capitulation.

That tactic does not work on me.

Compromise is not wrong in principle. Compromises with a vendor over the cost of goods or services, for example, are morally neutral.  But compromises with evil are always evil, as you point out.   

I would even go so far as to say that the slavery compromises contained in the original U.S. Constitution were evil, because slavery is evil.  Some of our Framers knew this, but their sworn (?) priority was to establish these United States as best as they could, and there are strong indications that many of them prayed that the new Nation would be able to weather the moral mess inherent in their compromise. 

Well, America weathered it in a less than lovely way.  It only cost us 600,000 deaths in the War Between the States, a war that also started the avalanche that has practically destroyed true federalism.

Here is the object lesson:  compromising with evil is never justified--even when it seems to be.  (That axiom, by the way, helps to explain why I didn't vote for Trump. )

[INVAR]

Compromise is not wrong in principle. Compromises with a vendor over the cost of goods or services, for example, are morally neutral.  But compromises with evil are always evil, as you point out.   

I would even go so far as to say that the slavery compromises contained in the original U.S. Constitution were evil, because slavery is evil.  Some of our Framers knew this, but their sworn (?) priority was to establish these United States as best as they could, and there are strong indications that many of them prayed that the new Nation would be able to weather the moral mess inherent in their compromise. 

Well, America weathered it in a less than lovely way.  It only cost us 600,000 deaths in the War Between the States, a war that also started the avalanche that has practically destroyed true federalism.

Here is the object lesson:  compromising with evil is never justified--even when it seems to be.  (That axiom, by the way, helps to explain why I didn't vote for Trump. )

You run the risk of being accused of being a Pharisee and making the perfect the enemy of the good because you do not embrace pragmatism as an operating principle above all else.

Principles are just guidelines to strive for by compromising with sin and evil in order to enjoy peace and security while you are able to have it.

[corbe]

   Those dam Conservatives, continue to call his Bluff and he keeps tweetin'...

Donald J. Trump
✔  ‎@realDonaldTrump 

The failing @nytimes finally gets it - "In places where no insurance company offers plans, there will be no way for ObamaCare customers to..

10:59 AM - 1 Apr 2017


 Donald J. Trump
✔  ‎@realDonaldTrump 

...use subsidies to buy health plans." In other words, Ocare is dead. Good things will happen, however, either with Republicans or Dems.

11:06 AM - 1 Apr 2017

[the_doc]

You run the risk of being accused of being a Pharisee and making the perfect the enemy of the good because you do not embrace pragmatism as an operating principle above all else.

Principles are just guidelines to strive for by compromising with sin and evil in order to enjoy peace and security while you are able to have it.

LOL!

Pharisees are little more than guys who lower the heart-and-soul standards of true righteousness until they can claim for themselves sinless perfectionism--and attack others, of course.  That is narcissism run amok. 

The Pharisees of the New Testament never felt they needed to ask for forgiveness from God (where else have we seen that?), and they leveled viciously dishonest accusations against a genuinely good man (where else have we seen that?). 

Anyway, you and I are not at all qualified to be Pharisees.  We are admittedly lousy sinners.  We just feel the sociopolitical need to warn others about the hypocrisy of professed Republicans who aren't properly concerned about the state of the Republic--which is necessarily a Constitutional concern. 

Political pragmatism when the Constitution is at stake is RINOism.  No one who is not a Constitutional Republican has any right to be called anything but a Republican in Name Only.  Heck, political pragmatism on the part of self-serving, lying, cowardly, deal-making RINOs is the wicked mess that accounts for our modern slide of Creeping Socialism, now getting uncomfortably close to a complete collapse of America as we know it.

Everything about Obamacare was contemptuous of the Constitution.  And now the RINOs have revealed themselves as powermongers who play political shell games at our expense.  Like so many bullies, they are actually too cowardly to do the hard work of reversing our Constitutional slide downhill.  They don't even have the guts to keep their promise to repeal a widely unpopular, much less unconstitutional law so as to start over from scratch to help those who are being crushed so the Socialists can play their class warfare games to destroy America. 

I would specifically say that the "Centrists" in the title of the article are a Band of Political Bastards (i.e., phony brothers in American liberty) who won't even negotiate (oooh, compromise?) with real Republicans over monumentally serious concerns about RINO-Care (which earned only a woeful 17% national popularity, mind you).  The Pubbies who dig in their heels and malign us genuine conservatives as nasty-spirited, stupid "purists" are just nasty-spirit, stupid "purists" themselves. 

