Author Topic: Here it comes again: Arizona Christian Artists May Face Jail Time for Refusing to Service Gay Wedding  (Read 26344 times)

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Offline SirLinksALot

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SOURCE: CHRISTIAN POST

URL: http://www.christianpost.com/news/arizona-christian-artists-jail-time-service-gay-wedding-invitation-171987/

by Michael Gryboski



A pair of Christian artists may face several months in prison for refusing to make wedding invitations for a same-sex ceremony due to an Arizona city ordinance.

Joanna Duka and Breanna Koski of Brush & Nib Studio are appealing a court decision from a September ruling against their lawsuit, claiming that a Phoenix city ordinance violates their freedom of expression and freedom of religion.

Duka and Koski are being represented by the Alliance Defending Freedom, a conservative law firm that often tackles religious liberty cases.

ADF attorney Kristen Waggoner, who is representing the two artists, said in an interview last week on the Fox News program "The Kelly File" that the case "involves artistic expression."

"The issue here is whether the government can force artists to create art in violation of their convictions and this ordinance actually imposes jail time potentially on artists as well as fines," stated Waggoner.

"Six months in jail for every day Joanna and Breanna are not in compliance. We don't force artists to create artistic expression under threat of jail time."

In May, Duka and Koski filed suit against the City of Phoenix arguing that Phoenix City Code Section § 18.4(B) violates their religious freedom.

Titled "Discrimination in public accommodations," the city code section bars discrimination "in places of public accommodation against any person because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or disability."

"No person shall, directly or indirectly, refuse, withhold from, or deny to any person, or aid in or incite such refusal, denial or withholding of, accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges thereof because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or disability nor shall distinction be made with respect to any person," continued the ordinance.

"It is unlawful for any owner, operator, lessee, manager, agent or employee of any place of public accommodation to directly or indirectly display, circulate, publicize or mail any advertisement, notice or communication which states or implies that any facility or service shall be refused or restricted because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or disability."

City Code Section § 18.4(B) did include an exemption for "bona fide religious organizations" regarding "the prohibitions concerning marital status, sexual orientation, or gender identity or expression." However, this exemption did not apply to businesses.

Filed as a "pre-enforcement civil rights lawsuit," Duka and Koski's suit argues that by not protecting for-profit like their artistic business the ordinance should be declared "unconstitutional."

"Phoenix law strips artists of their freedom to choose what to create and what to say in the marriage context," read the suit.

"These provisions also prevent Plaintiffs from explaining why they only support one-man/one- woman marriage and why they cannot create art for marriages (such as same-sex marriages) that contradict their religious beliefs about marriage."

In September, Arizona Superior Court Judge Karen A. Mullins ruled against the suit, concluding among things that the act of creating a wedding invitation for a same-sex ceremony "does not compel Plaintiffs to convey a government mandated message, such as an endorsement or pledge in favor of same-sex marriages, nor does it convey any message concerning same-sex marriage."

"It is absurd to think that the fabricator of a wedding invitation for a same-sex couple has endorsed same-sex marriage merely by creating or printing that invitation," wrote Judge Mullins.

"Moreover, there is nothing about the creative process itself, such as a flower or vine or the choice of a particular font or color, that conveys any pledge, endorsement, celebration, or other substantive mandated message by Plaintiffs in regard to same-sex marriage."

Offline goatprairie

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Well then, let's get the Nazis to demand  liberal artists make Nazi-themed art because according to the judge simply printing material with symbols on it doesn't mean the artists would be endorsing Nazism. Since it is legal to belong to the Nazi Party and espouse Nazi ideas,  the Nazis should be able to demand their stuff get printed/made, whatever by whomever makes stuff like that. 

Offline Jazzhead

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I took a peek at their website.  They do beautiful work.   The site says they specialize in creating invitations for weddings.  That's what hold they themselves out to the general public as doing. 

So what gives them the right to discriminate?       
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

geronl

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Quote
"No person shall, directly or indirectly, refuse, withhold from, or deny to any person, or aid in or incite such refusal, denial or withholding of, accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges thereof because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, marital status, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or disability nor shall distinction be made with respect to any person," continued the ordinance

Talk about bad law.

Offline The_Reader_David

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As a back-up plan for the law suit, they should have some designs based on Flemish engravings of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Talk about bad law.

The law is the law according to the book of Donald.

Offline Just_Victor

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I took a peek at their website.  They do beautiful work.   The site says they specialize in creating invitations for weddings.  That's what hold they themselves out to the general public as doing. 

So what gives them the right to discriminate?     

If I'm not free to choose who I work for, regardless of my reasons why, then I am a slave.
If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.

geronl

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I took a peek at their website.  They do beautiful work.   The site says they specialize in creating invitations for weddings.  That's what hold they themselves out to the general public as doing. 

So what gives them the right to discriminate?     

Can they be forced make pornographic art too?

geronl

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So what gives them the right to discriminate?     

Freedom, liberty, anti-slavery laws

Offline Jazzhead

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If I'm not free to choose who I work for, regardless of my reasons why, then I am a slave.

Any business can and does.   Some businesses choose to offer their services to the general public,  and when they do they voluntarily become subject to laws addressing non-discrimination in public accommodations.   So again - when such a business freely chooses to hold itself out to the public as a purveyor of services for "weddings",  what gives it the right to discriminate in violation of the law?
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

geronl

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Any business can and does.  Some businesses choose to offer their services to the general public,  and when they do they voluntarily become subject to laws addressing non-discrimination in public accommodations.

Banks should be forced to hire bank robbers, schools should be forced to hire convicted pedophiles... and this is already on the lefts agenda. Already basically sodomising kids in government schools

geronl

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Any business can and does.   Some businesses choose to offer their services to the general public....

lol. Government can't discriminate, people can. Oh wait, government DOES discriminate all the time. Somehow the world has gotten backwards.

When you explain to me why the government can give "minority-owned" businesses a 5% advantage in contract bidding, then you might have a point forcing artistic children to have gay sex or whatever the topic was.

Offline Just_Victor

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Any business can and does.   Some businesses choose to offer their services to the general public,  and when they do they voluntarily become subject to laws addressing non-discrimination in public accommodations.   So again - when such a business freely chooses to hold itself out to the public as a purveyor of services for "weddings",  what gives it the right to discriminate in violation of the law?

So I guess if it's the law, then slavery is OK.  Good to know.

If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.

Offline Jazzhead

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So I guess if it's the law, then slavery is OK.  Good to know.

What slavery?   Their website says they provide invitations for weddings.   That's their choice.   Why should their customer, who engages their establishment based on their advertised services, be the victim of arbitrary discrimination?   

I think you've got it arse-backward who's the victim here.   Would you enjoy being denied service at a lunch counter for no reason other than the color of your skin?   

 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

geronl

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I think you've got it arse-backward who's the victim here.   Would you enjoy being denied service at a lunch counter for no reason other than the color of your skin?

So, why does the government discriminate against whites? Why is that okay? How is that Constitutional?

Offline Just_Victor

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What slavery?   Their website says they provide invitations for weddings.   That's their choice.   Why should their customer, who engages their establishment based on their advertised services, be the victim of arbitrary discrimination?   

I think you've got it arse-backward who's the victim here.   Would you enjoy being denied service at a lunch counter for no reason other than the color of your skin?

I'll say it again.  If I'm not free to chose who I work for, regardless of my reasons why, then I am a slave.

If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.

Oceander

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I'll say it again.  If I'm not free to chose who I work for, regardless of my reasons why, then I am a slave.



No. you're a slave if you cannot choice to not work and if you have no choice about what work to do.  Otherwise you're not.  They aren't being forced to continue this line of work - they can quit and find something else to do - so they aren't slaves. 

Offline Jazzhead

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So, why does the government discriminate against whites? Why is that okay? How is that Constitutional?

What the heck are you talking about?  This discussion doesn't pertain to affirmative action.   A lunch counter,  or a wedding planner,  who caters to the general public,  cannot arbitrarily discriminate against whites or blacks (or, in some jurisdictions, against gays or straights). 

If a calligrapher says he does wedding invitations, then he should do wedding invitations.  It's simple as that - it has nothing to do with "religious liberty" - he's running a profit-making business dealing with the general public, not a place of worship.   Now to be sure - the calligrapher can reject the content of what he's being asked to write (he can't be forced to write an obscene message, for instance).   But why should be able to reject a customer with respect to an advertised service merely because the customer is gay?     
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline mountaineer

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  They aren't being forced to continue this line of work - they can quit and find something else to do - so they aren't slaves.
That's right, they can just take their artistic talent to the grill at McDonald's or some such place.
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Offline Jazzhead

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No. you're a slave if you cannot choice to not work and if you have no choice about what work to do.  Otherwise you're not.  They aren't being forced to continue this line of work - they can quit and find something else to do - so they aren't slaves.

Exactly.  If you say you do weddings, then do weddings.   Why is it "slavery" to ask a business to provide the very services it advertises?   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Oceander

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That's right, they can just take their artistic talent to the grill at McDonald's or some such place.

They're engaged in a commercial enterprise.  Would it be acceptable for McDonalds to refuse to sell burgers to whites?  Would it be acceptable for a shoe salesman to refuse to sell a pair of running shoes to a guy because he came to the store with his boyfriend?

Offline Jazzhead

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That's right, they can just take their artistic talent to the grill at McDonald's or some such place.

No, they can provide their commercial services without arbitrarily discriminating among members of the public.   Stop with the sob story - you've calling the victimizer the victim. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 08:20:33 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline mountaineer

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Offline TomSea

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Per this similar story, consenting to aid in this "gay marriage" could be interpreted as promoting same-sex marriage.  So, this couple is suing the state ahead of time to not be forced to recognize something marriage has not been ever or in any culture ever.

http://christiannews.net/2016/12/08/minnesota-filmmakers-file-preemptive-suit-to-protect-right-not-to-promote-same-sex-marriage/

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=237036.new#new

At least this is worth a try.

Oceander

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No, you are.  Shame on you.  God will judge you for that one day.

I don't believe that God commanded that we cease doing all business with sinners.  If that were the case, nobody could do business with anybody, what with original sin.