Author Topic: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?  (Read 8794 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« on: March 08, 2017, 03:31:30 PM »
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/introduction/ruby-ridge/

This is a pretty balanced 1 hour PBS documentary about the events that led up to the cluster-bleep at Ruby Ridge Idaho,what happened once some Fed panicked and shot teenage Sammy Weaver's dog that was barking at him,and the final result.

Pretty well balanced and has interviews with all of the main players except for Lon Horiuchi  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi), a piece of semi-human garbage that I sincerely hope someone tracked down and gave him what he so richly deserved. Since he is not mentioned,I am assuming that he is unfortunately still alive and still in hiding.

AFAIK,the feral government has never identified the US Marshall that shot 14 year old Sammy Weaver in the back and killed him,either. I'm sure his name was mentioned in the wrongful death lawsuit the Weaver Family flied and won against the US Government,but it has never been made public.

The only other scab I have to pick with the producers is they mention "senior FBI officials gave the order to the snipers that they MUST fire if they saw a target." They should have named names. No,this doesn't justify Horiuchi murdering an innocent woman standing in a doorway and holding a baby in her arms,but the Feebs that gave the order deserve the same justice as the shooter. Horiuchi,as a proud cog in the machine that was the FBI would have never dared fire on a unarmed woman holding a baby without those orders.

For those of you too young to remember this,or who happened to be living on another planet when it happened,this was THE event that let the feral government come to an actual understanding that they had been pushing too far,and because of what they did at Ruby Ridge,they came DAMN close to kicking off another American revolution. The Feral agents shown live at the roadblocks,and even the Feeb officials interviewed on tv were terrified,and you could see it in their eyes.

This was after the Janet Reno-ordered attack on the Church full of loons at Waco,Texas,and even people who were not a part of what is called the "gun culture" or right-wing politics were getting disturbed at the violent criminal actions of our out of control government. Ruby Ridge came damn close to being One Step Too Far,and the government knew it and backed off.

All in all it is pretty balanced reporting,and is bound to be a real eye-opener for anyone who wasn't alive at that time.

It was aired this week on my local PBS station,and is most likely available in the archives of your PBS station,or can be viewed at the link.

A hour well-spent. Especially for those of  you who don't remember it.
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Online skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 22,068
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2017, 03:39:20 PM »
I vividly remember the news media smearing Weaver as a white supremacist as the standoff continued.

I still have difficulty imagining how any man who considers themselves normal well adjusted and civilized could peer through a Leopold Mark 6 scope at a unarmed woman holding a child, who doesn't even know you're there, and intentionally pull the trigger.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2017, 03:58:11 PM »
I vividly remember the news media smearing Weaver as a white supremacist as the standoff continued.

I still have difficulty imagining how any man who considers themselves normal well adjusted and civilized could peer through a Leopold Mark 6 scope at a unarmed woman holding a child, who doesn't even know you're there, and intentionally pull the trigger.

@skeeter

I thought I had all that buried,but after watching this documentary last night (I had recorded it), I got so mad again that I actually got a little bit dizzzy. ALL this happened because some feral government shithead wannabe commando with no balls shot the pet dog of a 14 year old boy because the dog gave his position away by barking at him. If the SOB hadn't been there trespassing on private property the dog would have never smelled him and barked at him,and IF he had the IQ OR the morality of a tomato plant he would have just shrugged it off as "one of those things" and retreated. He didn't.  He shot the dog,so quite naturally the 14 year old boy who owned the dog fired back and killed either him or his partner in crime,and the surviving fed then shot the 14 year old boy that was running away in the back. He murdered 14 year old Sammy Weaver because he could,and because he knew he could get away with it.

Then to add insult to murder,he tried to claim he fired in self-defense because he was being shot at! Which leads me to wonder what kind of gun the dog was shooting,and how Sammy Weaver was still firing at the surviving fed while running away.

Oh,I forgot to mention and should because I know there will be people reading this who won't view the documentary. This all started because the Feebs wanted an informer inside a White Power group in Idaho. Weaver wasn't a neo-Nazi,a Kluxxer,or member of any other group. He was a "end-timer" that just wanted to be left alone with his family. He visiting the White Power compound because they were close,lots of them shared his fundie religious viewpoints,and most importantly,because he was invited and his wife and kids liked to have people to visit with. The Feebs admitted they KNEW he wasn't a member of any of those groups,but figured because he had a wife and kids he was somebody they could force to spy and inform for them because they set him up for a bogus federal firearms violation that could lead to a decade or more in prison if he refused to co-operate. His crime was he sawed the barrels off of a couple of shotguns for Feeb undercover agents,so thy threatened him with a Class 4 Firearms violation unless he cooperated.

