Is GOP Health Care Bill a Disaster? No (This explains it)

[endicom]

Power Line
John Hinderaker
Mar. 8, 2017

Peter Nelson, my colleague at Center of the American Experiment, is one of the country’s leading experts on health care policy. On the Center’s web site, he urges conservatives to take a deep breath and understand the constraints that Congressional Republicans are working under.

In particular, a full repeal of Obamacare must get through the Senate, which means it must get 60 votes. There are only 52 Republican senators. Therefore, the first bill that has been unveiled is intended to be passed under the reconciliation process, which requires only a bare majority. Only Obamacare provisions that have a budgetary impact can be repealed in the reconciliation bill. Other measures will have to follow afterward. Peter writes:

    Critics do have reason to complain and demand change, but the current response recklessly sets up the expectation of a full repeal among those in the conservative base, an expectation that Congress cannot meet. Upon failing to meet this expectation, the base may become needlessly demoralized and distrustful.

More... http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/03/is-gop-health-care-bill-a-disaster-no.php

[Hoodat]

he urges conservatives to take a deep breath and understand the constraints that Congressional Republicans are working under.

The only constraints that Republicans are working under are weak spines.   And a propensity for printing money to ensure their re-elections with bigger government.

[DB]

If you are going to take the blame for something, make sure what you get blamed for is your fault.

In other words, be bold and do the right thing and take the heat for doing it. You're going to take the heat either way, make it count.

[INVAR]

The only constraints that Republicans are working under are weak spines.   And a propensity for printing money to ensure their re-elections with bigger government.

^^^THIS!!

Defund it. Kill it.  Make it worthless.

But they won't.  Now will come all the excuses why they can't do this, they can't do that - and they can only further the Democrat agenda and bloated government.

Anyone who votes Republican and thinks they are going to slow, stop or put a dent in Federal Central Statism are clueless fools and imbeciles who only believe in spoon-fed party politics.

[endicom]

I've been holding back on judgment for not knowing the ins and outs of congressional procedure and because they've been saying that this is but phase one of the 'repeal' process.

This Peter Nelson could of course be wrong but he at least knows how things work.

[Jazzhead]

If you are going to take the blame for something, make sure what you get blamed for is your fault.

In other words, be bold and do the right thing and take the heat for doing it. You're going to take the heat either way, make it count.

That's not the point.  Full repeal isn't possible - the votes aren't there.   A conservative martyr is a conservative fool.   What CAN be achieved are changes that end the mandates,  expand choices, lower costs, curb the subsidies in favor of tax credits and other changes that encourage consumerism,  allow insurance market to punish free riders,  and provide far more affordability for "average" Americans than the ACA.

That's incremental progress.   It beats martyrdom, and it sure beats the ACA. 




 

[DB]

I've been holding back on judgment for not knowing the ins and outs of congressional procedure and because they've been saying that this is but phase one of the 'repeal' process.

This Peter Nelson could of course be wrong but he at least knows how things work.

How much "phasing in" did the Democrats do with Obamacare?

But the truth is, Trump campaigned on what they're doing and what they are doing is the big government solution he promised. Preexisting conditions have to be covered and the "government is going to pay for it" and that's what we're getting... Those two things remove any market solution.

Trump said what he wanted to do and those who voted for him are getting what they voted for.

[INVAR]

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' King George III's rule over the colonies.

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

You cannot 'phase out' tyranny via incrementalism.

You end it.

Decisively.

Without remorse or mercy.

You end it.

There is no such thing as 'incremental progress' in restoring or preserving Constitutional limits on government. 

There is only incremental tyranny to expand the State being imposed by government.

[Chosen Daughter]

How much "phasing in" did the Democrats do with Obamacare?

But the truth is, Trump campaigned on what they're doing and what they are doing is the big government solution he promised. Preexisting conditions have to be covered and the "government is going to pay for it" and that's what we're getting... Those two things remove any market solution.

Trump said what he wanted to do and those who voted for him are getting what they voted for.

Exactly.

People elected big government.  He said his health care plan would not get him votes but it did.  People were not paying attention or the wall overshadowed his Universal Health Care plan.

I want to know what's in it for illegal aliens.

[corbe]

That's not the point.  Full repeal isn't possible - the votes aren't there.   A conservative martyr is a conservative fool.   What CAN be achieved are changes that end the mandates,  expand choices, lower costs, curb the subsidies in favor of tax credits and other changes that encourage consumerism,  allow insurance market to punish free riders,  and provide far more affordability for "average" Americans than the ACA.

That's incremental progress.   It beats martyrdom, and it sure beats the ACA. 

   BS @Jazzhead a simple Repeal like the one obummer vetoed in 2015, would pass even without VP Pence, and as someone mentioned earlier these spineless bastards are gonna have to go nuclear anyway, eventually, to get anything beyond Repeal done, so:

[Frank Cannon]

The only constraints that Republicans are working under are weak spines.   And a propensity for printing money to ensure their re-elections with bigger government.

Exactly. There is only one reason that this Obamacare repeal is all of a sudden a problem. The Insurance Co lobbyists have their wallets open and are trying to keep all their kick backs intact.

[Hoodat]

That's not the point.  Full repeal isn't possible - the votes aren't there.

BS.  What was done by reconciliation can be undone by reconciliation.  And funding it this year requires further legislative action.  Funny how the votes seem to be there for that year after year after year, yet you claim that somehow the votes aren't there not to fund it.  Again, BS.

A conservative martyr is a conservative fool.

