Trump intends to impose tariffs via executive order

[Suppressed]

US Steel wants to accelerate investments, bring back jobs, CEO says
Japan billionaire plans to invest $50bn in US, create 50,000 new jobs

So you think it's right for the federal government to subsidize businesses on the American taxpayers' backs?

[kevindavis007]

A lot of jobs in steel have been heavily automated for a long time anyway. A friend of mine was pretty severely burned some 30 years ago when he got in the way of a self driving forklift carrying freshly rolled steel bars.

Also it silly to think that we are going to back the type of employment in factories like from post WWII until the early 60's is in denial in what type of world we live in. 


Those days are gone and all of the tariffs in the world is not going to help much.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Jobs already lost such as manufacturing) are gone for good and they aren't coming back.

So all the stuff we have seen in the revitalization of the oil and gas industry via drilling over the past 10 years were not new jobs?


You are sadly mistaken.

There are of course avenues to get jobs back to Americans.

Making blanket statements like that are not truthful and very misleading.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So all the stuff we have seen in the revitalization of the oil and gas industry via drilling over the past 10 years were not new jobs?


You are sadly mistaken.

There are of course avenues to get jobs back to Americans.

Making blanket statements like that are not truthful and very misleading.

Oil/gas aren't manufacturing. If Trump is planning to tax energy imports, then he is even dumber than anyone of us realized.

[jpsb]

So you think it's right for the federal government to subsidize businesses on the American taxpayers' backs?

I like the idea of Americans buying products make in America by American workers. I would further like to see the unConstitutional income tax repealed and replaced with tariffs, which BTW are the constitutional taxes on foreign goods imported into the USA.

Tariffs are a completely voluntary tax. Don't want to pay the tax? Don't buy a product made overseas. Another benefit of funding federal government via tariffs and not income taxes is the government would have to shrink. Huge Marxist government requires a huge tax base (income tax). Yup I see a lot of pluses with tariffs. Recall that until the mid 20th century Gov was funded largely by tariffs.

[Cripplecreek]

It's effectively a 9% pay cut for Americans.  But the drones will cheer it cluelessly.

Most of them are too simple to realize that they won't be able to escape the costs.

They puff their chests out an announce that they won't buy no stinkin foreign made car. The problem is that there is no such thing as a totally American made car. Virtually all of the electronic circuitry in cars are foreign made and there are a lot of them. When I worked in a plastics factory making interiors for virtually every make of car and the vinyl we used all came from China. A huge portion of the tires we use in this country are foreign made. Virtually all of the recycled metal used in car construction was sold to China for recycling and is sold back to us.

Might be wise to start looking into buggy whip investments.

[kevindavis007]

I like the idea of Americans buying products make in America by American workers. I would further like to see the unConstitutional income tax repealed and replaced with tariffs, which BTW are the constitutional taxes on foreign goods imported into the USA.

Tariffs are a completely voluntary tax. Don't want to pay the tax? Don't buy a product made overseas. Another benefit of funding federal government via tariffs and not income taxes is the government would have to shrink. Huge Marxist government requires a huge tax base (income tax). Yup I see a lot of pluses with tariffs. Recall that until the mid 20th century Gov was funded largely by tariffs.

@jpsb so I should be force to pay extra for a product just because it is not made in America??  The Federal Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I like the idea of Americans buying products make in America by American workers. I would further like to see the unConstitutional income tax repealed and replaced with tariffs, which BTW are the constitutional taxes on foreign goods imported into the USA.

Tariffs are a completely voluntary tax. Don't want to pay the tax? Don't buy a product made overseas. Another benefit of funding federal government via tariffs and not income taxes is the government would have to shrink. Huge Marxist government requires a huge tax base (income tax). Yup I see a lot of pluses with tariffs. Recall that until the mid 20th century Gov was funded largely by tariffs.

And when other countries tax our exports?

[kevindavis007]

And when other countries tax our exports?

and they will if we tax their stuff?? So I hope a lot of people could be ready for a trade war.

