Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?

[Elderberry]

[Smokin Joe]

Weird......I am referring only to WACO.  That is one incident.  Ruby Ridge was another horror.  I believe Lon Horiucci was the shooter of the mother holding the baby.  He skated and Louie Freeh actually sought a promotion for him but the outrage was too great.

The CS was inserted into the Mt. Carmel complex at Waco with CEVs on the last day of the siege.
Ruby Ridge was the original topic...
and it came up was that it was BEFORE, Waco, not after it as is sometimes thought. The escalation of Federal force is apparent when that is considered. It behooves us to recall both incidents, among others.

Funny how talking about both, I spaced which the thread started out on...

[Bigun]

The Ruby Ridge standoff was first (August 21-August 30, 1992).  The Waco Massacre came a few months later (February 28 -April 19, 1993). 

The Ruby Ridge incident occurred near the end of the GHWB administration.  The Waco debacle was in the first year of Clinton's administration.

The Ruby Ridge incident was absolutely disgusting, to be sure, but the Waco massacre was an order of magnitude more horrific. A sergeant with the Texas Rangers told me that David Koresh had been willing to surrender to the Texas Rangers, but the Feds refused to allow that.  In other words, the Feds could have defused the situation, but they were not interested.

The only four Feds killed during the Waco siege were Secret Service agents who had formerly served on Clinton's Presidential Protection Detail.  A lot of folks in Texas believe that the Waco debacle was a body-laundering operation for Clinton.  The Ranger I talked to said that practically everything the Feds did in the siege and its aftermath and in the subsequent investigation was over-the-top crooked.

The Rangers hated the Feds at that time--and probably still don't trust them any further than they can spit.   

A former head of  the Texas Rangers  grew up right across the street from me.  He was at Waco and  pretty much confired all that you said to me several times.  The feds he rails most about are the dip dunks at ATF and he is entirely right 'about them. 

[montanajoe]

Old Jerry is an old school lawyer whom I respect and admire.

In law schools it is still taught that the lawyer is obligated to give the client the best effort they are capable of regardless of their personal  political belief's. However, many in the legal profession today will only represent a client who agrees with their political philosophy.

That trend represents a great loss to both the American legal system and to the country as a whole...

[Smokin Joe]

Old Jerry is an old school lawyer whom I respect and admire.

In law schools it is still taught that the lawyer is obligated to give the client the best effort they are capable of regardless of their personal  political belief's. However, many in the legal profession today will only represent a client who agrees with their political philosophy.

That trend represents a great loss to both the American legal system and to the country as a whole...

Agreed all around. Gerry Spence is a man of principle. Sometimes that means you stand up for someone's rights, even when you disagree with their beliefs.

[Bigun]

Well, I guess that raises the question of how the TNG got roped into that operation.

Probably by the direct order of Ma Richards who was the governor at the time.

[geronl]

These 3 or 4 SF NCO's babysitting,but NOT operating classified electronics,at Waco is what lead to the charges the active duty US Army was involved in the attack on the compound. They weren't.

and the tanks

[sneakypete]

and the tanks

@geronl

True,the media,who seem to claim to know everything,somehow didn't understand the marking on the tanks were NG markings,or even what that meant.

Why,if I didn't know better,I would think that no one in supervisory positions in the national media had ever served a day in the military,or even knew anything about the military. (/s)

[Smokin Joe]

@geronl

True,the media,who seem to claim to know everything,somehow didn't understand the marking on the tanks were NG markings,or even what that meant.

Why,if I didn't know better,I would think that no one in supervisory positions in the national media had ever served a day in the military,or even knew anything about the military. (/s)

Oh, come on pete, I'd bet a bunch of them have either seen NG vehicles before (just before the protest was broken up) and some of them have even sat at (enemy) antiaircraft guns...