He refused,and just kept him and his family on top of the mountain where their cabin was after that. He missed his court appearance,so they sicced the US Marshalls on him.
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Offline the_doc

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,172
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2017, 04:07:01 PM »
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/introduction/ruby-ridge/

For those of you too young to remember this,or who happened to be living on another planet when it happened,this was THE event that let the feral government come to an actual understanding that they had been pushing too far,and because of what they did at Ruby Ridge,they came DAMN close to kicking off another American revolution. The Feral agents shown live at the roadblocks,and even the Feeb officials interviewed on tv were terrified,and you could see it in their eyes.

This was after the Janet Reno-ordered attack on the Church full of loons at Waco,Texas,and even people who were not a part of what is called the "gun culture" or right-wing politics were getting disturbed at the violent criminal actions of our out of control government. Ruby Ridge came damn close to being One Step Too Far,and the government knew it and backed off.


The Ruby Ridge standoff was first (August 21-August 30, 1992).  The Waco Massacre came a few months later (February 28 -April 19, 1993). 

The Ruby Ridge incident occurred near the end of the GHWB administration.  The Waco debacle was in the first year of Clinton's administration.

The Ruby Ridge incident was absolutely disgusting, to be sure, but the Waco massacre was an order of magnitude more horrific. A sergeant with the Texas Rangers told me that David Koresh had been willing to surrender to the Texas Rangers, but the Feds refused to allow that.  In other words, the Feds could have defused the situation, but they were not interested.

The only four Feds killed during the Waco siege were Secret Service agents who had formerly served on Clinton's Presidential Protection Detail.  A lot of folks in Texas believe that the Waco debacle was a body-laundering operation for Clinton.  The Ranger I talked to said that practically everything the Feds did in the siege and its aftermath and in the subsequent investigation was over-the-top crooked.

The Rangers hated the Feds at that time--and probably still don't trust them any further than they can spit.   
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 04:39:06 PM by the_doc »

Online skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 22,068
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 04:11:55 PM »
@skeeter

I thought I had all that buried,but after watching this documentary last night (I had recorded it), I got so mad again that I actually got a little bit dizzzy. ALL this happened because some feral government shithead wannabe commando with no balls shot the pet dog of a 14 year old boy because the dog gave his position away by barking at him. If the SOB hadn't been there trespassing on private property the dog would have never smelled him and barked at him,and IF he had the IQ OR the morality of a tomato plant he would have just shrugged it off as "one of those things" and retreated. He didn't.  He shot the dog,so quite naturally the 14 year old boy who owned the dog fired back and killed either him or his partner in crime,and the surviving fed then shot the 14 year old boy that was running away in the back. He murdered 14 year old Sammy Weaver because he could,and because he knew he could get away with it.

Then to add insult to murder,he tried to claim he fired in self-defense because he was being shot at! Which leads me to wonder what kind of gun the dog was shooting,and how Sammy Weaver was still firing at the surviving fed while running away.

Oh,I forgot to mention and should because I know there will be people reading this who won't view the documentary. This all started because the Feebs wanted an informer inside a White Power group in Idaho. Weaver wasn't a neo-Nazi,a Kluxxer,or member of any other group. He was a "end-timer" that just wanted to be left alone with his family. He visiting the White Power compound because they were close,lots of them shared his fundie religious viewpoints,and most importantly,because he was invited and his wife and kids liked to have people to visit with. The Feebs admitted they KNEW he wasn't a member of any of those groups,but figured because he had a wife and kids he was somebody they could force to spy and inform for them because they set him up for a bogus federal firearms violation that could lead to a decade or more in prison if he refused to co-operate. His crime was he sawed the barrels off of a couple of shotguns for Feeb undercover agents,so thy threatened him with a Class 4 Firearms violation unless he cooperated.

He refused,and just kept him and his family on top of the mountain where their cabin was after that. He missed his court appearance,so they sicced the US Marshalls on him.

Maybe the most frustrating part of the whole episode for me was friends of mine buying the media BS, and not understanding the implications of what the incident and its aftermath meant. They were simply conditioned respect 'authority' and bark when they heard the phrase 'white supremacist'.

