Author Topic: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm  (Read 2700 times)

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Online mountaineer

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Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« on: October 24, 2016, 03:44:27 pm »
Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
 By JOCELYN GECKER
Associated Press
Oct. 24, 2016
Quote
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- Pamela Buttery noticed something peculiar six years ago while practicing golf putting in her 57th-floor apartment at the luxurious Millennium Tower. The ball kept veering to the same corner of her living room.

Those were the first signs for residents of the sleek, mirrored high-rise that something was wrong.

The 58-story building has gained notoriety in recent weeks as the "leaning tower of San Francisco." But it's not just leaning. It's sinking, too. And engineers hired to assess the problem say it shows no immediate sign of stopping.

"What concerns me most is the tilting," says Buttery, 76, a retired real estate developer. "Is it safe to stay here? For how long?"

Completed seven years ago, the tower so far has sunk 16 inches into the soft soil and landfill of San Francisco's crowded financial district. But it's not sinking evenly, which has created a 2-inch tilt at the base - and a roughly 6-inch lean at the top.   ...

The geotechnical engineer leading the operation, Pat Shires, said existing data indicates the tower "might" sink between 24 to 31 inches in total, but nobody knows for sure.

When the Millennium Tower opened, it became a haven for the city's well-heeled, and all 419 apartments quickly sold out. Tenants have included former San Francisco 49er Joe Montana, late venture capitalist Tom Perkins and Giants outfielder Hunter Pence.

The building has a 75-foot indoor lap-pool, a health club and spa, an in-house cinema, and a restaurant and wine bar run by celebrity chef Michael Mina. Penthouses have sold for more than $10 million. ...
Excerpted; full story at Associated Press
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 03:55:14 pm »
Build on landfill, live with the uncertainty.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Online mountaineer

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 03:56:06 pm »
Indeed!
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2016, 01:50:17 am »
Don' worry folks -- it's "earthquake proof", I'm sure!

Online mountaineer

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2016, 01:15:28 pm »
That's the thing: did they think putting such a tall building on soft landfill in an earthquake-prone area was a safe move? Any civil engineers here?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2016, 02:01:24 pm »
That's the thing: did they think putting such a tall building on soft landfill in an earthquake-prone area was a safe move? Any civil engineers here?

I don't think we need an engineer to be able to answer that one.

Offline EC

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 02:05:32 pm »
The Great Engineer had a few words to say about building your foundation on rock, not sand.  :tongue2:

@RoosGirl  - any insights?
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Wingnut

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2016, 02:16:35 pm »
Bedrock in that area of SF is 200' below the surface.  The pilling were only driven 80' down.

Common core math makes it come out right.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 02:22:11 pm »
The Great Engineer had a few words to say about building your foundation on rock, not sand.  :tongue2:

@RoosGirl  - any insights?

Not really my forte as an engineer, but don't we all have the common sense to know that putting anything heavy on top of an old landfill isn't the best of ideas?  Jeez, I can't believe the geotech engineer even went along with that.  Wonder if the developers shopped around until they found a geotech that would sign off on their plan to build the cheaper foundation.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 02:58:22 pm »
Not really my forte as an engineer, but don't we all have the common sense to know that putting anything heavy on top of an old landfill isn't the best of ideas?  Jeez, I can't believe the geotech engineer even went along with that.  Wonder if the developers shopped around until they found a geotech that would sign off on their plan to build the cheaper foundation.


Most (or much) of Boston is built on landfill.

Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2016, 03:18:16 pm »

Most (or much) of Boston is built on landfill.

I would think that the either the landfills are much older (and so have had a lot more time to compact) than the one built upon in San Fran or the foundations of the buildings go down to something more solid or both.  Floating building foundation on trash that is still biodegrading and squishy just not a good idea in my book.

I posted the story to Facebook and tagged a friend who is a geotech engineer.  He said he had been following the story for about a month or so and his take was that either the engineers fell to the peer pressure of reducing the costs or someone was trying to prove that the design would work.  I would guess the former, I saw it happen all the time, but on a much smaller scale, developers doing everything they can to reduce the cost; can we go to 6" thick concrete driveway instead of 8" or 10" in loading bay areas, etc.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2016, 03:27:41 pm »
I would think that the either the landfills are much older (and so have had a lot more time to compact) than the one built upon in San Fran or the foundations of the buildings go down to something more solid or both.  Floating building foundation on trash that is still biodegrading and squishy just not a good idea in my book.

I posted the story to Facebook and tagged a friend who is a geotech engineer.  He said he had been following the story for about a month or so and his take was that either the engineers fell to the peer pressure of reducing the costs or someone was trying to prove that the design would work.  I would guess the former, I saw it happen all the time, but on a much smaller scale, developers doing everything they can to reduce the cost; can we go to 6" thick concrete driveway instead of 8" or 10" in loading bay areas, etc.


Plumb and level are overrated anyway.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 03:31:26 pm »
There was a building built in Manhattan in the 70's, the Citigroup Center I think (?), that after they built it they realized that hurricane-force winds would knock it over into other high rises. One estimate from the Red Cross was 200,000 deaths. So they had to fix the building from the inside, in secret. As they were fixing the buliding, a hurricane was approaching Manhattan and turned to sea at the last moment.


Offline thackney

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2016, 04:17:24 pm »
That's the thing: did they think putting such a tall building on soft landfill in an earthquake-prone area was a safe move? Any civil engineers here?

No problem, with a properly engineered foundation.  All it takes is time and money.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2016, 04:24:02 pm »
I read an article with more detail, I guess other SF tall buildings are more foundationally secure because they drove pilings into the landfill (as I believe buildings in Boston are done, at least some of them), however this building was built on a slab with no pilings. There are photos in the article of the concrete foundation crumbling away.

Offline thackney

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2016, 04:44:24 pm »
I read an article with more detail, I guess other SF tall buildings are more foundationally secure because they drove pilings into the landfill (as I believe buildings in Boston are done, at least some of them), however this building was built on a slab with no pilings. There are photos in the article of the concrete foundation crumbling away.

This was NOT built on a slab with no pilings.

It was built with insufficient pilings, but certainly with pilings.  950 pilings actually.

https://www.crsi.org/projects-responsive/project.cfm?articleID=EA730AAD-B098-BE14-D580ED9B65747C55
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 04:45:25 pm by thackney »
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Offline thackney

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2016, 04:47:33 pm »
An engineer’s short, simple explanation of Millennium Tower problem
http://sf.curbed.com/2016/9/16/12945600/why-millennium-tower-sinking
SEP 16, 2016

...Well, intrepid Iowa State University architectural design professor Tom Leslie (who noticed the building’s woes after reading the recent New York Times story) has now explained it via the simplest analogy possible, that of a mere stick.

The Concrete Steel Reinforcement Institute’s case study of the building (the Millennium is a concrete-framed building, rather than the more popular steel designs used in most San Francisco buildings) says that the Millennium’s foundations rest on 950 friction piles.



A friction pile is simply a long, cylinder-shaped construction shoved into the ground, with the weight of the building on top of it. The Millennium Tower piles are roughly fourteen inches to a side—which may not sound very big relative to the frame, but remember that there are almost 1,000 of them.

This Norwegian University of Science and Technology paper explains that if the piles aren’t long enough to touch bedrock, they rely on the friction of the surrounding soil for support (hence the name). What does that mean? Leslie’s stick explains it all:

"Imagine driving a broomstick into sand. You can only go so far before there’s enough broomstick in contact with the sand to put up fearsome resistance." Eventually, even all of the pressure you can muster won’t push the stick in any further.

And that’s the principle that’s supposed to keep the building in place: Its own weight (14,000 pounds per square foot, according to CSRI), distributed over the 950 piles, contested by the resistance of the soil against those piles, all sitting in a big, giant, concrete-framed equilibrium....
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Online mountaineer

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2016, 05:00:40 pm »
I love to ask a question around here and get such good responses! Thanks for the info, everyone.
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2016, 05:07:49 pm »
@thackney Interesting.  Thanks for the additional info.  I wonder how they'll end up fixing this.  The engineers have got to be sweating bullets.  If it settles a total of 34", or even the 12" that it's settled so far, how do you fix that?  How do you get into the building now?  Did they have to build steps to get down into it?  What about the water and sewer and other utilities?  Those pipes aren't flexible, how do they remain connected?

Offline thackney

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2016, 05:21:57 pm »
@thackney Interesting.  Thanks for the additional info.  I wonder how they'll end up fixing this.  The engineers have got to be sweating bullets.  If it settles a total of 34", or even the 12" that it's settled so far, how do you fix that?  How do you get into the building now?  Did they have to build steps to get down into it?  What about the water and sewer and other utilities?  Those pipes aren't flexible, how do they remain connected?

Remember it was designed for settlement in the first place, it is just settling more than expected.

https://architecturefarm.wordpress.com/2016/09/15/floating-foundations-out-west/

...What’s to be done?  All kinds of possibilities.  Adding piles under whatever part is experiencing greater settlement is one.  Soil remediation with concrete is another, but unlikely given the surrounding soil.  It’s possible that doing nothing is the best option–as long as the settlement is slow it may be that the building is entirely habitable for generations before things get too far out of hand.

But my favorite solution is the one finally employed in 1907 at the Fisher Building.  The owners bought the lot to the immediate north of the leaning tower and constructed a slightly taller, heaver structure there, rigidly connected to the existing building’s steel frame.  The new structure is tiny, but it balances out the lean of the older structure and literally helps to keep it upright.  Sort of like the designated driver (left, below) walking a drunk friend (right, below) home from a late night…

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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2016, 05:46:59 pm »
I did not catch that they were expecting some settlement.  Things don't settle like that around these parts.  If they do we suspect a sinkhole, so I come at this story with that mindset.  http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/os-fla360-pictures-winter-park-sinkhole-20121113-photogallery.html

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2016, 05:49:06 pm »
@thackney Interesting.  Thanks for the additional info.  I wonder how they'll end up fixing this.
A come-along and a couple shims?  :laugh:

Just kidding.
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2016, 06:57:27 pm »
A come-along and a couple shims?  :laugh:

Just kidding.

You forgot about the load bearing duct tape.

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Re: Tilting, sinking San Francisco high-rise raises alarm
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2016, 08:44:23 pm »
I bet the folk from Ram Jack Foundation repair could make it right. 40 years experience, lifetime guarantee, industry-leading patented concrete repairs.