The Get It Out Of Your System Education Thread

[Gefn]

I had a great education until 4th grade. Then I started getting teachers who should have never been teachers- they were teachers to get out of going to Vietnam. The women were older and burnt out, near retirement age, or fresh first year teachers who were good but totally "green". Way after the war in Vietnam was over, these guys stayed because they knew they couldn't get jobs doing anything else.

If it wasn't for my parents making me go to summer school at the local ivy college ( enrichment classes for HS kids who wanted to have really good resumes to get into good/great colleges) I don't think I would have learned a darn thing.

I'm lucky I am a voracious reader and that helped a great deal. I really hated HS. Most miserable 4 years of my life.

College was the best years of my life, I would give everything to go back in a time machine and stay there forever. It was the 80s, best music, best president, etc.

[goodwithagun]

I have a couple of kids in the public elementary system and they are doing very well, mostly get  A's and are learning stuff I didn't see until junior hi, or high school. They take the common core tests a couple of times a year and I find it interesting to see how they compare nationally. We uniformly have good teachers up  here and from my observation of the teachers and the kids a good teacher can teach no matter what the curriculum and if students have a good teacher they learn no matter what the curriculum.

For some common core is just political code for way to much government involvement in education. I get that, but if you have kids you have to be involved in their education on a daily basis if you want them to succeed.....

Here's one example of rotten to the Common Core: I used to teach 11th grade American Literature, but now I teach ELA 11. It's pretty much the same pieces of literature except Common Core eliminated the importance of when certain pieces of literature were written, so we no longer study eras or movements. It's just expose move on, expose move on, expose move on. So Romanticism and Transcendentalism are no longer a focus. Don't get me wrong, we still read a few tiny excerpts from Emerson, but the concepts of the movement are eliminated. We no longer discuss self-reliance, freedom, rugged individualism, etc. you know, the concepts upon which our nation was founded.

Here's another example: When we read the founding documents the focus is on women, slaves, and Native Americans. In fact, our old textbook included Jefferson's original Declaration complete with the paragraph about slavery. It lead to some amazing classroom discussions. Our CC text does not have that. Of course, I bring it up anyway 

[bigheadfred]

@goodwithagun @Doug Loss

The biggest challenge for conservatives today. Bringing the fundamentals to the attention of the younger people.

[mountaineer]

@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?

He retired from a college administration position and was dismayed to see how poorly and incoherently the students - mostly graduates of high schools in our region  - wrote.

[Bigun]

Oh, I don't mind specs, but I really want to know the objective. Just what is it you want to accomplish?

I ran into that in industry, too, with some oil companies willing to test every zone that showed promise (an absolute joy to work for, and companies I found a lot of oil for, because they let me) and others who dogmatically insisted that there couldn't be any oil where we found it, but it HAD  to be where we didn't. (Their computer told them so).

Loved the work, worked with some absolutely wonderful people, a rare few jerks, but hated megacorp BS when and where I encountered it.

I'll bet I could name the companies but I won't!

[goodwithagun]

@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?

He retired from a college administration position and was dismayed to see how poorly and incoherently the students - mostly graduates of high schools in our region  - wrote.

Only Spanish is taught at SHS. Latin would be so beneficial!

[Bigun]

@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?

He retired from a college administration position and was dismayed to see how poorly and incoherently the students - mostly graduates of high schools in our region  - wrote.

Since he is a retired college administrator ask him how much they spent each year on remediation efforts to get incoming freshmen up to speed so they could attempt to do college-level work.  You WILL be shocked at the answer.

[verga]

I teach ELA and social studies in an urban high school. It's not easy, but I've come to look at it as my ministry. My kids attend our local private Catholic school and I get crap from both sides. I don't care! I'm staying in the public system because I work with "teachers" who literally sit on their butts and do nothing but collect pay checks. I stick around for the students that want to learn and the students that don't know they want to learn. It's frustrating, heartbreaking, and rewarding at the same time. I work from within to make a mockery of the union, our progressive discipline policy, and Ohio's state mandated cooperative learning groups. Pray for conservative public school teachers. We're fighting the good fight even though we're surrounded on all sides.

@goodwithagun I saw the same thing when I worked in an urban and to a much lesser extent suburban school. In the rural schools I don't see it hardly at all. In 15 years of teaching in a rural environment I only have see two teachers that taught so they could coach.

