Wisconsin officials drop TRUTH BOMB about recount

[17 Oaks]

Hard to argue against an audit/recount if the president-elect asserts, without any evidence, that were millions of illegal votes

So you are saying that illegals don't or cannot vote?




FACT JACK!  As of today there is NO state in the US that requires ANY proof of being a US CITIZEN, not 1 out of 50 states.




I question the 10 Million illegals, that number has been thrown around back to my college days in the 60's.  I have seen some data that research believes the real number is about 30 Million which I feel is more accurate.


So here is the problem:  Since we have no way of proving citizenship of who votes then anyone can vote, therefore illegals can and my bet is they DO VOTE!  And they did not vote for TRUMP, you can bank on that...

[TomSea]

The count will start Thursday.

[Oceander]

So you are saying that illegals don't or cannot vote?




FACT JACK!  As of today there is NO state in the US that requires ANY proof of being a US CITIZEN, not 1 out of 50 states.




I question the 10 Million illegals, that number has been thrown around back to my college days in the 60's.  I have seen some data that research believes the real number is about 30 Million which I feel is more accurate.


So here is the problem:  Since we have no way of proving citizenship of who votes then anyone can vote, therefore illegals can and my bet is they DO VOTE!  And they did not vote for TRUMP, you can bank on that...

FACT JACK:  you still need evidence in this country if you make claims of the sort that would undermine a fundamental process.

[bilo]

What other things are you thinking about?

The popular vote means nothing on the election of a President, so am curious where you are going here.

I think the broader plan of the Rats is to do away with the electoral college. Vote fraud in key urban areas can then determine the election of the POTUS. The electoral college limits the impact of voter fraud. Also, as previously stated the claims of a "hacked" election result weakens Trump's mandate along with the claim he didn't win the popular vote.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So you are saying that illegals don't or cannot vote?

I'm saying that Trump needs evidence before he can drop an assertion like that. And Infowars is a kook site.

[bilo]

So you are saying that illegals don't or cannot vote?




FACT JACK!  As of today there is NO state in the US that requires ANY proof of being a US CITIZEN, not 1 out of 50 states.




I question the 10 Million illegals, that number has been thrown around back to my college days in the 60's.  I have seen some data that research believes the real number is about 30 Million which I feel is more accurate.


So here is the problem:  Since we have no way of proving citizenship of who votes then anyone can vote, therefore illegals can and my bet is they DO VOTE!  And they did not vote for TRUMP, you can bank on that...

 

In my state people could register the day of the election and vote by showing a picture ID and a bill proving they lived at that address. Once they voted their ballot was counted along with the rest of the ballots.

[Oceander]

In my state people could register the day of the election and vote by showing a picture ID and a bill proving they lived at that address. Once they voted their ballot was counted along with the rest of the ballots.

Then it sounds like you know exactly where to start: your state legislature.  Why bitch about it when you can do something about it that doesn't require an act of Congress?

[bilo]

FACT JACK:  you still need evidence in this country if you make claims of the sort that would undermine a fundamental process.

The problem is there is no reasonable verification to determine if someone has the right to vote. In addition to this you have early voting which gives precinct captains time to educate people on how to get their vote counted. Finally, you have obama on youtube primarily addressing illegals and informing them that no one is checking their ballots.

The evidence you seek is never going to exist because ballots are not signed, or labelled with social security numbers, so once they are cast there is no way to identify who voted.

[17 Oaks]

FACT JACK:  you still need evidence in this country if you make claims of the sort that would undermine a fundamental process.

AND so do you, now show me YOUR PROOF they did not vote.


FACT JACK:  You can be held and arrested for a crime you did not commit and in fact be tried by a judge and jury and worse even go to jail for a very long time.


Do I think illegals vote?  YES they do vote and they do not vote for Trump, they voted in the millions for Obama and Clinton.  Why do I believe that?  Simple people do things that benefit them.  If that true, then why would they NOT vote, no proof of citizenship is required, you cannot be questioned and Obama/Clinton promise the moon if elected.

[bilo]

Then it sounds like you know exactly where to start: your state legislature.  Why bitch about it when you can do something about it that doesn't require an act of Congress?

So are you now looking at this issue a little differently?

I've worked as an election judge. I've worked as a precinct captain. I've seen this stuff first hand.

What you refer to as "bitching" is an effort to try and educate "neverTrumpers" who have become so convicted in their opposition that they can't see the real problem.

[Oceander]

AND so do you, now show me YOUR PROOF they did not vote.


FACT JACK:  You can be held and arrested for a crime you did not commit and in fact be tried by a judge and jury and worse even go to jail for a very long time.


Do I think illegals vote?  YES they do vote and they do not vote for Trump, they voted in the millions for Obama and Clinton.  Why do I believe that?  Simple people do things that benefit them.  If that true, then why would they NOT vote, no proof of citizenship is required, you cannot be questioned and Obama/Clinton promise the moon if elected.

I'm not claiming they didn't vote and therefore I don't need any evidence.  YOU and Trump are making the claim, and therefore YOU and Trump are the ones who must provide evidence. 

[17 Oaks]

Then it sounds like you know exactly where to start: your state legislature.  Why bitch about it when you can do something about it that doesn't require an act of Congress?

You are WRONG, Federal voting is settled in FEDERAL COURTS and they have ruled no proof required.  Got a Sam's Club card with your pic on it, then you can vote.  In fact almost anything is allowed as proof.  You cannot question their proof, if say they live at 123 maple st then you must take them at their word.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I think the broader plan of the Rats is to do away with the electoral college. Vote fraud in key urban areas can then determine the election of the POTUS. The electoral college limits the impact of voter fraud. Also, as previously stated the claims of a "hacked" election result weakens Trump's mandate along with the claim he didn't win the popular vote.

That may well be, but that in no way shape or form 'deligitimizes'  Trump's election.

This election was done in conformance with what is written in the Constitution.  What you are bringing up is just pressure to change that wording in some future election, but certainly not this one.

[EtX]

You might be missing another element. If the vote recount can't be completed by Dec. 13th that State's electoral votes won't be counted. So if hillary can tie up WI., MI., & PA Trump won't have 270 votes and it will be up to the House to decide. I don't doubt that Trump will win in the House, but it will be one more thing that undermines his legitimacy as POTUS along with the argument that he didn't win the popular vote.

The leftists are accusing everyone that Trump is choosing for his cabinet  and as advisers of being racists, homophobes, islamaphobes etc. for the same reason. They want to undermine Trump's presidency. Unfortunately, a lot of neverTrumpers are so caught up in the cycle of criticizing Trump they aren't seeing the bigger game that's being played.

You might want to research Electoral Law before posting.

[GrouchoTex]

Hard to argue against an audit/recount if the president-elect asserts, without any evidence, that were millions of illegal votes

I've often wondered why they don't automatically do a recount each time, anyway, just to double check.
(The old "measure twice-cut once" rule).

[Smokin Joe]

So are you now looking at this issue a little differently?

I've worked as an election judge. I've worked as a precinct captain. I've seen this stuff first hand.

What you refer to as "bitching" is an effort to try and educate "neverTrumpers" who have become so convicted in their opposition that they can't see the real problem.

Frankly, I think Conservative "nevertrumpers" are eminently aware of seeing problems, especially before they happen.  But then, I may be biased.

You can make the credible assertion that illegals vote and that there is voter fraud. Unfortunately, assertion is not proof. Belief is not proof. Even knowing is not proof. You need evidence that will stand up in court.

In the meantime, State legislatures are the place to address the problem. Eliminate 'motor voter' where it exists. Tighten up the credentials needed to get a Driver's License, and issue different formats for proven citizens or proven eligible voters and those who are not proven citizens, or who are ineligible to vote.  That could be done by putting the picture on the other side of the license (left vs right), and the appropriate format selected. Or have State issued voter ID cards. There are a lot of possibilities, none of which will ever completely eliminate fraud, but which could make it a lot more difficult and expensive to perpetrate.

[bilo]

Frankly, I think Conservative "nevertrumpers" are eminently aware of seeing problems, especially before they happen.  But then, I may be biased.

You can make the credible assertion that illegals vote and that there is voter fraud. Unfortunately, assertion is not proof. Belief is not proof. Even knowing is not proof. You need evidence that will stand up in court.

Head in the sand nonsense. I guess taking people at their word isn't credible enough for the "neverTrumpers forever" crowd.

Try reading this:

http://www.redstate.com/california_yankee/2016/11/28/team-trump-offers-evidence-for-millions-voting-illegally/

[Smokin Joe]

Head in the sand nonsense. I guess taking people at their word isn't credible enough for the "neverTrumpers forever" crowd.

Try reading this:

http://www.redstate.com/california_yankee/2016/11/28/team-trump-offers-evidence-for-millions-voting-illegally/

People ...sometimes. Politicians demand complete and relentless scrutiny, and Trump has been party to or the source of egregious falsehoods in the past. In this instance, evidence is offered. Bravo! Thank you for the link.

If you read my comments on this thread you will find your rabidly anti-nevertrump prejudices may blind you to what I have said about illegals, and voter fraud.

Your opinions are not enough to prosecute even one case of voter fraud, nor are mine. Not one out of (likely) millions of instances. Without evidence, there will be no prosecution. Without changes (especially the elimination of 'motor voter' and 'welfare signups') fraud will continue at the pace it is at or faster. The Left increasingly resorts to criminal tactics when it doesn't get its way. Unfortunately, that could lead to real totalitarianism when the backlash comes, and by popular demand, no less. I'd love to see the Left shut down before the 'law and order' crowd goes completely overboard, so we can retain some of our Liberty.

[17 Oaks]

Frankly, I think Conservative "nevertrumpers" are eminently aware of seeing problems, especially before they happen.  But then, I may be biased.

You can make the credible assertion that illegals vote and that there is voter fraud. Unfortunately, assertion is not proof. Belief is not proof. Even knowing is not proof. You need evidence that will stand up in court.

