Democratic Strategist Not Sure Chicago Torture Video of Disabled White Man Constitutes a Hate Crime

[TomSea]

Per the news, the suspects could also be charged with a hate crime as it relates to taking advantage of a special needs person.

It's really a thin line.

We run the risk that someone could be homophobic and charged with a crime; on the other hand, there are clear instances where one is being hateful and it translates into an act. Then, we might have something like "threats of terrorism" but that is back at being a bit of prosecuting one for so-called "thought crimes".

[Sanguine]

If I could vote on hate crime legislation, I would vote against it because of the way such punishment could be meted out unjustly, protecting certain classes, etc. , but at the same time, it is clear, there are instances where the intent is malicious and intent is in the law all the time.

One has a certain amount of an illicit drug beyond an amount for personal use, the law says "with intent to distribute."

Ah, yes, but "intent to distribute" has to be backed up by objective evidence, such as an collection of baggies and a large amount of the illicit drug. 

[Lando Lincoln]

Too bad Obama is packing his uhaul and unable to comment on the situation.

Exactly.  I'm sure his statement - once he can contain his outrage - will clear up the confusion completely.

[Cyber Liberty]

If I could vote on hate crime legislation, I would vote against it because of the way such punishment could be meted out unjustly, protecting certain classes, etc. , but at the same time, it is clear, there are instances where the intent is malicious and intent is in the law all the time.

One has a certain amount of an illicit drug beyond an amount for personal use, the law says "with intent to distribute."

I agree with the idea hate-crime laws would be meted out unjustly, this story is evidence of that.  "Gettinevenism" reared its ugly head the instant the first state passed a hate-crime law.  Only crimes against "protected classes" count.  The only white victims allowed are either homosexuals or learning disabled, like the first chap we heard about.  If you're a regular white guy you can forget all about seeing anybody get charged with a hate crime for beating you up, no matter how obviously racist the attackers are.

[Cyber Liberty]

Ah, yes, but "intent to distribute" has to be backed up by objective evidence, such as an collection of baggies and a large amount of the illicit drug.

I don't think you're correct about that.  Here in AZ, merely possessing a large quantity of marijuana gets you "Intent to Distribute," no matter what.  You don't need to be in possession of baggies and a scale.

[TomSea]

Ah, yes, but "intent to distribute" has to be backed up by objective evidence, such as an collection of baggies and a large amount of the illicit drug.

A millionaire rock star could have a big stash of heroin; that does not mean he intends to distribute it.

[Sanguine]

I don't think you're correct about that.  Here in AZ, merely possessing a large quantity of marijuana gets you "Intent to Distribute," no matter what.  You don't need to be in possession of baggies and a scale.

You're right; I should have written "or" rather than "and".

[Sanguine]

A millionaire rock star could have a big stash of heroin; that does not mean he intends to distribute it.

And, it doesn't mean he won't get charged with intent to distribute.

[Cyber Liberty]

A millionaire rock star could have a big stash of heroin; that does not mean he intends to distribute it.

That's the conclusion a reasonable person would make, but that's not what a DA will do.  He's going to hang the most severe charge that he can.

[Lando Lincoln]

Crawl into their hateful minds for a moment.  What exactly did they think might happen when they streamed this video?  They hoped it would go viral.  How could they imagine that?  I can't grasp any of it.

The culture in some of Obama's Chicago is vile.

[Cyber Liberty]

You're right; I should have written "or" rather than "and".

The law is an ass.   

[r9etb]

I've heard the line before that there should be no hate crime laws; but I'm mixed on this.

It's probably valid as a discriminator of intent, and therefore degree, much like there are "degrees" of things like assault, murder, and so on.  Intent is one of the factors that matters, and it's as it should be.  Your vandalism example is appropriate: it's a different degree of malice if somebody does something out of hate rather than boredom....  "Hate" is probably a valid way of increasing something from 3rd to 2nd degree, for example.

I'm opposed to the idea of making it an entirely separate sort of law, however.  It leads to how the standard is currently applied, which seems to be weighted toward only certain types of "hate."

[skeeter]

Per the news, the suspects could also be charged with a hate crime as it relates to taking advantage of a special needs person.

It's really a thin line.

We run the risk that someone could be homophobic and charged with a crime; on the other hand, there are clear instances where one is being hateful and it translates into an act. Then, we might have something like "threats of terrorism" but that is back at being a bit of prosecuting one for so-called "thought crimes".