[verga]

It's everywhere. I'm 37, and 16 years ago I managed our city's pool. At 21 I struggled to find 16-20 year olds with a work ethic. It was really strange, but that trend has continued.

@Sanguine  @goodwithagun I think a lot (not all) has to do with location. In the rural areas it is either work or starve. most people (not all again) have a very good work ethic. They understand that their survival depends more on themselves.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine  @goodwithagun I think a lot (not all) has to do with location. In the rural areas it is either work or starve. most people (not all again) have a very good work ethic. They understand that their survival depends more on themselves.

@verga, Yes, you would think so.  However, I taught in a rural area.

[Bigun]

@Sanguine  @goodwithagun I think a lot (not all) has to do with location. In the rural areas it is either work or starve. most people (not all again) have a very good work ethic. They understand that their survival depends more on themselves.

“The mobs of the great cities add just so much to the support of pure government as sores do to the strength of the human body. It is the manners and spirit of a people which preserve a republic in vigor. A degeneracy in these is a canker which soon eats to the heart of its laws and constitution.”

Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XIX, 1782. ME 2:230


"I think our governments will remain virtuous for many centuries as long as they are chiefly agricultural, and this will be as long as there shall be vacant lands in any part of America. When they get piled upon one another in large cities as in Europe, they will become corrupt as in Europe.”

Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. Papers 12:442

[mountaineer]

Since he is a retired college administrator ask him how much they spent each year on remediation efforts to get incoming freshmen up to speed so they could attempt to do college-level work.  You WILL be shocked at the answer.

Fully half of the freshmen at his college required remedial coursework. He worked at two colleges, a private one considered quite exclusive and a public institution. At both places, the student newspapers were horrendous examples of poor writing. The state school wasn't the least bit selective when it came to admissions, but the writing was no worse there than at the private college.

The middle and high schools are failing these children. As I mentioned here the other day, my head nearly exploded when I looked at the agenda for my local school board's meeting recently and saw that they were approving a "field trip" for the fifth-graders to a bowling alley. Why the heck are we taxpayers transporting kiddies to a bowling alley in the middle of a school day when they're not learning even the fundamentals of the English language?  They're not going to a museum or the science center, they're going to a freaking bowling alley!  :nometalk:

[verga]

@goodwithagun , I should mention my husband is a product of the schools across the river from you (WHS '68), and he learned many of the things that aren't taught anymore, like sentence diagramming and proper grammar. A cousin of his taught Latin there. Do any public high schools offer Latin?

Our district does there is a waiting list to get in, and our kids consistently do very well on the National Latin exam.
I live just north of the Bible belt.

[Bigun]

Fully half of the freshmen at his college required remedial coursework. He worked at two colleges, a private one considered quite exclusive and a public institution. At both places, the student newspapers were horrendous examples of poor writing. The state school wasn't the least bit selective when it came to admissions, but the writing was no worse there than at the private college.

The middle and high schools are failing these children. As I mentioned here the other day, my head nearly exploded when I looked at the agenda for my local school board's meeting recently and saw that they were approving a "field trip" for the fifth-graders to a bowling alley. Why the heck are we taxpayers transporting kiddies to a bowling alley in the middle of a school day when they're not learning even the fundamentals of the English language?  They're not going to a museum or the science center, they're going to a freaking bowling alley!  :nometalk:

Not to mention learning nothing about their country's history and their heritage.

It literally makes me sick when I think about it.

[mountaineer]

Not to mention learning nothing about their country's history and their heritage.

It literally makes me sick when I think about it.

The college kids used to go to my husband for answers to their questions on history. One girl asked,  "Mr. M, who is 'ill dooce'?"

"Do you mean Il Duce?" he responded, proceeding with a dissertation on early 20th century Italy. The kids lapped it up. "Where did you learn all that stuff, Mr. M.?"

The funny thing is that his undergraduate degree wasn't even in history, but chemistry!

[Bigun]

The college kids used to go to my husband for answers to their questions on history. One girl asked,  "Mr. M, who is 'ill dooce'?"

"Do you mean Il Duce?" he responded, proceeding with a dissertation on early 20th century Italy. The kids lapped it up. "Where did you learn all that stuff, Mr. M.?"

The funny thing is that his undergraduate degree wasn't even in history, but chemistry!

Don't get me started!  I could go on for hours!

