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Offline sinkspur

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It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« on: September 16, 2016, 12:44:41 am »
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/15/its-all-fun-and-games-until-someone-unleashes-death-squads-donald-trump-duterte-philippines/

It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads

Anyone wondering how the bare-knuckle populism of Donald Trump’s campaign would translate to office should take a look at the Philippines.

BY MAX BOOTSEPTEMBER 15, 2016

Listening to Donald Trump’s outlandish pronouncements, it’s all too easy to think: “He’ll never do that once in office. He’ll be restrained by wise advisors and act much more thoughtfully as president than he does as a presidential candidate.” Maybe so, but recent events in the Philippines demonstrate the dangers of voting into office an ignorant demagogue with a big mouth.

The new president of the Philippines, Rodrigo “Rody” Duterte, caught the attention of Americans recently by referring to President Barack Obama as the “son of a whore,” but, in the greater context, that is the least of his sins. There is a reason he is being called “Duterte Harry” and the “Trump of the Philippines” — and those monikers are not intended as compliments. Duterte is showing just what bare-knuckle populism looks like in action, and it’s not a pretty picture.
 
A few lowlights:

1) Taking advantage of the Philippine people’s understandable concern about a high crime rate, Duterte has unleashed a wave of violence against anyone suspected of being a criminal. During his campaign, he promised to kill so many outlaws that the “fish will grow fat” in Manila Bay from feasting on the remains. So far, more than 1,800 people have been killed by police and vigilantes since he came into office. No trial, no evidence: just death. Human-rights advocates are aghast, and understandably so. (It was in reaction to a journalist’s question about what he would say to Obama if the American president criticized his human-rights record that Duterte uttered his witty “son of a whore” comeback.)

Horrifying cases of misconduct are coming to light — for example, the execution of two impoverished Manila residents, Renato and Jaypee Bertes, a father and son who worked odd jobs and smoked shabu, a cheap form of methamphetamine. They were arrested by police, beaten, and shot to death. “The police said the two had tried to escape by seizing an officer’s gun,” the New York Times reported. “But a forensic examination found that the men had been incapacitated by the beatings before they were shot; Jaypee Bertes had a broken right arm.”

And just this week a self-confessed assassin testified before the Philippine Senate that he was a member of a death squad that Duterte, when he was mayor of Davao, used to kill not only “drug dealers, rapists, [purse] snatchers” but also political opponents. Some of the victims were allegedly disemboweled and dumped at sea; at least one was fed to crocodiles. In the past, Duterte has both admitted and denied running a death squad.

2) Duterte publicly accused scores of Philippine officials and military officers of involvement in the drug trade without revealing any evidence. He gave them 24 hours to surrender or be “hunted down.”

“Due process has nothing to do with my mouth,” he said. “There are no proceedings here, no lawyers.”

3) Duterte has justified the killing of journalists by saying, “Just because you’re a journalist you are not exempted from assassination if you’re a son of a bitch.”Duterte has justified the killing of journalists by saying, “Just because you’re a journalist you are not exempted from assassination if you’re a son of a bitch.”

4) Duterte has announced plans to move the remains of Ferdinand Marcos, the country’s late dictator, to the Cemetery of Heroes, despite copious evidence that Marcos was guilty of egregious misconduct while in office and that he had faked his World War II service record. The move to enshrine this brutal and corrupt ruler has triggered protests from many Filipinos, including victims of torture and imprisonment during the Marcos era. A close friend of the late dictator’s son, Ferdinand Marcos Jr., Duterte has often expressed admiration for Marcos senior, calling him “the brightest among the past presidents.” Many believe that Duterte hopes to emulate Marcos, who also took power vowing to crack down on crime.

5) Duterte has called for the United States to remove its remaining Special Forces from the southern Philippines, where they have been training the Philippine armed forces in the battle against Islamist terrorists. He has said the Philippine navy will no longer cooperate with the U.S. Navy in joint patrols in the South China Sea. In other words, he will make no attempt to enforce the judgment of an international tribunal in The Hague, in a case brought by the Philippines, that China is illegally claiming sovereignty over waters that are in the Philippines’s exclusive economic zone. This comes less than two months after Duterte claimed he would ride a jet ski to plant the Philippine flag on the Spratly Islands. He now appears intent on appeasing China, which represents the biggest security threat to his country, while turning his back on the United States, the Philippines’s oldest ally. “I do not like the Americans,” he has admitted.