Oh, and one other person who still has yet to pay a price for her role in this tragedy is Diane Feinstein - her feigned concern as she smeared the man who recently lost his wife and son to the government's illegal use of lethal force. Its some consolation to know it won't be long before she faces the music.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 04:23:42 PM »
The Ruby Ridge standoff was first (August 21-August 30, 1992).  The Waco Massacre came a few months later (February 28 -August 19, 1993). 

The Ruby Ridge incident occurred near the end of the GHWB administration.  The Waco debacle was in the first year of Clinton's administration.

The Ruby Ridge incident was absolutely disgusting, to be sure, but the Waco massacre was an order of magnitude more horrific. A sergeant with the Texas Rangers told me that David Koresh had been willing to surrender to the Texas Rangers, but the Feds refused to allow that.  In other words, the Feds could have defused the situation, but they were not interested.

The only four Feds killed during the Waco siege were Secret Service agents who had formerly served on Clinton's Presidential Protection Detail.  A lot of folks in Texas believe that the Waco debacle was a body-laundering operation for Clinton.  The Ranger I talked to said that practically everything the Feds did in the siege and its aftermath and in the subsequent investigation was over-the-top crooked.

The Rangers hated the Feds at that time--and probably still don't trust them any further than they can spit.   

I stand corrected on the time-line,and agree with you on Waco being even more horrific. What caused me to reverse the time line was the documentary last night said that Hourichi had also been a sniper at Waco.

<I>The Ranger I talked to said that practically everything the Feds did in the siege and its aftermath and in the subsequent investigation was over-the-top crooked.</I>

The Feebs at Waco tried to get the US Army Special Forces involved,so DA ordered the Special Warfare Center to send down a couple of observers to see what they needed and make suggestions. IIRC,one was a Colonel,one was a SGM,and there were a couple of SFC radio guys as well as a couple of SF Delta-type NCO's. Basically,they went down there,took a look around and talked with the feds,and then told them to go piss up a rope and went back to Bragg,where the Special Warfare Center legal office sent the WH an official statement outlining how and why what they were being told to do was un-Constitutional. That was the last the SWC heard of that.

They DID keep a couple of senior NCO's down there to babysit some classified electronics gear they were ordered to loan out to the feds,though. They had to because from previous experience they knew that anything they lent to the feds tended to get "lost" if there were no babysitters watching it,and senior SF NCO's aren't easy people to intimidate no matter what kind of badge you flash at them. These 3 or 4 SF NCO's babysitting,but NOT operating classified electronics,at Waco is what lead to the charges the active duty US Army was involved in the attack on the compound. They weren't.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 04:24:24 PM by sneakypete »
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Online skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 22,068
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 04:43:19 PM »
I stand corrected on the time-line,and agree with you on Waco being even more horrific. What caused me to reverse the time line was the documentary last night said that Hourichi had also been a sniper at Waco.

Yes he was. From Wiki: Three of the twelve expended .308 Winchester shell cases that the Texas Rangers reported finding in the house were at Horiuchi's position. However, officials maintain that they could have been left behind from the earlier use of the house by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives snipers on February 28, 1993, and that it would be "nearly impossible" to match them to Horiuchi's rifle, as it had probably been rebarreled since that time.[11]

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2017, 07:17:50 PM »
Yes he was. From Wiki: Three of the twelve expended .308 Winchester shell cases that the Texas Rangers reported finding in the house were at Horiuchi's position. However, officials maintain that they could have been left behind from the earlier use of the house by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives snipers on February 28, 1993, and that it would be "nearly impossible" to match them to Horiuchi's rifle, as it had probably been rebarreled since that time.[11]

@skeeter

The "been rebarreled" excuse is mostly bullbush. They could still match the head of the cartridge cases with the bolt face and the extractor.

Unless of course the Feeb armorer replaced the extractor and polished the bolt face to make sure there could be no comparisons.
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,832
  • A light at the end of a tunnel, but not The Light.
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2017, 07:44:00 PM »
The Ruby Ridge standoff was first (August 21-August 30, 1992).  The Waco Massacre came a few months later (February 28 -April 19, 1993). 

The Ruby Ridge incident occurred near the end of the GHWB administration.  The Waco debacle was in the first year of Clinton's administration.
Thanks, Doc. That was what I remembered, too.