Who said anything about being a martyr?  Just get the federal government the hell out of the insurance market.  Period.  And anyone choosing anything other than that simply isn't a Conservative.

What CAN be achieved are changes that end the mandates,  expand choices, lower costs, curb the subsidies in favor of tax credits and other changes that encourage consumerism,  allow insurance market to punish free riders,  and provide far more affordability for "average" Americans than the ACA.

Ending the mandates?  So you are in favor of dropping mandatory coverage for adult children of the insured up to age 26?  You are in favor of allowing insurers the right to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions?  You are in favor of ending penalties on employers who do not offer insurance to their employees?

[Hoodat]

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' King George III's rule over the colonies.

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

You cannot 'phase out' tyranny via incrementalism.

You end it.

Decisively.

Without remorse or mercy.

You end it.

There is no such thing as 'incremental progress' in restoring or preserving Constitutional limits on government. 

There is only incremental tyranny to expand the State being imposed by government.

Word.

[Jazzhead]

BS.  What was done by reconciliation can be undone by reconciliation.  And funding it this year requires further legislative action.  Funny how the votes seem to be there for that year after year after year, yet you claim that somehow the votes aren't there not to fund it.  Again, BS.

You're venting,  but that still won't convince Senators with their jobs on the line to just get rid of the ACA and return to the status quo ante.    You may not care about being a martyr, but it's not why they signed up to do the peoples' business.   The people knew Trump's position too - repair, not repeal.   

And anyone choosing anything other than that simply isn't a Conservative.

And who made you pope of this dump?   

Ending the mandates? 

  Yep, the AHCA does that. 

  So you are in favor of dropping mandatory coverage for adult children of the insured up to age 26? 

In theory, sure.  More choices in the marketplace mean lower costs.  But in reality,  this is a middle class gift - this is what the Dems used to sell the ACA. 

   You are in favor of allowing insurers the right to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions? 

   I like the way the AHCA handles this.   An insurance company cannot deny coverage for a preexisting condition,  but can punish free riders with higher rates. 

You are in favor of ending penalties on employers who do not offer insurance to their employees?

Yes and no.   I think the employer mandate could be used creatively to wean the U.S. off its employment-based health care financing system,  but that's the radical in me.  In reality,  it's a compliance hassle that costs jobs.   Yeah, the AHCA is right to get rid of it.   

[Jazzhead]

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' King George III's rule over the colonies.

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

You cannot 'phase out' tyranny via incrementalism.

You end it.

Decisively.

Without remorse or mercy.

You end it.

There is no such thing as 'incremental progress' in restoring or preserving Constitutional limits on government. 

There is only incremental tyranny to expand the State being imposed by government.

This is chest-beating nonsense.   

[Hoodat]

   I like the way the AHCA handles this.   An insurance company cannot deny coverage for a preexisting condition,  but can punish free riders with higher rates. 

Then you are in favor of mandates.

[Norm Lenhart]

That's not the point.  Full repeal isn't possible - the votes aren't there.   A conservative martyr is a conservative fool.   What CAN be achieved are changes that end the mandates,  expand choices, lower costs, curb the subsidies in favor of tax credits and other changes that encourage consumerism,  allow insurance market to punish free riders,  and provide far more affordability for "average" Americans than the ACA.

That's incremental progress.   It beats martyrdom, and it sure beats the ACA.

Sure they are. Thats why you keep pushing the meme they arent. We don't want your Obamacare 'progress. America wants an end to Obamacare, it's failures and your socialized medicine.

[Norm Lenhart]

Then you are in favor of mandates.

He has admitted it often.

[Norm Lenhart]

This is chest-beating nonsense.

No it's simple truth.

[INVAR]

This is chest-beating nonsense.

Right.  Because we slowly and incrementally ended the tyranny of the crown via legislation and olive branch petitions.

We stopped Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany via slow progressive incrementalism.

You spout moronic bullshiite because you have no intelligent or adult response to an historical fact.

The Liberal-Statist excrement nonsense you post here ad-infinitum isn't even masculine enough to warrant chest-beating.

[The_Reader_David]

How much "phasing in" did the Democrats do with Obamacare?

Of course the answer is very little (not none, the penalties for lacking health insurance were phased in).

On the other hand, the Democrats violated the ancient principle of medicine, "First do no harm."  We can hope that conservatives (at least) and Republicans (perhaps) will be more mindful of that principle when unwinding the mess that Obamacare created on top of the mess that tying health insurance to employment had already created.

[endicom]

How much "phasing in" did the Democrats do with Obamacare?

They had the votes to get the ACA passed and that's what matters. If what this Peter Nelson is saying is correct then the Pubs have the simple majority of votes needed to undo some of the ACA but not the 60 votes necessary for outright repeal.

I want to hear from Ryan or Bueller or anyone what is the plan going forward. What will we end up with and when will that be.

[The_Reader_David]

We didn't incrementally 'phase out' Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan.

Actually, we did.  First we began very gradually by pushing the Nazis out of North Africa, then southern Italy, getting rid of the Japanese carrier fleet, pushing the Nazis out of bits of France, the Japanese out of the Philippines,...

But war is a lousy analogy for public policy changes.

[corbe]

@The_Reader_David  you always quibble over insignificant details /s

[Suppressed]

   BS @Jazzhead a simple Repeal like the one obummer vetoed in 2015, would pass even without VP Pence

You really think so?

Which Dems would vote for it? Cuz there certainly aren't enough GOP votes for it.