Author Topic: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full  (Read 6448 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« on: September 20, 2016, 08:31:30 pm »

The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
09/14/16

by Laura Dolan and Jessica Schneider


"It was like we won the lottery," Beth Rosser remembers. Her dad, Forest Jenkins, had just secured a $200,000 contract to work at the biggest prize in Atlantic City: Donald Trump's Taj Mahal.

His company installed toilet partitions -- not exactly glamorous, but important nonetheless. It was 1988, and a six-figure contract was huge.

"It was a big job. It was great. We were all excited," says Forest's son Steven Jenkins. Jenkins spent a month working at the Taj. "I had the fuzz from those carpets on the wheels of my dolly for months after that job."

But what seemed like a winning ticket soon turned into a nightmare when the paycheck never came.

"We weren't this big company," remembers Rosser, who now runs the company with her brother, Steven. "We didn't have tons of money in an account somewhere to cover things."

Jenkins says his dad, who built the company from nothing, nearly lost everything.

Read more at:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/trump-small-business-owners/index.html?sr=twCNN091716trump-small-business-owners0101PMStoryPhoto&linkId=28763957

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 08:33:28 pm »
Also from the article:

"We had already worked for three (general contractors), and every single one of them lived up to their word until Donald Trump came to Atlantic City," Friel says.

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 08:35:16 pm »
Also from the article:

"We had already worked for three (general contractors), and every single one of them lived up to their word until Donald Trump came to Atlantic City," Friel says.

They do this because they know its hard for small companies to sue.   I've spoken with people at big companies who refuse to pay small companies just for fun.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 08:40:45 pm »
They do this because they know its hard for small companies to sue.   I've spoken with people at big companies who refuse to pay small companies just for fun.

That's right in character for Trump.  In fact, the person quoted said the same thing.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,169
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2016, 08:41:27 pm »
This is old news... Trump said the guy did substandard work... who knows?

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2016, 08:46:51 pm »
This is old news... Trump said the guy did substandard work... who knows?

It's not old for me, and I'm probably not the only one.  I just read about it.

Besides, there's more than one guy.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,169
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2016, 08:48:19 pm »
It's not old for me, and I'm probably not the only one.  I just read about it.

Besides, there's more than one guy.

Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2016, 08:51:59 pm »
Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.

And plenty do fine work.  We already know what kind of person Trump is.

Did you read the article?  Dozens of contractors went unpaid.


Offline Texas Yellow Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,419
  • Gender: Female
  • Native Texan
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2016, 08:53:03 pm »
They do this because they know its hard for small companies to sue.   I've spoken with people at big companies who refuse to pay small companies just for fun.

The small companies should partial bill, keeping the amount below the small claims maximum.  It is easy and cheap to take them to small claims court.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,169
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2016, 09:06:42 pm »
And plenty do fine work.  We already know what kind of person Trump is.

Did you read the article?  Dozens of contractors went unpaid.



Yeah and if Trump had thousands of contractors?

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2016, 09:08:53 pm »
Yeah and if Trump had thousands of contractors?

Who knows? 


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,169
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2016, 09:19:16 pm »
Who knows? 



Which is exactly what I was saying.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2016, 09:25:47 pm »
Which is exactly what I was saying.

Still pure speculation that doesn't do a thing to disprove the claims of the business owners in the article.

And considering what we know of Trump, the truth is decidedly weighted in their favor.

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2016, 09:29:22 pm »
Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.

It's not he said she said.   Contracts are involved as are ethics and morals.

I know where I'd place the blame and it sure isn't the quality of the work.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Cripplecreek

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,718
  • Gender: Male
  • Constitutional Extremist
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2016, 09:32:13 pm »
Apparently small business owners are losers along with captured soldiers.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,169
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2016, 09:37:08 pm »
Still pure speculation that doesn't do a thing to disprove the claims of the business owners in the article.

And considering what we know of Trump, the truth is decidedly weighted in their favor.

Impossible to prove a negative. I saw nothing in the article proving anything either way.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2016, 09:40:27 pm »
Apparently small business owners are losers along with captured soldiers.

And the military in general.

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2016, 09:47:46 pm »
Impossible to prove a negative. I saw nothing in the article proving anything either way.

Yet it's possible to reach a reasonable conclusion based on character (or lack of same), previous events, and habitual behavior.

I think the claims are true.

Offline chae

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 483
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2016, 09:52:38 pm »
I live in a pretty low crime area.  Someone broke into my car and stole my wallet and various items over the weekend.  Other people in my neighborhood had this happen as well.  About 4 blocks away, the cops caught a guy breaking into a car and arrested him.  Turns out he has priors that involve breaking into cars and and unoccupied residences in other areas. 
Can I prove in a court of law that it was this guy who broke into my car, no I can't.  Am I reasonably certain it was this guy, yes.
I look at Trump in this same way. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 09:53:15 pm by chae »

Offline Suppressed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,921
  • Gender: Male
    • Avatar
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2016, 10:20:30 pm »
This is old news... Trump said the guy did substandard work... who knows?

...then invited contractors to bid on future work after making that claim.

If their work had really been substandard, why would he offer future work to them?

He's a low-life, dishonest sleaze.  Period.
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,735
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2016, 10:29:44 pm »
Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.

That isn't how this works.

A good general contractor that does good work, hits his marks on timing, and pays his bills, very quickly develops his 'crew' from good and capable subcontractors. Once he finds good guys that work well together, he just starts feeding the pig.
He won't look for bids, and he won't change anything up, because when a crew of subs know each other, and interact with each other, the jobs are basically on auto-pilot. That's where the magic is, and that's where the money is for everyone.

It's a team sport - and when he goes sideways on a job, his subs will break their asses putting it right again. And he always rewards that loyalty, one way or another.

A bad general contractor has poor subs and poor production, because he does substandard work and hires the cheapest bid he can get. He doesn't have that synchronicity between regular subs,  Because he never gets to keep his subs. Either they are working too cheap to get in with him, and can't make money, or he abuses them in some way and they walk.

In such a case, the money is likely to be tight, because the jobs go long, and are full of SNAFUs. When the job goes sideways, the contractor necessarily becomes a little Napoleon, trying to beat it back into shape. That means abusing the subs. If that isn't enough (and it never is when there is no working interrelationship between the crews), the only other way to bring the job to heel is to start dicking the subs to save money.

I played this game for most of my life, helping to put beautiful luxury homes in the ground. I had my pick of the best contractors to work for, and I was seldom out of work. In fact, I was usually booking 6-8 months out on schedules.

If I found a contractor to be regularly switching out subcontractors, having trouble bringing the job home on time, or having entanglement with multiples of lawsuits, there is no way I'd do business with him. Predictably, there wouldn't be any money in it, even if I needed the work. And I could quite likely lose my ass.

@CatherineofAragon 

Silver Pines

  • Guest
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2016, 10:37:42 pm »
@roamer_1, that was an interesting post.

Quote
A good general contractor that does good work, hits his marks on timing, and pays his bills, very quickly develops his 'crew' from good and capable subcontractors. Once he finds good guys that work well together, he just starts feeding the pig.
He won't look for bids, and he won't change anything up, because when a crew of subs know each other, and interact with each other, the jobs are basically on auto-pilot. That's where the magic is, and that's where the money is for everyone.

It's a team sport - and when he goes sideways on a job, his subs will break their asses putting it right again. And he always rewards that loyalty, one way or another.

This makes perfect sense.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,735
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2016, 10:41:38 pm »
...then invited contractors to bid on future work after making that claim.
If their work had really been substandard, why would he offer future work to them?

Riiiight. eyeball to eyeball, the way that works is: "Look, I'm out of money, and I need everyone to stretch to bring this one home... If I pay you all you're owed, I won't be able to pay the trim guy and the sheet-rocker. Tier kids will go hungry... I'm going to need you to take a hit for me, but I'll make it up with you on the next one."

 **nononono*

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,678
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2016, 11:02:40 pm »
Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.
The general contractor signed off on the cabinetmaker's work. Trump bought out the General Contractor's interest, then when it came time to pay the subcontractor, said the work was not up to snuff. That doesn't raise a flag with you?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,361
Re: The Small Business Owners Trump Never Paid In Full
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2016, 12:15:28 am »
t
Shrug, lots of contractors do shady work.

He said, she said.

Usually, on most jobs particularly of the magnitude of Trump's various projects, there is bound to be at least one contractor or subcontractor who doesn't perform to the standards of the contract.   But we are talking hundreds of contractors and suppliers here.   I doubt they all performed poorly.  Smells l Ike a pattern of fraud. 

 http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/