A number of Weaver's acquaintances were involved in White separatist or Supremacist movements. Because I had opposed gun control, I had a fellow bring me a copy of a copy of a copy of a tape made locally detailing the incident. Once I got past the rhetoric used, I realized what was going on. On the tape was included footage taken from a nearby ridge of a helo moving in with a suspended package below it that looked like an oil drum, and the narrator mentioned MOVE in Philly, and the incendiary that was dropped on the roof during that standoff.
It was also brought up that what began the incident was that Weaver was selling a couple of shotguns, and the Feds who came to buy them wanted them cut off "right there". Well Weaver apparently did as they asked, but "right there" was 1/8 inch too short to be legal, and he was threatened with prosecution or given the option of informing on his neighbors. Weaver refused to be an informant. When the warrant was issued and order to appear were sent out, Weaver apparently ignored them, which was what brought the people to snoop on his hill in the first place. After all, Federal Agencies do not respond well to people refusing their largesse (the 'deal'). Imho, this was entrapment from the git go, but it got much worse.

During the standoff, there were protesters on the road, across the creek from a meadow with the tree line on the other side. People who had access to the area afterwards said there were vacated machine gun positions in the treeline, facing the meadow, left over from the Federal siege. Had it not been for Bo Gritz and the protesters, there is a solid chance that Weaver and his entire family and  Kevin Harris. An account of the events which pretty well coincidew with what I heard through various sources can be found here: http://www.survivalistboards.com/showpost.php?p=1248839
The folks I obtained that information from have moved away and I have lost contact with them, but that was an eye opener, THE eye opener, that really caused me to question Waco.
Quote
The Ruby Ridge incident was absolutely disgusting, to be sure, but the Waco massacre was an order of magnitude more horrific. A sergeant with the Texas Rangers told me that David Koresh had been willing to surrender to the Texas Rangers, but the Feds refused to allow that.  In other words, the Feds could have defused the situation, but they were not interested.

The only four Feds killed during the Waco siege were Secret Service agents who had formerly served on Clinton's Presidential Protection Detail.  A lot of folks in Texas believe that the Waco debacle was a body-laundering operation for Clinton.  The Ranger I talked to said that practically everything the Feds did in the siege and its aftermath and in the subsequent investigation was over-the-top crooked.

The Rangers hated the Feds at that time--and probably still don't trust them any further than they can spit.   
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 26,212
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 07:51:37 PM »
Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?

Absolutely. They were a dynamic country music duo from the 60's...


Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,832
  • A light at the end of a tunnel, but not The Light.
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 07:56:37 PM »
I stand corrected on the time-line,and agree with you on Waco being even more horrific. What caused me to reverse the time line was the documentary last night said that Hourichi had also been a sniper at Waco.

<I>The Ranger I talked to said that practically everything the Feds did in the siege and its aftermath and in the subsequent investigation was over-the-top crooked.</I>

The Feebs at Waco tried to get the US Army Special Forces involved,so DA ordered the Special Warfare Center to send down a couple of observers to see what they needed and make suggestions. IIRC,one was a Colonel,one was a SGM,and there were a couple of SFC radio guys as well as a couple of SF Delta-type NCO's. Basically,they went down there,took a look around and talked with the feds,and then told them to go piss up a rope and went back to Bragg,where the Special Warfare Center legal office sent the WH an official statement outlining how and why what they were being told to do was un-Constitutional. That was the last the SWC heard of that.

They DID keep a couple of senior NCO's down there to babysit some classified electronics gear they were ordered to loan out to the feds,though. They had to because from previous experience they knew that anything they lent to the feds tended to get "lost" if there were no babysitters watching it,and senior SF NCO's aren't easy people to intimidate no matter what kind of badge you flash at them. These 3 or 4 SF NCO's babysitting,but NOT operating classified electronics,at Waco is what lead to the charges the active duty US Army was involved in the attack on the compound. They weren't.
The timeline confusion is something I have seen before in the MSM, and the incidents are often presented in reverse order. I think that was to give the impression that the Feds were getting less murderous when in fact, the nature of those operations was increasingly vicious.

As for military involvement, the helos, the CEVs and Bradleys sure didn't look like they picked them up from Junior Samples' lot.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Online skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 22,068
  • Gender: Male
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 08:01:01 PM »
Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?

Absolutely. They were a dynamic country music duo from the 60's...



This shot was apparently taken after Ruby's sex reassignment surgery.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2017, 08:07:55 PM »


As for military involvement, the helos, the CEVs and Bradleys sure didn't look like they picked them up from Junior Samples' lot.