In the meantime, State legislatures are the place to address the problem. Eliminate 'motor voter' where it exists. Tighten up the credentials needed to get a Driver's License, and issue different formats for proven citizens or proven eligible voters and those who are not proven citizens, or who are ineligible to vote.  That could be done by putting the picture on the other side of the license (left vs right), and the appropriate format selected. Or have State issued voter ID cards. There are a lot of possibilities, none of which will ever completely eliminate fraud, but which could make it a lot more difficult and expensive to perpetrate.

1)  They have the MOTIVE to vote and do illegally. 


2) To vote would serve and be in their best interest.


3)  They have been encouraged to vote illegally by Obama down the line by politicians.  In spades in sanctuary cities.


4)  They have been assured by Obama that ICE or other law enforcement will not be present nor will they be called if they wish to vote.


5)  The election laws have been set up in order to facilitate illegals voting.


There is not a state in the US that does or can require PROOF of US Citizenship as per the Federal courts.


Sam's club card


Utility bill


Drivers license


Pay stub


Not any one of those proves you are a citizen of the US; add to this the inability of the Voting workers to question your status and we have a system that allows anyone to walk in an vote and vote in multiple locations and states.




Knowing this I have to wonder what exactly is someone thinking when they say illegals don't vote...Denial is NOT a river in Egypt.


My wife has been an election judge for 5 years, I go to the class  she goes to every year to learn what rules are in effect.

[Smokin Joe]

1)  They have the MOTIVE to vote and do illegally. 


2) To vote would serve and be in their best interest.


3)  They have been encouraged to vote illegally by Obama down the line by politicians.  In spades in sanctuary cities.


4)  They have been assured by Obama that ICE or other law enforcement will not be present nor will they be called if they wish to vote.


5)  The election laws have been set up in order to facilitate illegals voting.


There is not a state in the US that does or can require PROOF of US Citizenship as per the Federal courts.


Sam's club card


Utility bill


Drivers license


Pay stub


Not any one of those proves you are a citizen of the US; add to this the inability of the Voting workers to question your status and we have a system that allows anyone to walk in an vote and vote in multiple locations and states.




Knowing this I have to wonder what exactly is someone thinking when they say illegals don't vote...Denial is NOT a river in Egypt.


My wife has been an election judge for 5 years, I go to the class  she goes to every year to learn what rules are in effect.

Re-read what I said and show me where I said illegals don't vote.

Why would I suggest ways to prevent this, or at least make it harder, if I did not acknowledge the problem?

Part of the problem is that although we're pretty sure that illegals DO vote, there isn't, in place, the means to keep them from doing so. That's why you can't prove it, there is no discernment in the process, no requirement to provide any proof, and thus no record proving one way or the other.

That is why I proposed making changes to the laws/requirements for registering to vote, so a photo ID and a Sam's Club card wouldn't be all that was required, but some document which more definitively indicated citizenship.
Even Driver's Licenses, which are issued to illegals, could be configured differently so as to make that lack of proof of citizenship apparent at a glance.

[17 Oaks]

Re-read what I said and show me where I said illegals don't vote.

Why would I suggest ways to prevent this, or at least make it harder, if I did not acknowledge the problem?

Part of the problem is that although we're pretty sure that illegals DO vote, there isn't, in place, the means to keep them from doing so. That's why you can't prove it, there is no discernment in the process, no requirement to provide any proof, and thus no record proving one way or the other.

That is why I proposed making changes to the laws/requirements for registering to vote, so a photo ID and a Sam's Club card wouldn't be all that was required, but some document which more definitively indicated citizenship.
Even Driver's Licenses, which are issued to illegals, could be configured differently so as to make that lack of proof of citizenship apparent at a glance.

I only addressed what I put in BOLD, I did not say YOU said illegals did not vote.  The comment was well below the body and meat as a general statement to all the naysayers of which there are many on here and all over the TV.


I believe you and I are saying the same thing...

[Smokin Joe]

I only addressed what I put in BOLD, I did not say YOU said illegals did not vote.  The comment was well below the body and meat as a general statement to all the naysayers of which there are many on here and all over the TV.


I believe you and I are saying the same thing...

[jpsb]

Hard to argue against an audit/recount if the president-elect asserts, without any evidence, that were millions of illegal votes

No it's not, Trump won in spite of the "system being rigged". There is no need for a recount however an investigation to determine the amount of fraud in our electoral system is fine.

See how easy that was?

Ask a Bernie supporter if the system is rigged.

[jpsb]

They want to undermine Trump's presidency. Unfortunately, a lot of neverTrumpers are so caught up in the cycle of criticizing Trump they aren't seeing the bigger game that's being played.

NeverTrumpers are Marxist tools. They are despicable.

Enough with the Trumpropaganda tinfoil conspiracy theory already. The election's over. There are no Marxists here.

[17 Oaks]

NeverTrumpers are Marxist tools. They are despicable.

Let me Fix this for ya...


NeverTrumpers are Marxist Fools. They are deplorable.