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rangerrebew

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ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« on: January 02, 2017, 01:59:47 pm »
 ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION

 

By Rev. Austin Miles
January 1, 2017
NewsWithViews.com

Let us be totally clear; Islam is not a religion qualifying for religious exemptions including Freedom of Religion. It is instead, a violent political ideology with the goal of taking over the world. Islam teaches its followers to murder any and all "infidels," meaning those who do not accept their manifesto of hate.

They are taught, not to become better people with integrity, but to lie in order to further their ideology. They are taught in their "holy book" The Koran, to kill innocent people in cold blood, plus, they are taught that raping children, including toddlers, is perfectly OK. Indeed they can sexually abuse anyone without consequences. That brutal ideology does not consider these violent sexual assaults illegal or sinful, but indeed permissible. The founder of Islam, Muhammad, married a 7 year old girl.

The most disturbing fact of the followers of that false religion is that they are all pedophiles and are justified by their own (Sharia) laws, the same as NAMBLA, the North American Man/Boy Love Association to make acceptable the rape of boy children, while most of the Muslims are after little girls.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Miles/austin106.htm
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:00:49 pm by rangerrebew »

Offline TomSea

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2017, 02:50:59 pm »
I read this BUT, did not some of these 'refugees' go work for Chobani Yogurt in Idaho?

Quote
In Twin Falls, Idaho, these 'migrants' have been forced in by the Obama Administration, allowing them to live in that state, where they all receive welfare, free housing, medical benefits and food stamps.

The Revs principle point is solid, whether the article is well done, I think it could have been better.

It's not very intellectual like say something out of National Review or other publications might have.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 02:51:45 pm by TomSea »

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2017, 03:16:23 pm »
By Rev. Austin Miles

Let us be totally clear; Islam is not a religion qualifying for religious exemptions including Freedom of Religion. It is instead, a violent political ideology with the goal of taking over the world. Islam teaches its followers to murder any and all "infidels," meaning those who do not accept their manifesto of hate.

Even granting the nature of Islam-inspired terrorism, let us be totally clear: Rev. Austin Miles is a fool.  And it appears he's got his own little manifesto of hate going.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2017, 04:31:31 pm »
That guy is nuts:

The most disturbing fact of the followers of that false religion is that they are all pedophiles

Some surely are.  But stating that "all" are is a sign of an unbalanced mind.  And isolating that lie as "the most disturbing fact about Islam" just makes it that much worse.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 04:33:13 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline jpsb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 04:49:43 pm »
He has a point. Correct me if I am wrong but all of the religious I know about (except Islam) have has there primary goal to become one with the creator (however they define that). One achieves that goal, by at least in part, by becoming a "better" person as well as accepting the tenets of the religion in question.

IMHO the above is not the case with Islam. The primary goal of Islam seems to be to make Islam the dominate religion everywhere (by any means). And to impose Shara law on those people unfortunate enough to live in a Muslim majority area. Gaining access to heaven and becoming one with G*d (and 52 virgins) seems to be an after thought. Curious what do Muslim women get in the after life when they suicide bomb Christians?

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2017, 05:25:48 pm »
He has a point. Correct me if I am wrong but all of the religious I know about (except Islam) have has there primary goal to become one with the creator (however they define that). One achieves that goal, by at least in part, by becoming a "better" person as well as accepting the tenets of the religion in question.

You're wrong.  The goal of Islam is to submit to the creator.  To that end there are innumerable laws and rules.

Quote
IMHO the above is not the case with Islam. The primary goal of Islam seems to be to make Islam the dominate religion everywhere (by any means). And to impose Shara law on those people unfortunate enough to live in a Muslim majority area. Gaining access to heaven and becoming one with G*d (and 52 virgins) seems to be an after thought. Curious what do Muslim women get in the after life when they suicide bomb Christians?

Well, to be fair, Jesus gave us the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."  So we, too, have a goal of spreading Christianity throughout the world.  That is the desired end....

Islam sprang from a tribal, warrior culture and of course its tenets and practices reflect that -- thus its initial wars of conquest, and the ongoing violence practiced by its fanatics.

Most Muslims are just normal people, caught up in the culture in which their ancestors and they grew up.  In many ways Islamic culture is twisted and backwards, as in their treatment of women, for example.  But then, we're all caught up in our own cultures, and often don't even notice injustice and worse (abortion, say).  Hopefully over time we can overcome the worst aspects of what we do (e.g., slavery).   Western culture has overcome many truly ghastly things, but we'd be foolish to deny that our Christian ancestors had not behaved badly as well, nor should we fool ourselves into thinking we could not slide backwards.

Which brings us to the repugnant the "Reverend" Austin Miles.  He sounds rather like the fellows he claims to hate.  I'd prefer not to share a society in which his ridiculous views became the norm.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2017, 06:14:00 pm »
Even granting the nature of Islam-inspired terrorism, let us be totally clear: Rev. Austin Miles is a fool.  And it appears he's got his own little manifesto of hate going.

Well, if he's a fool, then I am too. 

And, Christians are taught to hate evil. 

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2017, 06:44:57 pm »
Even granting the nature of Islam-inspired terrorism, let us be totally clear: Rev. Austin Miles is a fool.  And it appears he's got his own little manifesto of hate going.
Let me see if I understand your position:

Some followers of institution called "islam" take literal sentences from the Koran, and commits acts of violence-in the name of the institution.

Part of the book is a running history of the violent spread of islam, urging readers to act in this manner.

And to you, it is "hateful" to you to repeat that fact?

You have a very low threshold for what constitutes "hatred."

That is equivalent to saying Charles Manson instructed his followers to start "Helter Skeltor" but to repeat this is hateful.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2017, 07:00:44 pm »

Islam is a political social construct with a mandatory religious component to it.


It is utterly impossible to have 'freedom of religion' unless there is separation of Church and State.


Since Islam has no concept of 'separation', and their government, military, legal system, and religion, are all just one thing as a whole, then there can never be freedom of religion when dealing with Islam. The concept of freedom of religion does not apply to them. And it cannot apply to them as long as they support a government enforced faith on their entire countries and everyone in it.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2017, 09:29:00 pm »
Well, if he's a fool, then I am too. 

And, Christians are taught to hate evil.

Are you suggesting that these people are evil?



I thought not.  Check your assumptions before you say stupid things.

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2017, 09:30:55 pm »
Let me see if I understand your position:

Some followers of institution called "islam" take literal sentences from the Koran, and commits acts of violence-in the name of the institution.

Part of the book is a running history of the violent spread of islam, urging readers to act in this manner.

And to you, it is "hateful" to you to repeat that fact?

You have a very low threshold for what constitutes "hatred."

That is equivalent to saying Charles Manson instructed his followers to start "Helter Skeltor" but to repeat this is hateful.

You can say the same about the Jews of the Bible, and a few Christians, too -- apparently some on this very site.

I don't say "hatred."  But I do say "bigotry."  Are you one of the bigots, or are you an actual "truth seeker?"  Because you don't seem to be living up to your name.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2017, 09:50:19 pm »
Are you suggesting that these people are evil?



I thought not.  Check your assumptions before you say stupid things.

Too cute by half.  First of all, you don't know whether or not they are islamic, and they are children and not able to operate on their own initiative.

That's just insulting on your part.  You need to move past your emotionalism and be at least a bit objective.

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2017, 09:50:29 pm »
Islam is a political social construct with a mandatory religious component to it.

So say you.  But are you sure that's not just you trying to justify a particular dislike?  That's what it looks like to me.

More properly, Islam is a religion for which all life is supposed to be lived according to its tenets.  But then, the old idea of "Christendom" is little different, in the sense that we're supposed to live our whole lives according to Christ's teachings. 

That said, as a Christian, I think Islam is wrong in its beliefs and abhor the way its adherents have historically used force and barbarity to propagate and protect it.  It is little more than a continuing manifestation of the religious warfare that characterized the relationships between peoples in Old Testament times.  Which does not, however, mean that I must hate the people who live within Islamic culture.  Indeed, Jesus says quite the opposite -- despite what the foolish Rev. Austin Miles has to say about it.

Quote
It is utterly impossible to have 'freedom of religion' unless there is separation of Church and State.

Since Islam has no concept of 'separation', and their government, military, legal system, and religion, are all just one thing as a whole, then there can never be freedom of religion when dealing with Islam. The concept of freedom of religion does not apply to them. And it cannot apply to them as long as they support a government enforced faith on their entire countries and everyone in it.

There is indeed a strong political/cultural component to Islam, and it is barbarically enforced in places like Iran, and among the nice people of ISIS.  Even so, that inextricable bond between Islam and state seems very little different from the conditions in England and Europe, not all that long ago.  Perhaps you would do well to study up on the Thirty Years' War -- including the death toll -- to see how that sort of thing looks among Christians....  That is precisely the thing that the Establishment Clause of our Constitution was designed to prevent.

Let us go further, now: what is it that you propose to do about Islam?

Be careful how you answer.

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2017, 09:53:50 pm »
Too cute by half.  First of all, you don't know whether or not they are islamic, and they are children and not able to operate on their own initiative.

That's just insulting on your part.  You need to move past your emotionalism and be at least a bit objective.

They're Islamic children -- from Iraq, to be specific. 

And somehow you're unable to say, "no, they're not evil -- they're little kids."

I fail to see how it's insulting to point that out.  Unless you were thinking that they really are evil, just because they're Muslims?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2017, 09:57:30 pm »
They're Islamic children -- from Iraq, to be specific. 

And somehow you're unable to say, "no, they're not evil -- they're little kids."

I fail to see how it's insulting to point that out.  Unless you were thinking that they really are evil, just because they're Muslims?

No, you don't know they're muslim, and even if they are it doesn't bolster your position in the least.  Kids don't make policy.  Whether they are or not is irrelevant.


Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2017, 10:06:15 pm »
No, you don't know they're muslim, and even if they are it doesn't bolster your position in the least.  Kids don't make policy.  Whether they are or not is irrelevant.

Consider: the abundantly silly "Rev." Austin Miles is condemning an entire religion, which includes these kids -- or, if you will not admit it of these kids, then quite a large number of other little kids just like them.

Do you agree with him?

I'm perfectly willing to oppose, alongside you, the horrors being committed in the name of Islam.  I'm just not willing to go along with the author of the original post.  I can't call him out in person; however, I can and will do so to the people here who claim to agree with him.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2017, 10:21:33 pm »
Consider: the abundantly silly "Rev." Austin Miles is condemning an entire religion, which includes these kids -- or, if you will not admit it of these kids, then quite a large number of other little kids just like them.

Do you agree with him?

I'm perfectly willing to oppose, alongside you, the horrors being committed in the name of Islam.  I'm just not willing to go along with the author of the original post.  I can't call him out in person; however, I can and will do so to the people here who claim to agree with him.
Between the naïve view you are pushing, and the view of Sir Winston Churchill, I'm going with Churchill. (This has been verified as true, in case you rush to Snopes, btw.)

He  starts saying muslims are like dogs with rabies.

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.[137][138]

Fanaticism is not a cause of war. It is the means which helps savage peoples to fight. It is the spirit which enables them to combine--the great common object before which all personal or tribal disputes become insignificant. What the horn is to the rhinoceros, what the sting is to the wasp, the Mohammedan faith was to the Arabs of the Soudan--a faculty of offence or defence.[139]

It is, thank heaven, difficult if not impossible for the modern European to fully appreciate the force which fanaticism exercises among an ignorant, warlike and Oriental population. Several generations have elapsed since the nations of the West have drawn the sword in religious controversy, and the evil memories of the gloomy past have soon faded in the strong, clear light of Rationalism and human sympathy. Indeed it is evident that Christianity, however degraded and distorted by cruelty and intolerance, must always exert a modifying influence on men's passions, and protect them from the more violent forms of fanatical fever, as we are protected from smallpox by vaccination. But the Mahommedan religion increases, instead of lessening, the fury of intolerance. It was originally propagated by the sword, and ever since, its votaries have been subject, above the people of all other creeds, to this form of madness. In a moment the fruits of patient toil, the prospects of material prosperity, the fear of death itself, are flung aside. The more emotional Pathans are powerless to resist. All rational considerations are forgotten. Seizing their weapons, they become Ghazis--as dangerous and as sensible as mad dogs: fit only to be treated as such. While the more generous spirits among the tribesmen become convulsed in an ecstasy of religious bloodthirstiness, poorer and more material souls derive additional impulses from the influence of others, the hopes of plunder and the joy of fighting. Thus whole nations are roused to arms. Thus the Turks repel their enemies, the Arabs of the Soudan break the British squares, and the rising on the Indian frontier spreads far and wide. In each case civilisation is confronted with militant Mahommedanism. The forces of progress clash with those of reaction. The religion of blood and war is face to face with that of peace. Luckily the religion of peace is usually the better armed.[140][141]"
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline skeeter

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2017, 10:22:29 pm »
Consider: the abundantly silly "Rev." Austin Miles is condemning an entire religion, which includes these kids -- or, if you will not admit it of these kids, then quite a large number of other little kids just like them.

Do you agree with him?

I'm perfectly willing to oppose, alongside you, the horrors being committed in the name of Islam.  I'm just not willing to go along with the author of the original post.  I can't call him out in person; however, I can and will do so to the people here who claim to agree with him.

While I do not agree with some of the specific gross generalizations contained within the article I do agree with the general point that attempting to absorb muslims and their retrograde theology into our classically liberal, individual-centered society is highly problematic. And I mean highly.

So you can include me on your list.

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2017, 12:07:41 am »
This article's thesis is:

Let us be totally clear; Islam is not a religion qualifying for religious exemptions including Freedom of Religion.

But then does not provide any supporting information as proof.

Instead, it takes this as a proof and then uses it *AS* proof for other claims.

Fail.

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Just another idiot with a blog.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 12:08:55 am by HonestJohn »

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2017, 12:52:39 am »
Between the naïve view you are pushing, and the view of Sir Winston Churchill, I'm going with Churchill. (This has been verified as true, in case you rush to Snopes, btw.)

Careful who you call "naïve", son.  I simply don't think the world is painted solely in black and white.  Unlike the author of this ridiculous screed.  You don't really agree with him, do you?

As to Churchill: I actually own -- and moreover, have read -- the book to which you refer.  So yes, I do understand Churchill's views, as quoted.  And, moreover, to a large extent I agree with what he says.  I do not pretend that Islamic society is something to which anybody should aspire, for many of the reasons he states. 

Of course, he was 23 at the time, and his positions famously changed over time on a variety of issues.  And he later went on to espouse views with which you no doubt disagree, including the creation of the UN....  You either have to kind of pick and choose which "Churchill" you like, or you have to accept that he was far more willing to inspect and alter his worldview than you seem to be.

Have you ever bothered to follow your (and silly Mr. Miles') thinking to its logical conclusion?  OK, so you don't like Islam.  What are you going to do about it?  Details, please.

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2017, 01:05:04 am »
While I do not agree with some of the specific gross generalizations contained within the article I do agree with the general point that attempting to absorb muslims and their retrograde theology into our classically liberal, individual-centered society is highly problematic. And I mean highly.

So you can include me on your list.

Amazingly (well, no, not really), I agree with the idea that the retrograde cultural requirements of Islam have absolutely no place in our society.  I'm pretty sure I'm just as opposed to the murderous tenets of Islamofascism, for example, as you are.  And Islam's treatment of women is just plain backwards and wrong.  I simply choose not to condemn Muslims as people, because of the culture in which they live.  And to pick a war with an entire culture is stupid, not to mention counterproductive.