As Ted Cruz pointed out in a recent town hall meeting, the smarmy GOPe guys do not care a flip about their constituents (or by extension, I would say, their country).  I SAY WE NEED TO THROW 'EM ALL OUT.

Our government is becoming one of the most corrupt in the world.  The GOPe is a huge part of the D.C. swamp--which is why I don't see any draining getting started.  Trump is just suctioning at the outfall of the swamp to pretend that he is doing what needs to be done.

(Among other things, we need to see criminal prosecutions--LOTS of them.)   
 

[DB]

Compromise is not wrong in principle. Compromises with a vendor over the cost of goods or services, for example, are morally neutral.  But compromises with evil are always evil, as you point out.   

I would even go so far as to say that the slavery compromises contained in the original U.S. Constitution were evil, because slavery is evil.  Some of our Framers knew this, but their sworn (?) priority was to establish these United States as best as they could, and there are strong indications that many of them prayed that the new Nation would be able to weather the moral mess inherent in their compromise. 

Well, America weathered it in a less than lovely way.  It only cost us 600,000 deaths in the War Between the States, a war that also started the avalanche that has practically destroyed true federalism.

Here is the object lesson:  compromising with evil is never justified--even when it seems to be.  (That axiom, by the way, helps to explain why I didn't vote for Trump. )

Once you fold on one of your core principles, all your core principles are compromised. The foundation you stand on has been broken.

[DB]

LOL!

Pharisees are little more than guys who lower the heart-and-soul standards of true righteousness until they can claim for themselves sinless perfectionism--and attack others, of course.  That is narcissism run amok. 

The Pharisees of the New Testament never felt they needed to ask for forgiveness from God (where else have we seen that?), and they leveled viciously dishonest accusations against a genuinely good man (where else have we seen that?). 

Anyway, you and I are not at all qualified to be Pharisees.  We are admittedly lousy sinners.  We just feel the sociopolitical need to warn others about the hypocrisy of professed Republicans who aren't properly concerned about the state of the Republic--which is necessarily a Constitutional concern. 

Political pragmatism when the Constitution is at stake is RINOism.  No one who is not a Constitutional Republican has any right to be called anything but a Republican in Name Only.  Heck, political pragmatism on the part of self-serving, lying, cowardly, deal-making RINOs is the wicked mess that accounts for our modern slide of Creeping Socialism, now getting uncomfortably close to a complete collapse of America as we know it.

Everything about Obamacare was contemptuous of the Constitution.  And now the RINOs have revealed themselves as powermongers who play political shell games at our expense.  Like so many bullies, they are actually too cowardly to do the hard work of reversing our Constitutional slide downhill.  They don't even have the guts to keep their promise to repeal a widely unpopular, much less unconstitutional law so as to start over from scratch to help those who are being crushed so the Socialists can play their class warfare games to destroy America. 

I would specifically say that the "Centrists" in the title of the article are a Band of Political Bastards (i.e., phony brothers in American liberty) who won't even negotiate (oooh, compromise?) with real Republicans over monumentally serious concerns about RINO-Care (which earned only a woeful 17% national popularity, mind you).  The Pubbies who dig in their heels and malign us genuine conservatives as nasty-spirited, stupid "purists" are just nasty-spirit, stupid "purists" themselves. 

As Ted Cruz pointed out in a recent town hall meeting, the smarmy GOPe guys do not care a flip about their constituents (or by extension, I would say, their country).  I SAY WE NEED TO THROW 'EM ALL OUT.

Our government is becoming one of the most corrupt in the world.  The GOPe is a huge part of the D.C. swamp--which is why I don't see any draining getting started.  Trump is just suctioning at the outfall of the swamp to pretend that he is doing what needs to be done.

(Among other things, we need to see criminal prosecutions--LOTS of them.)   
 

Excellent analysis!

[the_doc]

Once you fold on one of your core principles, all your core principles are compromised. The foundation you stand on has been broken.

Good point, DB!  (Thanks for your courteous input.)

I like to think of convictions as not merely those views that you happen to hold, but those views that hold you.  Genuine conservative convictions necessarily produce rock-ribbed conservatives.  We have only a handful of these guys and gals in our amazingly corrupt capital. 

I have heard it said that hell will not be hot enough for most of our political leaders.  I am convinced, on the other hand, that it most certainly will be.