[Cripplecreek]

Also it silly to think that we are going to back the type of employment in factories like from post WWII until the early 60's is in denial in what type of world we live in. 


Those days are gone and all of the tariffs in the world is not going to help much.

Lots of talk about Trump as the brilliant businessman but I don't see it. He's a backward thinker and that's not how America will be a world leader.

I contrast him with my governor (Rick Snyder) who has actually brought economic growth to Michigan in the Obama era. Tech is probably the single fastest growing sector in Michigan between Grand Rapids, Kzoo, and Detroit. When he was elected Canada wanted us to pay a half billion dollars for a new bridge over the Detroit river. Today Canada is paying the entire several billion dollar cost of the project and related infrastructure.

Lots of things I dislike about Snyder but he's probably the single brightest businessman in American politics today.

[jpsb]

@jpsb so I should be force to pay extra for a product just because it is not made in America??  The Federal Government should not be in the business of picking winners and losers.

The federal government requires money to operate, one way or another you are going to pay. It makes eminent sense to "make you pay" in a matter that is most beneficial to the USA.

I like Abraham Lincoln take on things. When discussing buying rail from Britain (cheaper) or building the rail here in the US. Lincoln said something like "If we buy the rail from Britain we will have the rail and they will have the money. But if we build the rail here we will have the rail and we will have the money." We built the rail here.

[jpsb]

And when other countries tax our exports?

They are doing that already. Foreigners to not have a "right" to our market. Access to our market is a privilege which many of our "trading partners" (China, Japan, Mexico, etc) are abusing. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The federal government requires money to operate, one way or another you are going to pay. It makes eminent sense to "make you pay" in a matter that is most beneficial to the USA.

I like Abraham Lincoln take on things. When discussing buying rail from Britain (cheaper) or building the rail here in the US. Lincoln said something like "If we buy the rail from Britain we will have the rail and they will have the money. But if we build the rail here we will have the rail and we will have the money." We built the rail here.

Lots of ways to fund the government without tariffs or income taxes. Of course, Trumpers are too ignorant to understand that.

[Oceander]

I like the idea of Americans buying products make in America by American workers. I would further like to see the unConstitutional income tax repealed and replaced with tariffs, which BTW are the constitutional taxes on foreign goods imported into the USA.

Tariffs are a completely voluntary tax. Don't want to pay the tax? Don't buy a product made overseas. Another benefit of funding federal government via tariffs and not income taxes is the government would have to shrink. Huge Marxist government requires a huge tax base (income tax). Yup I see a lot of pluses with tariffs. Recall that until the mid 20th century Gov was funded largely by tariffs.

The "unconstitutional income tax" which was imposed only after the Constitution was amended to expressly permit an income tax?  That illogic is a stretch, even for you, and that's saying a lot. 

[Suppressed]

Most of them are too simple to realize that they won't be able to escape the costs.

They puff their chests out an announce that they won't buy no stinkin foreign made car.

And even if they could buy a purely American car,  the whole point of the tariff is to raise prices so companies have money to hire American workers..to brobe them to stay here.  American companies won't keep prices lower when the government is stacking the deck!
It's not any sort of "voluntary tax" because it raises prices across the board.

[Bigun]

If Trump thinks tariffs will keep jobs in America or bring back jobs already lost, he is mistaken.  Jobs already lost such as manufacturing) are gone for good and they aren't coming back. If he wants to save jobs, get rid of unions. Greedy unions have killed jobs.

I beg to differ!  IF we got our own house in order manufacturing jobs would come back to the USA in droves VERY quickly!

Getting rid of Obamacare, our current Marxist tax code, and a million overbearing regulations would be an EXCELLENT start!

[Mesaclone]

and they will if we tax their stuff?? So I hope a lot of people could be ready for a trade war.

Your missing the point. They ARE taxing our stuff, and we ARE already in the midst of a trade war....its just that we're the only one's not actually fighting back. If nothing else, the threat of using our own tariffs can be leverage to get others...like the Chinese and yes, the Japanese...to lower their own tariffs against our products.

Further, advancing our own energy sectors by employing some tariffs actually pushes us towards energy independence...and while its true that does not create a lot of "manufacturing" jobs, it does create a lot of jobs in the "production" sector. Very similar in many ways as an employment opportunity for blue collar workers. Perhaps if we got smart and built some new refineries, we can ALSO create a nice chunk of manufacturing jobs as well.

[Cripplecreek]

And even if they could buy a purely American car,  the whole point of the tariff is to raise prices so companies have money to hire American workers..to brobe them to stay here.  American companies won't keep prices lower when the government is stacking the deck!
It's not any sort of "voluntary tax" because it raises prices across the board.

He thinks he can abuse corporations into compliance.

Its like thinking you can beat obedience into a dog.

[Night Hides Not]

The "unconstitutional income tax" which was imposed only after the Constitution was amended to expressly permit an income tax?  That illogic is a stretch, even for you, and that's saying a lot.

Forget it, he's rolling...

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Your missing the point. They ARE taxing our stuff, and we ARE already in the midst of a trade war....its just that we're the only one's not actually fighting back. If nothing else, the threat of using our own tariffs can be leverage to get others...like the Chinese and yes, the Japanese...to lower their own tariffs against our products.

What you're describing is a trade pact, Trumpers ignorantly despise most trade pacts but that is their purpose, to lower tariffs across the board.


We already do tax imports for countries not in trade pacts (like China). If we raise tariffs, they will retaliate and yes, we do export to china and other countries.

[jpsb]

The "unconstitutional income tax" which was imposed only after the Constitution was amended to expressly permit an income tax?  That illogic is a stretch, even for you, and that's saying a lot.

LOL, another "conservative" defending a progressive income tax? But I am not allowed to tell you what you are. But I bet you can guess.

There is considerable debate over whether the 16th amendment was actually ratified. The Law that Never Was

Income taxes are the worst tragedy to ever befall the American people. I find it mind boggling that any conservative would defend them.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

LOL, another "conservative" defending a progressive income tax?

No he's attacking your complete lack of being right.

[kevindavis007]

Lots of talk about Trump as the brilliant businessman but I don't see it. He's a backward thinker and that's not how America will be a world leader.

I contrast him with my governor (Rick Snyder) who has actually brought economic growth to Michigan in the Obama era. Tech is probably the single fastest growing sector in Michigan between Grand Rapids, Kzoo, and Detroit. When he was elected Canada wanted us to pay a half billion dollars for a new bridge over the Detroit river. Today Canada is paying the entire several billion dollar cost of the project and related infrastructure.

Lots of things I dislike about Snyder but he's probably the single brightest businessman in American politics today.

I don't like the backward mentality..  We should be looking into the future not the past.

[kevindavis007]

Your missing the point. They ARE taxing our stuff, and we ARE already in the midst of a trade war....its just that we're the only one's not actually fighting back. If nothing else, the threat of using our own tariffs can be leverage to get others...like the Chinese and yes, the Japanese...to lower their own tariffs against our products.

Further, advancing our own energy sectors by employing some tariffs actually pushes us towards energy independence...and while its true that does not create a lot of "manufacturing" jobs, it does create a lot of jobs in the "production" sector. Very similar in many ways as an employment opportunity for blue collar workers. Perhaps if we got smart and built some new refineries, we can ALSO create a nice chunk of manufacturing jobs as well.

Energy and factory jobs are two different things..


Sorry but I'm the consumer, and as a consumer I have the right to choose to buy  a product made overseas or made in America.

[kevindavis007]

I beg to differ!  IF we got our own house in order manufacturing jobs would come back to the USA in droves VERY quickly!

Getting rid of Obamacare, our current Marxist tax code, and a million overbearing regulations would be an EXCELLENT start!

@Bigun exactly..