Looks like the ditherers in Chicago, after much anguished deliberation (and having noticed the brewing national outrage), have indeed charged the punks with a hate crime.

[Cyber Liberty]

Looks like the ditherers in Chicago, after much anguished deliberation (and having noticed the brewing national outrage), have indeed charged the punks with a hate crime.

If so, this might be the first time any black person has been charged with a hate-crime for beating a white person.  Such prosecutions are as rare as voting irregularities being charged against a black person in Eric Holder's DoJ.

No wonder the gal with the MM chest is confused.  Too bad those aren't bwaims.

[Wingnut]

The grandmother of a young woman associated with a live video on Facebook of a beating says her granddaughter "had her ups and downs," but is "a good person."

Turning her life around at 18.  Mmmmm Mmmmm.  Good to know.

[Cyber Liberty]

Turning her life around at 18.  Mmmmm Mmmmm.  Good to know.

How much do you wanna bet she's an aspiring hip-hop artist?

[skeeter]

How much do you wanna bet she's an aspiring hip-hop artist?

She was just putting the finishing touches on her admission petition to DePaul.

[Lando Lincoln]

A second video has surfaced showing these fine people forcing the victim to drink from a toilet.  YouTube has taken it down but it is out there.

[andy58-in-nh]

She was just putting the finishing touches on her admission petition to DePaul.

I would have guessed that "DePaul" was one of her little brothers' names.

[Wingnut]

I would have guessed that "DePaul" was one of her little brothers' names.

The JUCO next door is DeShawn

[goatprairie]

I agree with you, that "hate crimes" are really "thought crimes."  That said, I'll give a stab at what proponents of the concept are saying.

A "hate crime" is more than a crime against the individual, it's supposedly a crime against everybody who shares the characteristics of the victim.  I don't agree with this at all, because it's just another flavor of Socialism, but that is the "thinking" behind it.

The problem with the idea of hate crimes is manifesting itself now. So-called experts just aren't sure if this incident should be called one despite the perps shouting anti-white remarks. So if they can't agree if it was  a hate crime or not, the perps should not be punished as much as ones who committed one? Nonsense!!!
 It is obvious that many people with power do not want to call black crimes against whites hate crimes while not hesitating to call white crime against blacks and other minorites hate crimes.    I do not like giving them that power. It was a hateful, despicable crime but not a "hate" crime. Let's leave it at that and take out the ideological factor.

[Hondo69]

I'm not a big fan of hate crime legislation because it always forces people to parse hate.  Yes, it adds to the criminal's sentence in the end, but the focus should be on the crime itself.

You can't parse evil.

[Cyber Liberty]

The problem with the idea of hate crimes is manifesting itself now. So-called experts just aren't sure if this incident should be called one despite the perps shouting anti-white remarks. So if they can't agree if it was  a hate crime or not, the perps should not be punished as much as ones who committed one? Nonsense!!!
 It is obvious that many people with power do not want to call black crimes against whites hate crimes while not hesitating to call white crime against blacks and other minorites hate crimes.    I do not like giving them that power. It was a hateful, despicable crime but not a "hate" crime. Let's leave it at that and take out the ideological factor.

It turns out that the perps are going to be charged with the mythical "hate crime," but the Chitcago cops made it crystal clear that it's not because of the race of the victim, but because he's mentally challenged.  If the victim had been a white man of normal intelligence the charge would not have been made, in the face of the increasing outcry over the video. 

As I remarked at another place on the interwebs, the record of a black person never being charged with a "hate crime" upon a white person remains unblemished.  It's never happened.

This goes to your point.  Something as vaguely defined as a "hate crime" is subject to the political whims of the day.   

[debrawiest]

Switch colors and think what would happen. There would be protests and riots in the street. Everybody knows it!

I am personally opposed to the concept of a "hate crime". A crime is a crime and must be prosecuted as such. However, if there is to be such a concept, I have to say that this crime certainly fits.

Ditto to all that you said. 

[dfwgator]

I don't think you're correct about that.  Here in AZ, merely possessing a large quantity of marijuana gets you "Intent to Distribute," no matter what.  You don't need to be in possession of baggies and a scale.

In Singapore, if you have over 15.0 grams of heroin, it's an automatic Death Penalty.