@Smokin Joe

They belonged to the Texas National Guard,and were under the control of the STATE government,not the feral government. Governors can use the NG and it's assets as law enforcement tools,but presidents can't.
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,832
  • A light at the end of a tunnel, but not The Light.
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2017, 08:09:01 PM »
@Smokin Joe

They belonged to the Texas National Guard,and were under the control of the STATE government,not the feral government. Governors can use the NG and it's assets as law enforcement tools,but presidents can't.
Well, I guess that raises the question of how the TNG got roped into that operation.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline the_doc

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,172
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2017, 08:13:47 PM »
@Smokin Joe

They belonged to the Texas National Guard,and were under the control of the STATE government,not the feral government. Governors can use the NG and it's assets as law enforcement tools,but presidents can't.

With the repeal of Posse Comitatus a few years ago, I think a POTUS can now use the military for law enforcement on American soil.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2017, 08:48:05 PM »
Well, I guess that raises the question of how the TNG got roped into that operation.

@Smokin Joe

That's easy. The President asked the Governor of Texas to lend them to him,and with images of federal grant money dancing in his (or her?) head,the tanks and helicopters were lent out.

Technically,if a state Governor says "no",the president can't even call up the NG in case of war.
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 29,819
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2017, 08:48:58 PM »
With the repeal of Posse Comitatus a few years ago, I think a POTUS can now use the military for law enforcement on American soil.

@the_doc

I don't think that happened because I don't think it would be Constitutional.
The Democratic Party has declared war on America.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,832
  • A light at the end of a tunnel, but not The Light.
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2017, 09:11:46 PM »
@the_doc

I don't think that happened because I don't think it would be Constitutional.
The Posse Comitatus Act 1878 is a law and it can be repealed same as any other law. I don't want to see that happen. Like any law, if the people holding the badges aren't seeing things happen, no law was officially broken.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline montanajoe

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,332
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2017, 09:23:19 PM »
As I recall the family hired Jerry Spence to represent them in the ensuing lawsuit...they did very well financially at least

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,832
  • A light at the end of a tunnel, but not The Light.
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2017, 09:30:40 PM »
As I recall the family hired Jerry Spence to represent them in the ensuing lawsuit...they did very well financially at least
Mr. Spence took the case pro bono.

Read this (Letter from Gerry Spence to a Jewish friend who had urged him to not take the case.)

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/spenceletter.html
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Rivergirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,037
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 09:34:23 PM »
General Wesley Clark provided the tank for the WACO assault on the compound.  Further, illegal gas was shot into the compound causing the fire. This was one of the most abusive acts by the federal government.
Bill Clinton skated on this horrific assault and the resulting deaths of innocent men, women, and children.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 15,252
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 09:36:13 PM »
General Wesley Clark provided the tank for the WACO assault on the compound.  Further, illegal gas was shot into the compound causing the fire. This was one of the most abusive acts by the federal government.
Bill Clinton skated on this horrific assault and the resulting deaths of innocent men, women, and children.


Two different incidents.

Offline Rivergirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,037
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 09:37:56 PM »
One of the reasons for the horrific loss of life in New Orleans, also laid at the feet of Bill Clinton, was the refusal of the governor to release the National Guard to GWBush.  He in turn, honored the posse comitatus act and did not seize the NG.
When we look into the truth about the Clinton's you see an underbelly of evil doings.  The worst, to date.
Clinton was encouraging the Governor to resist GWB in his request to take over the NG. 
It was all about FEMA funds, and frankly, I don't recall all the details.  The loss of life speaks for itself.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,832
  • A light at the end of a tunnel, but not The Light.
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 09:38:45 PM »
General Wesley Clark provided the tank for the WACO assault on the compound.  Further, illegal gas was shot into the compound causing the fire. This was one of the most abusive acts by the federal government.
Bill Clinton skated on this horrific assault and the resulting deaths of innocent men, women, and children.
Actually, that was CS powder using Methylene Chloride for the liquid carrier.

Methylene chloride is used in carburetor cleaner and will burn. Read what OSHA has to say about it https://www.osha.gov/Publications/osha3144.html and remember, this was done "for the children".
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Rivergirl

  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3,037
Re: Anyone remember Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 09:40:34 PM »
Weird......I am referring only to WACO.  That is one incident.  Ruby Ridge was another horror.  I believe Lon Horiucci was the shooter of the mother holding the baby.  He skated and Louie Freeh actually sought a promotion for him but the outrage was too great.


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf