Author Topic: Use of police robot to kill Dallas shooting suspect believed to be first in US history  (Read 4762 times)

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Wingnut

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Offline sneakypete

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I think at the point where he had been sniping at police they could have branded him a 'terrorist' and taken him some place and waterboarded him until the tide came in. Splattering intel all over the pavement just makes him a 'martyr to the cause' and raises the bar for ROE. A live capture (gas) would have been preferable, and if they used too much the outcome would have been the same, with a dead tango. That sucker wasn't going anywhere, so shut down the cell towers and wait him out or gas him.

NEVER underestimate the value of taking the "perp walk" in front of teebee cameras away from them. No fame,no glory,just death. It may keep a few from making that move.
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Offline sneakypete

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  Ordinarily I would agree with you....but they spent hours talking to him and got a whole lot of info already.......in fact one investigator mentioned they got out of him all they needed.....so boom!...woudn't have happened if they thought there was more to gain. Besides I think the police are like the military when it comes to someone killing one of theirs......and in this case an actual "attack" on the forces entire...this guy had two choices...surrender on their terms or die.

Hasn't the few terrorists in gun battles with police been shot too?

This was in Texas. In Texas when you kill a cop,your BEST possible future is a quick conviction followed by a quick execution. Texas doesn't screw around with mass murderers. If you get convicted and sentenced to death,they WILL kill you.
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Online Smokin Joe

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I got some questions.......

The shooter lived with his mommy and even drove 'her' vehicle to do the deed.......his sister is all about "white hatred" as well.  They found all these guns and armament in his room or basement where ever he stored them....so they knew of his Arsenal and I suspect his plans.....and I figure there are buddies of his who knew as well.....

Thus far I've not found anything relating to those associated with him.....all we hear is the investigation continues.....assuming then that would include these possible individuals???





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Let me hit both of your posts above this one, in reverse order. Police have little compassion for a cop-killer. It's a brotherhood thing, and tremendous restraint is exercised any time they bring in one of these guys alive. Every guy there is likely thinking at some level "that could have been me" and/or "that (expletive deleted) killed my brother/friend/fellow officer", so I don't expect much pity.

However, police are supposed to be constrained by the same laws they enforce. It is a disadvantage for them, granted, but one that goes with the territory. If the reason cited, that the shooter was threatening to detonate devices around town via cell phone was valid, then they had cause that any civilian would have equally--namely acting to protect lives who could not act in their own behalf--fully justifying lethal force. Given that, I can fully understand the POV that would justify taking the guy out.

Splattering the suspect so badly that DNA cannot be obtained (really?--it doesn't take much material--just a little dab'll do ya) would indicate any intel on the cell phone would be splattered, too. Unless those accounts or contacts likely present (or absent--that says something, too) had already been obtained, there is a loss of information. Sim cards and micro SD cards could be a wealth of intel. A 'burner phone' indicates something more professional, and the numbers of any devices he could use that phone to detonate would be likely stored on the phone. That could be handy for locating any devices, should they exist. As far as picking the guy's brain, some guy who is cornered and knows he is on his way out might just serve up red herring for dinner, just as a final 'eff you!' to the Man.

Yes, terrorists and others who insisted on fighting it out to the bitter end have been shot, too.

Now, to get all technical and legalistic on the issue, because at some point the suspect will be a suspect, not the confirmed shooter, we don't generally want the police to get in the habit of blowing up perpetrators.

The precedent is dangerous, and has an aftertaste of the star chamber. It is a very thin line to cross or blur that takes this from eliminating a clear and immediate threat to summary execution without due process of any kind. The heady stuff of reprisal or revenge can be contagious and habit forming. I would caution that the criteria for such an action must be very constrained and  stringently applied. This should be the rare exception, if that, and a method of last resort, rather than become the go-to solution for a problem. Issue too many hammers and a lot of things will be treated as nails.

Otherwise, why not equip police with Bradleys to hammer those pesky snipers out of their hides, with RPGs or LAWs, and Mortars for the rooftop shooter? Maybe flamethrowers for the ones who are really well barricaded? How long until we use drone strikes to stop the fleeing robbery suspects or shut down that high speed chase? It wouldn't take long for something of this nature to spiral out of control.

Obama's Private Army, indeed, only in some other hands, and with the heirs apparent (or anyone in office, anywhere, any time), that is not a palatable situation.

Power corrupts...

That said, I'm glad they got the SOB.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 03:58:40 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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>>The precedent is dangerous, and has an aftertaste of the star chamber. It is a very thin line to cross or blur that takes this from eliminating a clear and immediate threat to summary execution without due process of any kind. The heady stuff of reprisal or revenge can be contagious and habit forming. I would caution that the criteria for such an action must be very constrained and  stringently applied. This should be the rare exception, if that, and a method of last resort, rather than become the go-to solution for a problem. Issue too many hammers and a lot of things will be treated as nails.<<

I (mostly) share your concerns for the very same reasons I quoted above.

In this case,I don't care. There was no question at all about this goober being the murderer,and I see no reason at all to risk a life to try to take him in for trial when both the outcome of the trial and the death sentence at the end are not in question. Bleep him. Maybe this makes me a bad American,but this SOB had already murdered good Americans that day,and was trying to murder more before he went down.

And speaking from a strategy POV,the best think a society can do is deny these loons a stage and the spotlight to gloat about their deed while basking in the fame of being a "bad man".

Which is related to what you said about the DNA. That report was pure BS. I just went to the funeral at Arlington of a man from my unit in VN that went MIA in 1968. His bones were laying buried in the jungle from 1968 to last year,and the military had no trouble getting and matching his DNA from a few bone shards. Hell,they could have got it using swabs from the blood  on the floor and the walls,never mind the bones. I THINK they might have put out that even his DNA disappeared in the explosion as a psywar device to try to keep others ego-tripping for fame to have second thoughts. I may be wrong about the strategy,but that is what I think. The one thing we MUST deny these goobers is any sense of fame or we are going to be knee-deep in them wherever we go.

Anonymous deaths and Anonymous funerals is the way to go. No martyrs for "the cause" and no "sacred martyr gravesites" to worship at.


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Online Smokin Joe

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And speaking from a strategy POV,the best think a society can do is deny these loons a stage and the spotlight to gloat about their deed while basking in the fame of being a "bad man".

I am all for denying them 'recognition', although knowing the identity of the perp has led to people posting pics of 'mom's house' and it ain't exactly a tarpaper shack. Besides, advertise who went down, and you rattle the net, but that might get things out of view that might otherwise get caught.

Quote
Which is related to what you said about the DNA. That report was pure BS. I just went to the funeral at Arlington of a man from my unit in VN that went MIA in 1968. His bones were laying buried in the jungle from 1968 to last year,and the military had no trouble getting and matching his DNA from a few bone shards. Hell,they could have got it using swabs from the blood  on the floor and the walls,never mind the bones. I THINK they might have put out that even his DNA disappeared in the explosion as a psywar device to try to keep others ego-tripping for fame to have second thoughts. I may be wrong about the strategy,but that is what I think. The one thing we MUST deny these goobers is any sense of fame or we are going to be knee-deep in them wherever we go.

I would be okay with that concept if what you think is correct.
Quote
Anonymous deaths and Anonymous funerals is the way to go. No martyrs for "the cause" and no "sacred martyr gravesites" to worship at.


I'm okay with that idea, too, but it won't stop the normal accumulation of flowers and stuff for the 'poor, wronged fellow' --just as soon as the pressure washer HAZMAT guys are done sanitizing the site for people's protection....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

HonestJohn

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Hmmmmmmmm....
Lemmmmmeeeessssssseeeee here......

Did the robot destroy itself in the detonation?
In other words, was this normally-innocent robot turned into a "suicide robot" by the police?
If so, might this be the first instance of a suicide robot in modern policing?

How much did the robot cost, originally?
Before they taped a bomb to it?
I sense it probably was expensive. Very expensive.

Will the use of suicide robots might tend to quickly deplete the resources of the forces that choose to use them in the future....?

The robot cost roughly $10,000.

HonestJohn

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Remember the "Anarchists Cookbook"? LOTS of good info in that one.

And a couple of formulas that are slightly less than good that you will find out about at roughly the same time you and the room you are standing in dissapear.

Careful with the Anarchists Cookbook.  Some of the formulas in it are wrong and will harm the maker.

Offline montanajoe

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Absolutely, I'd go so far as to say Employee of the Year..give that guy a parking space..oh wait...umm

geronl

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"Where's the kaboom... there's supposed to be a thug-shattering.... oh there it is!"

Offline Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline sneakypete

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I'm okay with that idea, too, but it won't stop the normal accumulation of flowers and stuff for the 'poor, wronged fellow' --just as soon as the pressure washer HAZMAT guys are done sanitizing the site for people's protection....

No big deal. The flowers and worshipful followers will disappear within a few days,and within a month it will just be a parking garage again. Give the SOB a "state funeral" with all the mourners marching past awash in tears in front of the teebee cameras and weeping and wailing at the gravesite,the Rev-Runds "Rev-Runding" (recruiting for the cause) and you  have created a cultural warrior hero.

This is a video generation were all the kids grow up wanting to be a star,and using selfies to "crown" themselves. Seems like most young people today think a bowel movement is a momentous achievement in the history of mankind,and NEED it recorded for future generations to admire. Take away their shot at video immortality,and you have made an important step towards eliminating copy cats.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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No big deal. The flowers and worshipful followers will disappear within a few days,and within a month it will just be a parking garage again. Give the SOB a "state funeral" with all the mourners marching past awash in tears in front of the teebee cameras and weeping and wailing at the gravesite,the Rev-Runds "Rev-Runding" (recruiting for the cause) and you  have created a cultural warrior hero.

This is a video generation were all the kids grow up wanting to be a star,and using selfies to "crown" themselves. Seems like most young people today think a bowel movement is a momentous achievement in the history of mankind,and NEED it recorded for future generations to admire. Take away their shot at video immortality,and you have made an important step towards eliminating copy cats.
True, that. The internet makes heroes over the most ridiculous stuff, and this is a concept that could gather steam given the chance among the more militant types, and not just based on racist agitprop. Should the usual suspects or others decide to pursue the tactical avenues of approach available to the ambitious in the attention whore culture, especially if they think it will grant them fame or notoriety, they might not take the time to think the matter through to an almost inevitable conclusion, but cause considerable inconvenience in the meantime. I'm not trying to minimize the severity of the consequences for the fallen and their friends/families, just trying to avoid the chance encouragement of some wannabe.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 12:33:06 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Chieftain

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I got some questions.......

The shooter lived with his mommy and even drove 'her' vehicle to do the deed.......his sister is all about "white hatred" as well.  They found all these guns and armament in his room or basement where ever he stored them....so they knew of his Arsenal and I suspect his plans.....and I figure there are buddies of his who knew as well.....

Thus far I've not found anything relating to those associated with him.....all we hear is the investigation continues.....assuming then that would include these possible individuals???

@Smokin Joe
@sneakypete

Great questions, but should we expect the Feds to step in and squash the release of any transcript of what the POS self appointed black commando actually had to say, just like they tried to cover for the muzzie in Orlando??

After all, anything that distracts from the additional gun control meme is strictly verboten...

 :smokin:

Offline sneakypete

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Great questions, but should we expect the Feds to step in and squash the release of any transcript of what the POS self appointed black commando actually had to say, just like they tried to cover for the muzzie in Orlando??

After all, anything that distracts from the additional gun control meme is strictly verboten...

 :smokin:

Yes. You can count on it. Especially with President Chocolate in control over Justice Department head Loretta Chocolate.

Reverse racism is the rule in 21st Century America.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Hoodat

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What about this robot?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline goatprairie

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What about this robot?

That will be coming in the not too distant future. What are the bad guys going to do when an armored AND ARMED!!! robot walks in on them?

Offline sneakypete

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What about this robot?


Cracka wid a hard shell?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

HonestJohn

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What about this robot?


This one is far more agile.


Offline goatprairie

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Cracka wid a hard shell?
How did you post that image?

Online Smokin Joe

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Great questions, but should we expect the Feds to step in and squash the release of any transcript of what the POS self appointed black commando actually had to say, just like they tried to cover for the muzzie in Orlando??

After all, anything that distracts from the additional gun control meme is strictly verboten...

 :smokin:
If they (LEOs) have actionable intel and they move on it (where releasing it would make conspirators go 'dark' and fade away), then be quiet and move on it.  Don't telegraph your punches.

Otherwise, while it would be nice to have a release of that information exposing any nefarious intent to allow people to assess personal risk and take whatever measures may be warranted to defend themselves or safeguard against being in harm's way, you can bet the information will NOT be released if it puts a particular ethnicity in a less than complimentary light.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 08:23:55 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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That will be coming in the not too distant future. What are the bad guys going to do when an armored AND ARMED!!! robot walks in on them?
Trigger the IEDs...

Every measure will bring a countermeasure. Often the countermeasures in insurgency warfare are far cheaper than the equipment they destroy.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Puss-N-Boots

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The only improvement I could've thought of would've been a GoPro camera to live stream the expression on the face of the POS shooter as he realized he was about to have his miserable arse blown all over the garage.

I can only imagine his expression when he first realized the robot was not delivering a pizza...
The Constitution is not a suggestion.

Offline goatprairie

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Trigger the IEDs...

Every measure will bring a countermeasure. Often the countermeasures in insurgency warfare are far cheaper than the equipment they destroy.
The robot I have in mind won't look like the one they just used....the robots I'm thinking are coming in the future will closely resemble humans and move like them. By the time crooks realize it's a robot, it will probably be too close for them to use IEDs. And anyway, it's just a robot. If it's neutralized, no good guys get killed.

Online Smokin Joe

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The robot I have in mind won't look like the one they just used....the robots I'm thinking are coming in the future will closely resemble humans and move like them. By the time crooks realize it's a robot, it will probably be too close for them to use IEDs. And anyway, it's just a robot. If it's neutralized, no good guys get killed.
That depends on who is controlling the robots.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis