Author Topic: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full  (Read 6442 times)

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Offline Vulcan

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2016, 12:29:55 am »
It’s not old news for me.  Thanks for posting it.

As a small business owner I revile people like Trump who live in opulence while not paying what is owned to the small guy.

Trump truly is a bottom feeder, the worst of the worst.


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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2016, 01:05:41 am »
It’s not old news for me.  Thanks for posting it.

As a small business owner I revile people like Trump who live in opulence while not paying what is owned to the small guy.

Trump truly is a bottom feeder, the worst of the worst.

@Vulcan, you're welcome.

Trump has nothing but contempt for the little folk.

Offline Vulcan

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2016, 05:35:33 am »
@Vulcan, you're welcome.

Trump has nothing but contempt for the little folk.

@CatherineofAragon

Trump is trash, white trash. 

He stiffed hard-working Americans out of what he owed them so he could throw money away on things like gold plating the seat belts on his plane.   I don't care how he lives, but he should pay his debts.  Not only doesn't he pay his debts, he brags about not doing so.   

When it comes to being a lowlife, Donny J Trump really has no conscience. 

Offline Just_Victor

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2016, 12:11:50 pm »
Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.

If the work is substandard, then Trump should demand that the work be done correctly and according to the contract.  The purpose is to, in this case, get the bathroom partitions installed.  Why isn't Trump demanding that the work be corrected?  Instead he is just refusing to pay.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 12:17:05 pm by Just_Victor »
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #29 on: September 21, 2016, 12:22:05 pm »
Trump's supporters just look right past this.  They do not care about any of it.  They will when he turns on them.

He already has turned on them multiple times. They accept it now but won't do so forever.

Offline Applewood

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2016, 12:43:55 pm »
If the work is substandard, then Trump should demand that the work be done correctly and according to the contract.  The purpose is to, in this case, get the bathroom partitions installed.  Why isn't Trump demanding that the work be corrected?  Instead he is just refusing to pay.

Where I live, arbitration is an option in such disputes.  If arbitration was available, why didn't Trump go that route?

Maybe this is how he can afford his lavish lifestyle --stiff the little guy. Did Trump learn this technique at Wharton?

Offline Just_Victor

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2016, 12:49:03 pm »
Where I live, arbitration is an option in such disputes.  If arbitration was available, why didn't Trump go that route?

Maybe this is how he can afford his lavish lifestyle --stiff the little guy. Did Trump learn this technique at Wharton?

But the point is that you get the work corrected so that your hotel/casino is up to standard.  If you don't demand that the work be corrected it must be because the work was satisfactory.  Ergo, the owner is just being an @$$ and is stiffing his contractors because he can.
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Offline Applewood

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2016, 12:49:04 pm »
Trump's supporters just look right past this.  They do not care about any of it.  They will when he turns on them.

I believe many of his supporters don't think this matter is all that important -- that it has no bearing on his capabilities as President.  But I think it does.  If the US makes agreements with other countries, is president Trump going to suddenly decide to welch on those agreements?  We already have a shaky relationship with our allies that must be repaired.  I suspect a Trump presidency will leave the US friendless. 

Offline bolobaby

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2016, 01:52:57 pm »
This is old news... Trump said the guy did substandard work... who knows?

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

Yeah, right. After he told him he didn't want to pay him the full amount, he also told him that he could work on future Trump projects if he took the deal.

If he did substandard work, he wouldn't want him on future Trump projects. He just wanted to get the best "deal" he could by screwing the little guy.

Pay close attention to that, little guy - aka voters.

(Little guy comment directed to voters in general, not you WTF. Also, see before to further answer the "who knows" part of your comment. EVERYBODY knows. It had nothing to do with substandard work. He was in the business of screwing everybody.)
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 02:05:16 pm by bolobaby »
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2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

Offline bolobaby

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2016, 01:59:55 pm »
Also, this article is just a SAMPLING of contractors Trump has screwed over. I've read additional articles containing stories from other contractors, like this one...

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?/sites/forbestreptalks/2016/07/13/this-architect-says-trump-almost-destroyed-his-business-but-that-doesnt-mean-they-cant-get-coffee

(I love this quote, "Although I resent that he shorted me a huge amount of money, his organization does that to everybody. At the time I could see that the carpenters, the tile guy, the landscape consultant, the mechanical engineering consultant, other vendors and tradespeople were all subjected to an after-the-fact renegotiation challenge.")

...or this one...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTKsO8ChcXw

...or this one...

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/tama-starr-ugly-art-trump-deals-article-1.2422470

...here's a better overview article as it cites numbers of lawsuits against Trump for not paying his bills...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

...it just goes on and on.
How to lose credibility while posting:
1. Trump is never wrong.
2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

Offline corbe

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2016, 03:10:43 pm »
    It's a NY Liberal Thing, something in the water, I guess


No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2016, 07:46:09 pm »
But the point is that you get the work corrected so that your hotel/casino is up to standard.  If you don't demand that the work be corrected it must be because the work was satisfactory.  Ergo, the owner is just being an @$$ and is stiffing his contractors because he can.
Yep. I had a contract tender from a former employer once which stipulated that if he decided the work was "substandard" whether or not the client accepted and paid, he didn't have to pay me. I had a two word, not so very nice response to that and never worked for the guy again. Then, in the next year, while working for another employer, quietly recruited every hand he had who was worth his paycheck.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2016, 08:33:22 pm »
I believe many of his supporters don't think this matter is all that important -- that it has no bearing on his capabilities as President.  But I think it does.  If the US makes agreements with other countries, is president Trump going to suddenly decide to welch on those agreements?  We already have a shaky relationship with our allies that must be repaired.  I suspect a Trump presidency will leave the US friendless.
This is just one of many character flaws which would be a deal-breaker, for me.

He has a tendency to attack first, get facts later, and if the facts don't agree with his actions, he'll lie and double down on the attack. (The way he dealt with the Liz Mair PAC ad)

He will lie about people, commonly hanging a derogatory nickname on them, if they are in disagreement with him. ("Dopey Prince Al-Waleed" was one long before he went up against Cruz, "Crooked Hillary" another after). Such childishness might play with the masses in a campaign, but the core of it is a need to feel superior to his opponents, belying someone who is far less secure than they project.

His constant shifting of positions (If it isn't in writing and signed, it isn't a deal, and then the lawyers can break it), sometimes within hours (as with his stance on Common Core).  Not something to hang national policy on.

His stiffing of subcontractors merely provides an indicator that if he feels he will gain, screwing the little guy is okay. Making the little guy take a partial settlement in exchange for the promise of more work (Duh. You screwed me once and you want me to go back for seconds?) is a common tactic. His 'moral compass' points in one direction consistently, toward himself.

Does anyone think he will take his multinational corporation and put it in a blind trust and then act in the Country's best interest, even if it means his assets lose value overseas? It isn't as if he won't know where those assets are. Will his actions be influenced by the effect those actions will have on the value of those assets? If the leaders of ISIS were having a convention in one of his hotels, would he order it bombed to rubble, knowing the insurance would not pay off on an act of war declared or undeclared?
 
The need to occupy the spotlight as shown by the dramatic and planned interruption of Cruz' speech and the orchestrated booing at the convention. Not only did this present himself in a glorifying light to his supporters, but was designed to humiliate a former opponent instead of using the statement by that former opponent to promote his campaign. Trump took a possible advantage and opportunity to heal the schism in the party and instead, produced a festering sore in his quest for personal revenge because Cruz would not endorse him.
That, somehow, he felt entitled to that endorsement bespeaks a need to be placed on a pedestal, held in high esteem, even worshiped on Trump's part, which exposes a hungry ego that craves adulation. The response to that lack of adulation, an attack--even when that did not best serve long-term goals and Trump knew Cruz would not endorse after Trump's attacks on Cruz' family--bespeaks not just a sudden anger response, but one which was considered and orchestrated, planned well in advance of its execution.  The job of President of the United States comes with no guarantee of ego-reinforcement, in fact, it is one open to serious attack, from the domestic press and foreign sources as well. Trump mentioned the weakening of the First Amendment, and with his need for constant glorification and to attack those who vilify him or are even simply neutral, what will become of political discourse during a Trump Presidency if he can't handle criticism?

A "more efficient" Federal Government is one of Trump's selling points. We don't need more efficiency so much as we need less Federal Governance in our private lives, and for the Federal Government to enforce the laws it has already in re the border and national security. It isn't a question of efficiency, but the will to do so. Downsizing the Government, reducing its scope and returning the power usurped from the States and the People to its rightful place will help balance the Federal Budget. More government will not. More efficient Government will continue to damage American industry, more efficiently. That won't Make America Great Again.

Finally, pandering to the Ethanol lobby to garner favor of the Governor in Iowa (mere hours after Cruz had come out against the mandate, invoking the ire of the Governor whose son is/was an ethanol industry lobbyist), at the expense of those who own older vehicles, small engines from outboard motors to leaf blowers and generators, and motorcycles/ATVs, and 10% of the fuel mileage most of America gets, while claiming he will use the one Agency which has done more damage to American Industry than any other to the "fullest extent of the law" to enforce that mandate. 

It is said, "No candidate is perfect.", but did the Republican Party have to pull one out of the hat who so thoroughly exemplifies that?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2016, 08:49:00 pm »
Where I live, arbitration is an option in such disputes.  If arbitration was available, why didn't Trump go that route?

Maybe this is how he can afford his lavish lifestyle --stiff the little guy. Did Trump learn this technique at Wharton?
Isn't it part of the Rules of Acquisition The Art of the Deal?
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Offline Fantom

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2016, 11:13:43 pm »
Yep. I had a contract tender from a former employer once which stipulated that if he decided the work was "substandard" whether or not the client accepted and paid, he didn't have to pay me. I had a two word, not so very nice response to that and never worked for the guy again. Then, in the next year, while working for another employer, quietly recruited every hand he had who was worth his paycheck.

Don't Ya' just love "Gorilla Clauses"?

I had one contract a few years back that the very first line read..."No Redaction's Allowed". Yep, that was the first line I redacted. Did not get the contract...did not go hungry.

trump would have to pay me in advance for any of my work.

Just sayin'.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2016, 11:58:22 pm »
They do this because they know its hard for small companies to sue.   I've spoken with people at big companies who refuse to pay small companies just for fun.

@driftdriver

They also know that because small companies can't afford to hire and pay competent lawyers that they will almost always settle of half of what they are owed,or even less,because they have to have the money to pay their employees and suppliers.

Trump is a business predator,and has admitted it in the past because his stand that the purpose of a business is to make money for it's owner and shareholders,and by extension anything they do to maximize profit is acceptable no matter who gets hurt.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2016, 12:10:17 am »
The small companies should partial bill, keeping the amount below the small claims maximum.  It is easy and cheap to take them to small claims court.

Easy to say and hard to do. Every small company on the planet dreams of being a larger company,and the way to do that is to find a huge company to hire and recommend you. The big companies know this and they know they can usually string along a small contractor with promises of giving them a draw "in a couple of weeks after I collect a little myself,but I really need this part of the project completed so I can show progress to my investors." They string them along and then string them along,and sometimes end up declaring bankruptcy (sound familiar,Donald?) to avoid paying anything after bleeding the company dry,and then their cousins or other business partners buy it up at a dime on the dollar at the bankruptcy sale,and they are back in business.

I had a close friend that happened to. He had worked for years as a VERY honest contractor that always paid and treated his employees right,and making a name for himself building custom housing in a resort area. He thought he had struck gold when the owners of a new exclusive gold course that was to include housing approached him about becoming their general contractor. Things worked well at first,and he was making some decent bucks and employing several sub-contractors. Then suddenly the owners told him they had their cash tied up in some sort of complicated plan,but that it would be freed up in 60 days or so and then they would pay him off in full plus interest,but right NOW they needed the new club house with the heated indoor pool built,and needed him to charge the materials and hire the subcontractors to get the work done now so THEY could make a draw.

Instead they declared bankruptcy,their cousins bought the golf course and all the improvements at the bankruptcy sale,and my friend was left facing law suits from several building supply places and sub-contractors. This was in the VERY early 70's,and he was on the verge of being a genuine millionaire when this happened. He lost everything he had,right down to his own rental property and his trucks and tools. On top of that he still owed a bundle to different people because his assets sold for a small percentage of what he owed at that point. He ended up just walking away from all of it and nobody I know of has seen him since.

You will never convince me that wasn't a part of the plan from the beginning.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2016, 12:12:14 am »
Yeah and if Trump had thousands of contractors?
@Weird Tolkienish Figure

True,who knows,he may have had MILLIONS of contractors he left holding the bag because he cheated them out of the money he owed them by declaring bankruptcy. After all,he is "The Donald" and never does nothing small.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2016, 12:13:26 am »
Apparently small business owners are losers along with captured soldiers.

@Cripplecreek

True Dat  :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2016, 12:15:31 am »
Yet it's possible to reach a reasonable conclusion based on character (or lack of same), previous events, and habitual behavior.

I think the claims are true.

@CatherineofAragon

Well,if what people with nothing better to do with their time that read his brain farts are telling the truth,bankruptcy is a part of his business model in "The Art of the Deal".

We know he has done this at least 4 times in the US and once in Mexico. I don't know for sure about the US deals,but I do know on the Mexican deals the condo owners and corporation he hosed had to settle for less than half of what they were owned,and had to sign a contract refusing to disclose the amount they got or the terms,and the contract they signed said they were in full agreement with the payout.

BTW,these were American citizens he was selling condos to in an exclusive beachfront gated retirement community. Given the money he pays his lawyers,he HAD to have known it is illegal for foreigners to own beach front property in Mexico,but somehow no mention of that was made in the sales brochures or in the contracts.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 12:19:32 am by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2016, 12:24:24 am »
@Vulcan, you're welcome.

Trump has nothing but contempt for the little folk.

He also has contempt for people "bigger" than him,as well as jealousy.

He would never admit it,though. Not even to himself. He is "The Donald",and "The Donald is a winner".

The man is barking at the moon nuts.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2016, 12:27:54 am »
Where I live, arbitration is an option in such disputes.  If arbitration was available, why didn't Trump go that route?

Maybe this is how he can afford his lavish lifestyle --stiff the little guy. Did Trump learn this technique at Wharton?

@Applewood

It is his business model. He bankrupted the luxury condo site in Mexico after getting appointed to the board by billing all his and his family personal debts to the corporation. He and Ivanka were on the board payroll,and I suspect his sons were,too. All of them bleeding it dry and him writing checks out of corporate funds to pay their bills.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2016, 12:31:37 am »
Don't Ya' just love "Gorilla Clauses"?

I had one contract a few years back that the very first line read..."No Redaction's Allowed". Yep, that was the first line I redacted. Did not get the contract...did not go hungry.

trump would have to pay me in advance for any of my work.

Just sayin'.

@Fantom

You would be a fool to do it then because once you completed the work he would sue you for substandard work,and keep you tied up with legal fees until it got to the point where you would pay him just be able to get free. Since his lawyers are on retainer 24/7,it doesn't even cost him a dime he wasn't already paying.
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2016, 12:43:32 am »
Sorry but I see you guys as the flip side of the pro-Trumpers: willing to believe only bad things about Trump.

This is he-said she said. The courts settled this, we've really only heard one side of this. Trump said he did substandard work.

Of course you guys would take the guy's side, because you hate Trump.

I say it was apparently worked out in the justice system. Obviously if Trump was this bad I fail to see why anyone would work with the guy.

Offline Fantom

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Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2016, 12:49:02 am »
@Fantom

You would be a fool to do it then because once you completed the work he would sue you for substandard work,and keep you tied up with legal fees until it got to the point where you would pay him just be able to get free. Since his lawyers are on retainer 24/7,it doesn't even cost him a dime he wasn't already paying.

Not really, assets behind legal firewall.

Second would be my "gorilla clause".  "In any dispute as to work done in manner or time, trump(customer) agrees to not sue or seek arbitration. Any attempt to do so will be paid in full by customer for any and all expenses, legal, pain and suffering of Contractor(me) as well as any unspecified damages and expenses,  incurred."

Along with..." At any time should Contractor(me) feel that Contractor is being treated in a substandard manner by Customer(trump) or any party such as Customer may send/employ. Contract may be terminated by Contractor(me) with no notice and all payments are forfeit.

I am sure it would be fun right.

Now I will never be working for him.. but I will not go hungry.
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