Is California Really Going to Secede?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Pretty sure this was solved in 1865.

[Elderberry]

They'd never survive.

I agree.



             Gross_Domestic_Product_of_California_2008

[Sanguine]

I actively look for locally and American grown products. I bought some Grand Traverse bay perch last week.

I do without fresh tomatoes now, until my start producing in late spring.  I can find Alaskan salmon though (but, not in the produce section.)

[bigheadfred]

OK people. Heads up. If California secedes I am putting all my money into icebergs.

Meaning the big elephant in the room is water. Kalifornia has a huge water shortage problem. Between the libtards, envirowhackos, mass immigration, and stupidity their water problems will only get worse. They don't have the water for increased farming. They don't have the water for urban growth. Desalination may be the answer. But if they try to harvest icebergs from the good old U S of A they shall pay dearly.

[bigheadfred]

BTW, if Cali leaves we should invite the western half of Canada to join us.

[truth_seeker]

If they'd hold the secession vote on a county-by-county basis, I'd lobby my senators for their right to leave.  Only the LA-SF coastal counties would vote to go, and we'd be well rid of them.  I'd also extend the county-by-county vote to Oregon and Washington too.

Native here. As recently as GW Bush, San Diego, Orange, Ventura and San Luis Obispo counties along the coast voted Republican for President. (With around 7 million population, that is the size of an "average" state.)

By 2012 that was only Orange, and in 2016 even Orange voted for Hillary.

Within Orange County, less affluent areas go democrat, more affluent remain GOP. We still elect folks like Dana Rohrabacher, among the most solidly conservative members of the House.

Demographics and cultural changes continue moving California mostly leftward, with some exceptions.

Voted against gay-marriage, voted to keep death penalty.

Secession is highly unlikely.  The benefits of union outweigh the negatives.

[goatprairie]

Pretty sure this was solved in 1865.

[bigheadfred]

Pretty sure this was solved in 1865.

@truth_seeker

What about the two-state solution?

[Fishrrman]

Is California Really Going to Secede?

The easy answer seems to be "no", but things could get interesting.

At a time when much of flyover America is turning more red (witness the high numbers of State Legislatures under Republican control), California is moving in the opposite direction.

I daresay that (the issue of slavery aside) the populations of the states of Pennsylvania and South Carolina probably shared more "common values" in 1860 than do the populations of California and most of the other states today.

They seem to be gettin' beyond crazy out there.

Of course -- as truth seeker pointed out -- there remain conservative areas of the state. But then again, there has been a "separatist" movement out there for years, trying to start the state of "Jefferson".

Something like 32% of the state population wants to secede RIGHT NOW. How will those numbers change leading up to the 2018 ballot initiative to do so?

Prediction:
If the Trump administration is successful in their attempts to curb immigration, if the wall starts to go up, if deportations go up, if VISAs get cut -- watch for that 32% to start creeping up towards the 50% mark.

Suppose the secessionists win?
What then?

I believe after all is said and done, what may happen is that California may break apart into two (or even more) states. One (encompassing from L.A. to San Francisco) for the leftists, and the other(s) for those out there who still retain some sanity.

Republicans should welcome and encourage this, and then facilitate its happening.
A breakup of California will result in a United States that is MORE traditional-minded, not less so. In its aftermath, Republicans will have more chances to retain the reins of political power in the country, not fewer ...

[goatprairie]

"Suppose the secessionists win?"

Win what? Some popular poll? Nothing they will vote on will have any legal standing. The argument for secession was decided by the Civil War. There is nothing in the constitution that provides a way for states to secede.
So if they wish to become a separate country they will have to rebel. And they will all be promptly squashed by the federal armed forces, arrested, and either hanged or thrown into the clink.
In short, all the talk about secession if folderol. Nothing is going to happen except more bilious gas from the unhappy libs banging their spoons on their high chairs.

[Cripplecreek]

"Suppose the secessionists win?"

Win what? Some popular poll? Nothing they will vote on will have any legal standing. The argument for secession was decided by the Civil War. There is nothing in the constitution that provides a way for states to secede.
So if they wish to become a separate country they will have to rebel. And they will all be promptly squashed by the federal armed forces, arrested, and either hanged or thrown into the clink.
In short, all the talk about secession if folderol. Nothing is going to happen except more bilious gas from the unhappy libs banging their spoons on their high chairs.

They stand a very remote though far better chance of breaking up into multiple states. Every state with any size or geopolitical division has a perpetual secessionist movement simmering somewhere.

Here in Michigan there is a long lived upper peninsula break away movement but it won't happen. Primarily they don't have enough people for a single congressional district. The 1st district covers the entire upper peninsula and northern 3rd of the lower peninsula.

In my opinion breaking up into multiple states is foolish as well. We've got all the senators and representatives we need in DC.

[Doug Loss]

"Suppose the secessionists win?"

Win what? Some popular poll? Nothing they will vote on will have any legal standing. The argument for secession was decided by the Civil War. There is nothing in the constitution that provides a way for states to secede.
So if they wish to become a separate country they will have to rebel. And they will all be promptly squashed by the federal armed forces, arrested, and either hanged or thrown into the clink.
In short, all the talk about secession if folderol. Nothing is going to happen except more bilious gas from the unhappy libs banging their spoons on their high chairs.