We should name their failings and their actions for what they are, just as we should do of our own.  But we should be careful in so doing that we don't engage -- as Mr. Miles does -- in the very behavior we presume to oppose. 


Offline skeeter

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2017, 01:18:51 am »
Amazingly (well, no, not really), I agree with the idea that the retrograde cultural requirements of Islam have absolutely no place in our society.  I'm pretty sure I'm just as opposed to the murderous tenets of Islamofascism, for example, as you are.  And Islam's treatment of women is just plain backwards and wrong.  I simply choose not to condemn Muslims as people, because of the culture in which they live.  And to pick a war with an entire culture is stupid, not to mention counterproductive.

We should name their failings and their actions for what they are, just as we should do of our own.  But we should be careful in so doing that we don't engage -- as Mr. Miles does -- in the very behavior we presume to oppose.

You would encourage the adherents of Islam in our country to discard ages old tenants and values of their own faith? A religion they've freely chosen and wholeheartedly accept? I do not think they will listen.

And, BTW, the US government is busily making it legally precarious to 'name their failings', much farther beyond wagging our fingers at AK47 toting fanatics shooting up Christmas parties.

Following WWII it was considered appropriate to condemn the German people for what the destruction the Nazis wrought because, after all, although most of them never held a gun, they were responsible. Why shouldn't we apply the same standard to muslims?

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2017, 01:53:23 am »

It is not about anybody 'picking a war' with Muslims, well, that is except for other Muslims. They do that all the time. Sunnis want to slaughter the Shiite, and vice versa.


But whether we are at war with Islam or not, Islam is at war with the world, including us. And you are naïve to think that those nice little Muslims that are your neighbors, or that you work with, do not support it on some level. After all, war with the Infidel is a fundamental pillar of their whole religion.


And I believe as my own opinion, that many if not most of those "nice" Muslims, would turn in the right circumstances. They may be nice now, but if things changed in their favor, they would no different that the others. I do not 'hate' them per se, but I have learned not to trust them. Europe is learning that same lesson today, the hard way.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline TomSea

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2017, 02:01:39 am »
All of this, and I don't want to say anything offensive to anyone, leads us to the fact, that some children have been involved in bombing but at the same time, in other wars, without Muslims, children were known to do dastardly things, drop a grenade for example.



That little Syrian girl, Bana Alabed, does seem to be a Muslim per her mother's appearance, no beard on the father.

She is as cute as a button but, all the same, we've seen about everything.

No intent on casting aspersions on anyone.  And in all likelihood, she and her family are likely good people.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 02:02:08 am by TomSea »

Offline r9etb

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Re: ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2017, 02:45:53 am »
You would encourage the adherents of Islam in our country to discard ages old tenants and values of their own faith? A religion they've freely chosen and wholeheartedly accept? I do not think they will listen.

So much for the spread of Christianity, eh?  I have no problem at all with encouraging and expecting people to give up a set of beliefs that is pernicious to a civilized society.  Early Christians did it pretty successfully, and modern-day Christians could find a willing audience -- I think especially among women.  Politically and civically, it's a matter of holding everybody to the same laws.  Most of all, it's a matter of understanding and teaching our own principles and standing up for them. 

Hey -- if a person of any religion comes here, earns a living, abides by the laws, treats people fairly ... who are we to complain, even if they're Muslim?

The suggested alternative seems to be exclusion or expulsion of those who hold to a particular religion, apparently by force if need be.  I'm not for that.  Are you?

One issue I have with discussions like this is the dehumanizing use of "Islam," as opposed to the people who live within it.  It's a lot easier to make large statements like Miles does, if you don't stop to consider that you'll be imposing your will on actual people.

Look, skeeter -- you need to think through what you're really saying.  What do you actually propose to do with/to the people who are Muslims?  Some folks around here talk like they wouldn't mind the idea of an outright persecution.  How do you stand?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 02:47:47 am by r9etb »