In a stunning strategic reversal, Duterte says he will seek arms from China and Russia, rather than from the United States, thus turning his back on one of the major sources of funding for the threadbare Philippine military. According to the Rand Corp., the United States provided $441 million in security funding to the Philippines from 2002 to 2013. That security relationship has benefited both countries, but whether it will continue under Duterte is at least an open question.

6) Duterte has demanded that the United States apologize for the Bud Dajo “massacre” in 1906, which his spokesman has ludicrously likened to the Holocaust.

The Battle of Bud Dajo was part of the larger American war against Moro extremists, as Philippine Muslims were then known. Hundreds of Moros, including women and children, died in this extinct volcano. Whether U.S. forces were guilty of war crimes remains a subject of dispute. Gen. Leonard Wood, the U.S. commander, claimed that the Moros fanatically resisted his troops, that even women fought, and that children were used as human shields. Even if U.S. troops massacred the Moros, it is pretty rich for Duterte to demand an apology for an extra-judicial killing carried out more than a century ago while he is carrying out a rampage of extra-judicial killings of his own.

Duterte also refuses to acknowledge that, by the standards of the day, American colonial rule was fairly benign. Manual Quezon, who had fought against the Americans before becoming president of the Philippine Commonwealth in 1935, famously complained of the difficulty of rousing a nationalist revolt against U.S. rule: “Damn the Americans! Why don’t they tyrannize us more?” If Duterte is going to demand that the United States apologize for a century-old massacre, will he thank the United States for vastly improving education, transportation, sanitation, and other services in the Philippines — and for liberating that country from Japanese occupation?

Duterte’s presidency is a tragedy for the long-suffering people of the Philippines. A nation of hardworking English-speakers that was one of the first democracies in Asia, thanks to America’s liberal imperialism, should be doing far better economically than it is. (Per capita GDP, $2,886, is lower than Swaziland and Guatemala.) There are many reasons for its deficiencies, but a big part of the explanation lies in terrible leadership.

In the postwar era, the Philippines has had only one great leader — Ramon Magsaysay, who tragically died in an airplane crash in 1957. For the most part, the archipelago has been ruled by corrupt and abusive presidents, the worst being Marcos, who was in office from 1965 to 1986. Of the last three presidents, two — Joseph Estrada and Gloria Macapagal Arroyo — were accused of corruption. Estrada was impeached, ousted from office in “people power” demonstrations, and sentenced to life in prison before being pardoned by Arroyo, his former vice president. After leaving office, Arroyo had been under detention in a Manila hospital since 2012 before finally having the charges against her thrown out by the Philippine Supreme Court in July. The reformist and relatively honest presidency of Benigno Aquino III, Arroyo’s successor, was a welcome exception to this trend, but now the Philippines is worse off than ever under Duterte’s erratic and violent rule.

The fate of the Philippines should make us realize how high the stakes are in our own election. America may seem far more stable than the Philippines, and it is, but we would be in for profound and disturbing changes if we elect the Rodrigo Duterte of America. Donald Trump is a demagogue who shares Duterte’s vulgarity, his ignorance, his admiration of dictators, his contempt for liberal democratic norms, and his tendency to flip-flop on the issues.

But Trump has much grander aspirations. Duterte is in charge of a poor country with scarcely any military power. Although Duterte can damage the efforts of China’s neighbors to contain Beijing’s expansionism, most of the harm he is inflicting is on his own citizens. If Trump were to win the presidency, by contrast, he would be in charge of the most powerful nation in the world, with thousands of nuclear weapons at his command. He needs to be taken seriously when he threatens, inter alia, to rip up free-trade agreements, impose costly tariffs, build a wall on the Mexico border, deport 11 million undocumented immigrants, abandon NATO, pull U.S. troops out of countries such as South Korea and Japan, recognize Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea, and generally turn his back on decades of American international leadership. The example of rowdy “Rody” Duterte — along with countless others, from Juan Perón to Benito Mussolini —suggests that demagogues have a disturbing tendency to act in office much as they said they would do on the campaign trail, no matter how unhinged their ideas may appear to rational observers.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Fantom

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2016, 12:55:52 am »


Over on the freeper board, they are unrestrained in glee about destroying any  who dared not fall on knee to Herr trump.

Even in this forum.. the smell of fascism wafts most strongly.

Maybe that is the smell of Trumpism I detect.
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning, they want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters.

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HonestJohn

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2016, 02:07:38 am »
Good article.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2016, 02:13:40 am »
I would point out that he isn't the first populist leftist to take that approach in history. And he will not be the last.

The BLAME however falls 1 0 0 % on those that put them in power to begin with. Whether in Germany, the far east, or here. There is no one else who was, is or ever will be responsible. Period. One man does not personally go door to door and take that power from a country. The people of the country GIVE IT TO HIM.

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2016, 02:14:16 am »

Over on the freeper board, they are unrestrained in glee about destroying any  who dared not fall on knee to Herr trump.

Even in this forum.. the smell of fascism wafts most strongly.

Maybe that is the smell of Trumpism I detect.

Just common every day liberalism.

Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2016, 02:45:58 am »
I would point out that he isn't the first populist leftist to take that approach in history. And he will not be the last.

The BLAME however falls 1 0 0 % on those that put them in power to begin with. Whether in Germany, the far east, or here. There is no one else who was, is or ever will be responsible. Period. One man does not personally go door to door and take that power from a country. The people of the country GIVE IT TO HIM.

Yup. Hitlers are born and die every day without notice. Its the morons who put them in power who are dangerous. (Fortunately they pretty much always pay a high price)

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2016, 02:49:47 am »
Get your facts straight Max; it's already rumored one candidate has death squads.

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2016, 02:51:18 am »

Over on the freeper board, they are unrestrained in glee about destroying any  who dared not fall on knee to Herr trump.

Even in this forum.. the smell of fascism wafts most strongly.

Maybe that is the smell of Trumpism I detect.

No, Trump is more like Reagan, like Lincoln and like Churchill;

Perhaps, the smell of hate is easy to detect in this forum. Must be the establishment or Never-Trumps, fake conservatives, fake Republicans or whomever.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 02:53:08 am by TomSea »

Offline Norm Lenhart

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2016, 02:59:03 am »
Yup. Hitlers are born and die every day without notice. Its the morons who put them in power who are dangerous. (Fortunately they pretty much always pay a high price)

They always have and always will. Oh well. I won't so much as lift a finger to help them when their liberal turns on them. I will, however, remind them that their actions led to their consequence.Whats that saying another poster here uses often? "You can avoid reality, but you can't avoid the consequences of reality" or something to that effect.

We are just as doomed as they are of course, thanks to their leftist actions. But at least we will go to whatever end the left has in store knowing full well we were on the right, and by 'right' I mean 'correct' as well as political, side of things. Which is better than what they will get. They'll KNOW they did it to themselves. And KNOW history will remember them accordingly.

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2016, 03:19:08 am »
Get your facts straight Max; it's already rumored one candidate has death squads.

Your tagline tells fans of Buckley a great deal.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 03:19:38 am by HonestJohn »

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2016, 03:22:23 am »
Your tagline tells fans of Buckley a great deal.

Great.

For which President was Buckley Communications Director?

For which 3 presidents was Buckley a Senior Advisor?

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2016, 03:26:55 am »
William Buckley, well, if one is being critical:

Quote
Views on HIV/AIDS

In an op-ed piece in The New York Times on March 18, 1986, Buckley addressed the AIDS epidemic. Calling it "a fact" that AIDS is "the special curse of the homosexual," Buckley argued that people infected with the disease could only marry if they agreed to sterilization and that universal testing—led by insurance companies, not the government—should be mandatory. Most controversially of all, he wrote: "Everyone detected with AIDS should be tattooed in the upper forearm, to protect common-needle users, and on the buttocks, to prevent the victimization of other homosexuals."[99] The piece led to much criticism; some gay activists advocated boycotting Patricia Buckley's fund-raising efforts for AIDS. William Buckley later back-tracked from the piece, but in 2004 he told The New York Times Magazine, "If the protocol had been accepted, many who caught the infection unguardedly would be alive. Probably over a million." [100]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley_Jr.#Views_on_HIV.2FAIDS

Buckley certainly is welcome to his views but some of the politically correct may not like this.