Well, while it's not actually written there, Article IV, Section 3 of the Constitution states:

"New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

Perhaps the USSC can find some penumbras and emanations there that would allow a state to secede.  Perhaps by giving all the state's territory and property to the federal government with the understanding that the federal government would then dispose of said territory and property by selling it to some external entity (just off the top of my head).

[truth_seeker]

@truth_seeker

What about the two-state solution?

A few decades back, there was talk of a north-south split.

Partly it was about water; the north having it, and the south needing it. But it was also over the idea the SF Bay area was culturally desirable, but the Lost Angeles-Hollywood-Disneyland vibe was not worthy of much.

A split is highly questionable. One recent proposal is a separation into five-six states (Jefferson being one) Not likely.

Most of the population lives crowded into a small portion of land, mainly along the Pacific Coast.

The landscapes in this state are quite a national treasure. Yosemite, Lake Tahoe, Redwoods, Deserts, Coastal sands and steep rocky drops into roaring seas. This month I walk along the beach in Orange County and gaze inland at the snow covered San Gabriel, San Bernardino and San Jacinto mountains, and seaward to Catalina Island and amazing winter sunsets.
 
It is amazing how sparsely populated the area just East of the Sierra's is for example. Owens Valley, Bishop, Big Pine, Lone Pine etc. Just 85 miles separate Mr. Whitney, highest point in lower 48 at 14,494 ft. and Death Valley Badwater -282 ft.

[Norm Lenhart]

However likely it is today, the country is equally and diametrically divided and only hardening in opposition to each other culturally, politically, morally and by any measurable metric.

Personally I think people should consider objectively WHY America must remain as it is. "America' is based on the Constitution. Clearly we see 50ish% of the population opposed to the Constitution and constitutional government. So we should go on our merry way. Divide the land accordingly. We are still America. The left can be whatever their country chooses to be.

I have an extremely hard time believing that this is a bad idea considering the alternative is escalating tensions and eventual civil war being the very foreseeable alternative. Like it or not folks, one way or another, we are going to divide eventually.

[Doug Loss]

However likely it is today, the country is equally and diametrically divided and only hardening in opposition to each other culturally, politically, morally and by any measurable metric.

Personally I think people should consider objectively WHY America must remain as it is. "America' is based on the Constitution. Clearly we see 50ish% of the population opposed to the Constitution and constitutional government. So we should go on our merry way. Divide the land accordingly. We are still America. The left can be whatever their country chooses to be.

I have an extremely hard time believing that this is a bad idea considering the alternative is escalating tensions and eventual civil war being the very foreseeable alternative. Like it or not folks, one way or another, we are going to divide eventually.

I'm with you, Norm. I no longer feel any need to appease or associate with TWANLOC (Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen).

[Norm Lenhart]

I'm with you, Norm. I no longer feel any need to appease or associate with TWANLOC (Those Who Are No Longer Our Countrymen).

There really can't be a coming together or diplomacy when your opponent literally thinks you are the devil. Leftists see non-fellow travelers as the source of all wrong in the world.

you just cannot deal with that. Even at the height of the cold war, we achieved peace through the MAD doctrine with Russia as they didn't want to die any more than we did.

The left is really no different than Jihadists. Their Gaia/marxist doctrine shares a lot with the Koran. They believe in their way and that thats the only way things are gonna be. Globally. thus the UN and it's BS. But right here in America, one need only look at the country since the election. There is no compromise for them. There are demands that are followed by rioting when unmet and 24/7 news/media ginning up those riots.

Again, you can't work with that any more than you can get a Muslim to reform Islam. It's just not going to happen. their entire belief structure is their way only. No exceptions.

I get that no one wants to restructure the country much less the planet. Unfortunately the history of said planet shows that you cannot have diametrically opposed people occupying the same area before bad things happen. And warfare and a division always results.

[Axeslinger]

I agree @Norm Lenhart

I'd prefer an amicable divorce over a murder-suicide.

[bigheadfred]

The thing about an amicable divorce is that when the idiots see how much they've lost they are going to want to take it back. And then we are right back to the murder/suicide thing. So maybe the murder/suicide thing first. Until death do we part.

[Sanguine]

The thing about an amicable divorce is that when the idiots see how much they've lost they are going to want to take it back. And then we are right back to the murder/suicide thing. So maybe the murder/suicide thing first. Until death do we part.

Yes, but let's file for divorce first, just on the off chance it may work.

[bigheadfred]

Yes, but let's file for divorce first, just on the off chance it may work.

You file the paperwork. I'll file my sights.

[Sanguine]

You file the paperwork. I'll file my sights.

Deal.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

You file the paperwork. I'll file my sights.

I will bring the plastic spoon and the bic lighter to blacken them when you get done.

[bigheadfred]

I will bring the plastic spoon and the bic lighter to blacken them when you get done.

@Sanguine

Deal.

I can't believe I missed one. Let's try again.

That would soot me fine.

[Oceander]

"Suppose the secessionists win?"

Win what? Some popular poll? Nothing they will vote on will have any legal standing. The argument for secession was decided by the Civil War. There is nothing in the constitution that provides a way for states to secede.
So if they wish to become a separate country they will have to rebel. And they will all be promptly squashed by the federal armed forces, arrested, and either hanged or thrown into the clink.
In short, all the talk about secession if folderol. Nothing is going to happen except more bilious gas from the unhappy libs banging their spoons on their high chairs.

Exactly

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No.

The fact that we're not going to let those deepwater ports go is just 1 reason.

What are you talking about?