[Smokin Joe]

@goodwithagun @Doug Loss

The biggest challenge for conservatives today. Bringing the fundamentals to the attention of the younger people.

We need for them to understand freedom better. They want it, all young people do. It is at the core of their fundamental rebellious streak, to shuck the 'rules' and find their own way. The only way to nip that in the bud is to get them to understand those rules aren't there to punish them, but to keep them from some of life's more conspicuous pitfalls and save them a lot of pain and suffering. It is why Conservatives are the way we are, and many of us earned our political beliefs and even morals the hard way.

[verga]

We need for them to understand freedom better. They want it, all young people do. It is at the core of their fundamental rebellious streak, to shuck the 'rules' and find their own way. The only way to nip that in the bud is to get them to understand those rules aren't there to punish them, but to keep them from some of life's more conspicuous pitfalls and save them a lot of pain and suffering. It is why Conservatives are the way we are, and many of us earned our political beliefs and even morals the hard way.

And this is precisely why I am in education and I say more Conservatives need to get involved. Become teachers/ administrators, run for the school board.
We can't afford the luxury of sitting back and just wringing our hands. The liberals don't have us out numbered, they have us out positioned.

[Gefn]

Only Spanish is taught at SHS. Latin would be so beneficial!

I had Spanish and French in HS. I had to know Spanish and Latin (reading not speaking) for my Masters.

I studied Latin verbs and nouns for SAT prep and almost got a perfect score on the English part. I enjoyed Latin.

[mountaineer]

And this is precisely why I am in education and I say more Conservatives need to get involved. Become teachers/ administrators, run for the school board.
We can't afford the luxury of sitting back and just wringing our hands. The liberals don't have us out numbered, they have us out positioned.

I agree wholeheartedly. Our school board seems to be comprised of nothing but retired teachers and school employees (e.g., bus drivers), whose only interest is protecting teachers and employees - not improving the quality of education. It's time to look into becoming a candidate.

[Bigun]

And this is precisely why I am in education and I say more Conservatives need to get involved. Become teachers/ administrators, run for the school board.
We can't afford the luxury of sitting back and just wringing our hands. The liberals don't have us out numbered, they have us out positioned.

I spent the last 22.5 years of my working life working at one of our state institutions of "higher" learning here in Texas!  Didn't fit in all that well because I had spent the first 30  or so working in the private sector and the cultures clashed, to say the least.

[DB]

I spent the last 22.5 years of my working life working at one of our state institutions of "higher" learning here in Texas!  Didn't fit in all that well because I had spent the first 30  or so working in the private sector and the cultures clashed, to say the least.

Ya, it is always special when the "experts" in the education system tell people how various jobs/business work without any actual experience in that area whatsoever... The only teachers for business/job preparation that are really worthwhile are those who have had significant experience in the field from the private sector.

[ConstitutionRose]

I just want to say that good teachers are more precious than gold and jewels.

My son is very high IQ.  His nickname starting in first grade was "Encyclopedia".  He went to private school for K through 8th.  In the second grade his teacher was Mr. C, who was scheduled to retire that year.  He fell in love with my son and would tell the school each year, "I'll teach another year if I can teach the next grade up".  Thus he taught my son from 2nd thru 8th.  Bless that man, he really provided an education for what surely was a challenging boy.  High school was public school and it was hellish.  He was so bored that he simply didn't bother with home work, but always made 100's on the tests.  The high school suggested sending him to vocational school!  Oh, and they wouldn't put him in the advanced placement courses because his grades were not good enough.  Never mind the accumulated years of IQ tests that put him at the genius level.  At the beginning of his junior year, I agreed to let him take his GED and go to college.  His lowest score on the GED was 98 percentile.  He did brilliantly in college.  He might have actually studied a time or two. 

So along comes my even brighter grandson.  His K year he was ill and missed a lot of school.  They said he needed to be held back, not in math mind you, but because he wasn't up to par in reading.  I exploded all over the school system on that one.  No more repeats of bright bored little boys.  During the summer I taught him phonics and then shelled out the money to have him tested and evaluated.  Based on that they put him in the 2nd grade the next year.

He now attends a school with an integrated campus, so he can stay in home room with kids his age, but take math and science and other courses at the appropriate grade level - which this year (at age 10) is the 11th grade level. 

Without Mr. C, I don't know what would have happened to my son.  That man was truly instrumental in helping my son find success in life.