And Segregation?

Those were different times, even JFK had some mixed feelings on that.

« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 03:30:13 am by TomSea »

Online DB

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2016, 03:29:57 am »
William Buckley, well, if one is being critical:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley_Jr.#Views_on_HIV.2FAIDS

Buckley certainly is welcome to his views but some of the politically correct may not like this.

Want to quote what Buckley had to say about Trump? He was right.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2016, 03:39:08 am »

Over on the freeper board, they are unrestrained in glee about destroying any  who dared not fall on knee to Herr trump.

Even in this forum.. the smell of fascism wafts most strongly.

Maybe that is the smell of Trumpism I detect.
IIRC, there were a couple of FReepers who retired to the Philippines. I wonder how they are doing in all this?

I guess the part which still amazes me is the way Trump people have maligned and even threatened those past and present GOP voters who won't support him. I haven't heard such threats for Hillary supporters yet.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2016, 03:44:35 am »
No, Trump is more like Reagan, like Lincoln and like Churchill;

Perhaps, the smell of hate is easy to detect in this forum. Must be the establishment or Never-Trumps, fake conservatives, fake Republicans or whomever.
About the only thing I purt'near hate is some sanctimonious idiot trying to tell me I hate something. That's even more annoying than tying history into Gordian knots to malign great men to try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear or bring a dull turd to a high shine. I must presume that is the only reason you do it.

You should recognize by now, you aren't exactly winning hearts and minds, there, peaches.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2016, 03:54:00 am »
Now I'm starting to wonder if HonestJohn meant William F. Buckley:

Quote
In his 1997 book Nearer, My God, he condemned what he viewed as "the Supreme Court's war against religion in the public school," and argued that Christian faith was being replaced by "another God ... multiculturalism."[33]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_F._Buckley_Jr.#Religious_views

Oh, we can't have that? We need diversity! Tsk, Tsk.  :nono:  That above sounds almost like Patrick Buchanan.

Some folks don't really seem to have a formula for what they believe in, just an axe to grind with a Presidential Candidate whom millions of persons want to elect President; but those millions are denigrated to the lowest.

Let alone, Carter and whomever else, some immigrants into the country were blocked in the past, they were under Jimmy Carter.

Yet, reading this forum, it seems one of the cornerstones of dislike of Trump is because he wants to keep unwanted elements out of the US. Somehow this is wrong though, Constitutionally, as we all know, some immigrants were blocked in the past.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 03:57:27 am by TomSea »

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2016, 04:19:35 am »
Now I'm starting to wonder if HonestJohn meant William F. Buckley:

Oh, we can't have that? We need diversity! Tsk, Tsk.  :nono:  That above sounds almost like Patrick Buchanan.

Some folks don't really seem to have a formula for what they believe in, just an axe to grind with a Presidential Candidate whom millions of persons want to elect President; but those millions are denigrated to the lowest.

Let alone, Carter and whomever else, some immigrants into the country were blocked in the past, they were under Jimmy Carter.

Yet, reading this forum, it seems one of the cornerstones of dislike of Trump is because he wants to keep unwanted elements out of the US. Somehow this  wrong though, Constitutionally, as we all know, some immigrants were blocked in the past.

Want to have more fun? Go look up what Buckley had to say about Buchanan you so carelessly compared him to.


Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2016, 04:30:24 am »
http://m.jpost.com/Opinion/Columnists/In-the-Diaspora-William-F-Buckley-and-the-Jews#article=0QUM2RDQxMkI4NTQyMTY3RkQ2NTkyQUMwMzA4QzlBODQ=

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/124256/pat-buchanan-anti-semite-ben-shapiro

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0308/tobin030508.php3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#Antisemitism_and_Holocaust_denial
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Buchanan#VDARE

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1977090.In_Search_of_Anti_Semitism

---

Buchanon was unceremoniously made unwelcome in the GOP thanks to the efforts of Buckley.  That you espouse Buchanon's views tells the world quite a bit about you.

Fine, that you attack the messenger says a lot about you!

It's a book and you are attacking an individual so so what. We have the Lutheran Religion and Martin Luther made some statements. Your view would paint everyone who is a Lutheran with some broad brush and negativity.

Attack the message and not the messenger, Luther spoke, many think he was right and the Lutherans do much good in the world. So, La-De-Da with all of your race card playing and only an ability to attack others.

Your attacks fall flat, period. 

And no, I don't believe that Buchanan was bucked by the Republican party; Buckley can say whatever he wants, maybe he had a personal grudge, according to what I posted above, in Buckley, you are quoting a segregationist and possible homophobe.

All you can do is play some kind of game to accuse others of prejudice.




Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2016, 04:34:14 am »
Luther in fact, started the "Reformation", so using HJ's logic, not only should the messenger be attacked but that should be parlayed to the millions and millions of Christians who are not in communion with Rome. If you get my drift.

HJ uses a book and then an individual to grind his axe about prejudice and racism. Unbelievable. You can't prove the book wrong, the message wrong, so here we go down rabbit holes.

Among conservatives in the US and not the Never Trumpers here, I'm sure Buchanan just comes off fine, he's published in many respected magazines such as Human Events and I don't know all of the others.

Honest John's guilt by association and attacks on individuals and thought crimes are weak.

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2016, 04:36:18 am »
Pat Buchanan is really the grand daddy of the renegade movement, he ran for President; and that is good.

Haters come up with some reasons to dislike him.

What about Non-Interventionism? What about America First?

Attack the message not the messenger. This is not even worth dealing with.

Buchanan is extremely on record for being against the 2nd Iraq War; and that Neo-Cons had swayed Bush to go into that war whereas he may not have.

HonestJohn

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2016, 04:36:24 am »
Fine, that you attack the messenger says a lot about you!

It's a book and you are attacking an individual so so what. We have the Lutheran Religion and Martin Luther made some statements. Your view would paint everyone who is a Lutheran with some broad brush and negativity.

Attack the message and not the messenger, Luther spoke, many think he was right and the Lutherans do much good in the world. So, La-De-Da with all of your race card playing and only an ability to attack others.

Your attacks fall flat, period. 

And no, I don't believe that Buchanan was bucked by the Republican party; Buckley can say whatever he wants, maybe he had a personal grudge, according to what I posted above, in Buckley, you are quoting a segregationist and possible homophobe.

All you can do is play some kind of game to accuse others of prejudice.

All this shows is that you did not read the information in the links.  For they describe the actions and views of Buchanon.  They don't tar him for being a person... but for what he does and he tries to convince others to believe.

This is just another attempt to pile up trash to obscure the truth.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 04:37:23 am by HonestJohn »

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2016, 04:42:32 am »
Quote
Buchanon was unceremoniously made unwelcome in the GOP thanks to the efforts of Buckley.  That you espouse Buchanon's views tells the world quite a bit about you.

Oh, you're trying to shame someone. This is funny.  :silly:

That you are drawing upon a segregationist and homophobe, says a lot about you.

Let alone, saying Buchanan is bad, we might have avoided a lot of lost blood and treasure per the Iraq war. Buchanan may well have been against the 1st Iraq war; enough to not be in the good graces of the GOP at that.

So far, nothing but blowing smoke.

Offline TomSea

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2016, 04:44:02 am »
All this shows is that you did not read the information in the links.  For they describe the actions and views of Buchanon.  They don't tar him for being a person... but for what he does and he tries to convince others to believe.

This is just another attempt to pile up trash to obscure the truth.

No it's not, attack the message, who cares what your personal opinion is on the messenger. That is it if you don't like a long-winded statement.

You rely on a homophobe and segregationist for what you are saying, might as well say that says a lot about you.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: It’s All Fun and Games, Until Someone Unleashes Death Squads
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2016, 04:45:14 am »
I have no doubt that if Donny doesn't set up some sort of national "crime prevention squad" he will certainly set in motion the atmosphere for vigilantism. My issue here is that the Philippines has always had harsh punishments and ultra law and order laws. Spitting on the sidewalk would give you a long prison sentence. That's how the Marcos kept the place so clean and orderly.