Author Topic: Third Parties in America  (Read 813 times)

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Online libertybele

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Third Parties in America
« on: September 28, 2016, 05:19:39 pm »
I am not posting this by any means to discourage anyone from voting their conscience but rather to perhaps enlighten some as to why the chances of a third party actually winning is slim to none if not nearly impossible.

excerpts from the book "Third Parties in America"
by Steven J. Rosenstone, Roy L. Behr, Edward H. Lazarus
Princeton University Press, 1984, paper

...To UNDERSTAND the significance of a third party vote, one must first recognize how difficult an act it is to undertake. A host of barriers, disadvantages, and strategies block the path of would-be third party supporters. So formidable are these hurdles that third party voting occurs only under the most extreme conditions... third parties will never be on equal footing with the two major parties and help explain why a third party vote signifies something very different from a vote for either the Democrats or Republicans.
The two major parties, in Schattschneider's words, "monopolize power" (1942, p. 68). They are able to do so via three routes. First, barriers-powerful constitutional, legal, and administrative provisions-bias the electoral system against minor party challenges and discourage candidates and voters from abandoning the major parties. Third party movements are further handicapped because they have fewer resources, suffer from poorer press coverage, usually run weaker, less qualified candidates, and do not share the legitimacy of the major parties. Citizens do not accord minor party candidates the same status as the Democratic and Republican nominees; they see third party challengers as standing outside the American two-party system. These handicaps, by and large a side effect of the way the electoral system is set up, raise the cost of third party voting. A third party vote, therefore, does not merely signify the selection of one of three equally attractive options; it is an extraordinary act that requires the voter to reject explicitly the major parties...

...BARRIERS
The rules that govern elections in the United States are far from neutral. They form barriers that block the emergence and discourage the growth of more than two parties. These biases help ensure that the Democrats and Republicans retain their position of dominance. The founding fathers created some of these barriers; the two major parties have helped erect others.

CONSTITUTIONAL BIAS
The Electoral College system is particularly harsh in its discrimination against nationally based third parties that fall short of a popular vote plurality in every state. John Anderson, for instance, did not capture a single electoral vote in 1980, though he polled 6.6 percent of the popular vote. The Electoral College does favor regionally based third party candidates who are strong enough in particular states to gain pluralities. For example, in 1948, States' Rights nominee Strom Thurmond obtained 7.3 percent of the Electoral College vote with only 2.4 percent of the national popular vote.
Contrary to popular belief, most current proposals for eliminating the Electoral College would not benefit third parties. The most widely supported plan calls for the direct popular election of the president with a runoff if no candidate receives 40 percent of the votes cast. But as long as a president can be elected with less than an absolute majority of the popular vote, the plan would, for all practical purposes, work like a single-member-district plurality system. To prevent either the Democrats or Republicans from collecting 40 percent of the vote, minor parties would obviously have to poll at least 20 percent. This has happened only three times since 1840. Any direct vote system that allows a party to win with less than a full majority of the popular vote would hinder third parties, though the larger the plurality required to elect a president, the lower the barrier becomes....

...BALLOT ACCESS RESTRICTIONS
The Democrats and Republicans have constructed a maze of cumbersome regulations and procedures that make it difficult for minor parties and independent candidates to gain a spot on the general election ballot. Whereas major party candidates automatically appear on the ballot, third parties must petition state election officials to be listed. A candidate whose name does not appear is obviously disadvantaged: voters are not cued when they enter the polling booth; it is difficult and at times embarrassing for a voter to cast a write-in ballot...

...Because the states determine their own ballot access laws, minor party candidates wishing to place their names before the voters must overcome fifty-one different sets of bureaucratic hurdles. This is an arduous task for third party contenders, even well-financed ones. Petitions must be circulated within a specific time period that varies from state to state. They can be distributed only between early June and early August in California, for instance, and between August 1 and September 1 in Indiana. Filing deadlines also vary by state, and many occur relatively early in the election cycle-before the major parties have held their conventions....

...CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS
The 1974 Federal Election Campaign Act (FECA) is the most recent instance of the major parties adopting a "reform" that freezes out third party challengers. Under the law, the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) provides the major party presidential nominees a lump sum ($29.4 million in 1980) for their campaigns. On top of this, the Democratic and Republican National Committees can raise and spend as much as they need to pay for legal and accounting expenses incurred in complying with the act. State and local party committees can raise and spend an unlimited amount on voter registration, get-out-the-vote drives, and other volunteer activities. "Independent" committees can also spend freely on behalf of the major parties.
Third parties, on the other hand, are eligible to receive public funds only after the November election, and then only if they appear on the ballot in at least ten states and obtain at least 5 percent of the national popular vote. The exact amount a candidate receives increases with his total vote (assuming the initial ten state provision is met). Given these requirements, only 10 of the 148 minor party candidates (7 percent) that have emerged in more than one state since 1840 would have qualified for retroactive public financing. Although third party candidates are denied the benefits of the pre-election subsidy, they must still comply with the FECA rules on disclosure of campaign contributions and are bound by the ceilings of $1,000 per election from individuals and $5,000 from political action committees...

The list of disadvantages that a 3rd party experiences goes on -- full article:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Political_Reform/Third_Parties_America.html

« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 05:23:16 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline ABX

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Re: Third Parties in America
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 05:30:48 pm »
They should be banned. The American public should only be allowed the choice from the two entrenched political parties, period. Otherwise, some third party may spoil a race an entrenched party should win.Third parties will do nothing but challenge power structures and give people a choice they shouldn't have.

Offline Taxcontrol

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Re: Third Parties in America
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 05:31:43 pm »
I would provide a counter point that a 3rd party SIGNIFICANTLY out performed the GOP in 2010 Colorado Gov race.

Nominee           John Hickenlooper   Tom Tancredo   Dan Maes
Party                   Democratic                   Constitution   Republican
Popular vote   912,005                   651,232           199,034
Percentage           51.0%                   36.4%           11.1%

My point is that there are other reasons for voting 3rd party and voting for a 3rd party candidate can be and often is a vote it support of the party more than the candidate.  Sometimes it is the other way around.  But at no time, should third parties be dismissed out of hand.  Most people who vote 3rd party are not doing so because they feel their candidate will win.  I am voting 3rd party as a PROTEST against both NY liberals for President.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Third Parties in America
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 05:39:40 pm »
I think what's really overlooked in the third party debate is voters.  The third party mantra seems to be "if we build it, they will come", but I don't think that's true.  Both parties have comparatively broad tents.  A constitutionalist or libertarian can run in the GOP primary.  An full-out Socialist of Green can run in the Democrat primary.  And both the GOP and Democrats only represent a subset of total voters.  So if you can't even win a plurality of voters within that subset of the electorate, what real chance to you have as a third party?  It's almost impossible to imagine how that would even work.

Let's say Mr. Castle from the Constitution Party had first tried to run in the GOP primary.  He appears in the debates, gets his air-time, and but couldn't get over 10% of the vote.  What are his realistic prospects as a third party candidate?  IF he can't even get 10% among the more conservative (or less liberal) segment of the electorate, that percentage is only going to drop when you're talking about the more liberal general electorate.  Where exactly are all those voters who are going to put him over the top?  And if they truly are that fond of him, why didn't they vote in the GOP primary and help nominate the guy?

Before the era of the primary, when candidates were selected by party bigwigs in the proverbial smoke-filled room...sure, third parties made sense because it was the only way to appeal directly to voters.  But in the mass-voting era of the caucus/primary, pretty much anyone can choose to run in a party primary, and shift the direction of that party by having his/her supporters nominate him.  That would appear and easier, more logical route to win an election than running as a third party.

In other words, I think there is a self-selection issue with third party candidates.  They choose to run that way precisely because they know they could not win a primary, which amounts to a confession of a lack of voter support.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Third Parties in America
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 05:51:58 pm »
I would provide a counter point that a 3rd party SIGNIFICANTLY out performed the GOP in 2010 Colorado Gov race.

Does that mean Constitution Party would get the second line in future ballots?

In New York, parties are listed on the ballot in the order of votes they received in the most recent gubernatorial race.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Third Parties in America
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 05:55:46 pm »
I would provide a counter point that a 3rd party SIGNIFICANTLY out performed the GOP in 2010 Colorado Gov race.

Nominee           John Hickenlooper   Tom Tancredo   Dan Maes
Party                   Democratic                   Constitution   Republican
Popular vote   912,005                   651,232           199,034
Percentage           51.0%                   36.4%           11.1%

My point is that there are other reasons for voting 3rd party and voting for a 3rd party candidate can be and often is a vote it support of the party more than the candidate.  Sometimes it is the other way around.  But at no time, should third parties be dismissed out of hand.  Most people who vote 3rd party are not doing so because they feel their candidate will win.  I am voting 3rd party as a PROTEST against both NY liberals for President.

I don't think that 3rd parties should be dismissed by any means I just was hopefully enlightening some to the reality that 3rd parties and their candidates are not on equal footing.

Should Hillary get in, amnesty will be granted and the demographics of the electorate will change significantly and we won't see a GOP candidate win for decades because they will be outnumbered by DEM voters; basically the GOP will become insignificant and in essence we will have only one party.  If that should happen, it is then that perhaps a new party may have a chance of emerging and succeeding as an alternative to the DEMS.

As for voting 3rd party this election as a protest against the corruption that happened at the Convention and against the Washington cartel, I plan on voting right along with you!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 06:11:52 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.