Use of police robot to kill Dallas shooting suspect believed to be first in US history

[SirLinksALot]

SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN

URL: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jul/08/police-bomb-robot-explosive-killed-suspect-dallas

by: Sam Thielman


For what experts are calling the first time in history, US police have used a robot in a show of lethal force. Early Friday morning, Dallas police used a bomb-disposal robot with an explosive device on its manipulator arm to kill a suspect after five police officers were murdered and seven others wounded.

“We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was,” Dallas police chief David Brown told reporters.

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Peter Singer, a strategist and senior fellow at the New America Foundation who writes about the technology of warfare, said he believed this was a first. “There may be some story that comes along, but I’d think I’d have heard of it,” he said.

Others concurred. “As far as I know, it appears to be the first intentional use of a lethally armed robot by the police in the United States,” said Elizabeth Joh, law professor at the University of California at Davis.

This is not the first time a robot designed with other functions in mind has been used as a weapon, but this kind of repurposing has until now been limited to the military. Singer said that in the early 2000s, a solider he interviewed repurposed a surveillance robot called a Marcbot with a bomb. These robots aren’t autonomous, Singer emphasized – the Marcbot “is like a toy truck with a sensor and camera mount they’d use to drive up to a checkpoint”. But this soldier had improvised: “They duct-taped an explosive and you can figure out the rest. You can see the parallels here.”


Bomb-disposal robots such as the one seen here have been used by the military as a weapon, according to Peter Singer of the New America Foundation, but never before by police.

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[ABX]

I found this part of the Dallas terrorism incident interesting, especially as several of the latest attacks on law enforcement have been ambush attacks.  If an ambush is suspected or if the logistics are too risky to move in even well protected officers, technology provides a solution.

[Fishrrman]

Hmmmmmmmm....
Lemmmmmeeeessssssseeeee here......

Did the robot destroy itself in the detonation?
In other words, was this normally-innocent robot turned into a "suicide robot" by the police?
If so, might this be the first instance of a suicide robot in modern policing?

How much did the robot cost, originally?
Before they taped a bomb to it?
I sense it probably was expensive. Very expensive.

Will the use of suicide robots might tend to quickly deplete the resources of the forces that choose to use them in the future....?

[Polly Ticks]

In other words, was this normally-innocent robot turned into a "suicide robot" by the police?

Did it get 70 unused circuit boards as a reward?

[NavyCanDo]

He wore body armor - and by doing so HE is the one who upped the ante on the means to stop him without endangering the lives of any more officers.

I am reminded of the North Hollywood shootout with two bank robbers up against 400 police officers. A killer in body armor is very very serious business, and I do not fault the police in anyway for ending it the way they did.

[skeeter]

The only improvement I could've thought of would've been a GoPro camera to live stream the expression on the face of the POS shooter as he realized he was about to have his miserable arse blown all over the garage.

[ABX]

[Cripplecreek]

Splodey the Killbot

[Chieftain]

He wore body armor - and by doing so HE is the one who upped the ante on the means to stop him without endangering the lives of any more officers.

I am reminded of the North Hollywood shootout with two bank robbers up against 400 police officers. A killer in body armor is very very serious business, and I do not fault the police in anyway for ending it the way they did.

Absolutely right.  Its too bad they did not have a couple of anti-personnel hand grenades handy...they had to use a chunk of C-4 which likely did the robot no good either.  If you cannot shoot the target directly, a good, hard, abrupt shock wave will do it every time.  Body armor transmits the shock to all the soft mushy parts inside, and makes 'em even mushier.

They tried talking this (AUTO-MOD DELETION) down, and he apparently had quite a bit to say, most of which served to justify blowing his ass away, literally.

The more important point in this is the reality of what one heavily armed combat sniper can accomplish in a very short time.  Imagine what a four man combat team could do, and realize that is exactly what the muzzies would love to accomplish in as many places all over America as possible. 

 

[austingirl]

He wore body armor - and by doing so HE is the one who upped the ante on the means to stop him without endangering the lives of any more officers.

I am reminded of the North Hollywood shootout with two bank robbers up against 400 police officers. A killer in body armor is very very serious business, and I do not fault the police in anyway for ending it the way they did.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Why, it's all just wonderful until some nit gets the wrong address and catches you cleaning your guns.

Better to evaluate the idea not on the basis of the good it can do, but also on the potential for evil.

Will radio controlled planes, cars, trucks, and even boats become 'bomb making materials' now? What's to keep someone from rigging a R/C chassis with a shaped charge and driving under someone's car with it, or going kamikaze on a fuel truck some time?

[sneakypete]

SOURCE: THE GUARDIAN


For what experts are calling the first time in history, US police have used a robot in a show of lethal force. Early Friday morning, Dallas police used a bomb-disposal robot with an explosive device on its manipulator arm to kill a suspect after five police officers were murdered and seven others wounded.

And I applaud their wisdom for doing so. They had the murderer cornered,they knew he was the murderer,and he had no interest in surrendering and standing trial. Removing him from the planet with a bomb beats the HELL out of risking the lives of any more cops trying to arrest him.

Smart move. Good for them!

BTW,folks,this was Texas,and the shooter,NOT "the suspect" had murdered multiple cops in cold blood. Make no mistake about it,he was going to die right then or a couple of years later while strapped down to a table. That was as sure as the sun coming up in the east tomorrow. Texas doesn't screw around when it comes to the death penalty.

[Chieftain]

Why, it's all just wonderful until some nit gets the wrong address and catches you cleaning your guns.

Better to evaluate the idea not on the basis of the good it can do, but also on the potential for evil.

Will radio controlled planes, cars, trucks, and even boats become 'bomb making materials' now? What's to keep someone from rigging a R/C chassis with a shaped charge and driving under someone's car with it, or going kamikaze on a fuel truck some time?

Nothing, other than the relative difficulty of getting your hands on enough high explosives....

That is the scary part of living in a free society, in that there will always be people who attempt to take advantage of those freedoms for evil purposes.  To be absolutely sure those things never happen, your country becomes North Korea....

Hell of a choice, huh??

 

[sneakypete]

Hmmmmmmmm....
Lemmmmmeeeessssssseeeee here......

Did the robot destroy itself in the detonation?
In other words, was this normally-innocent robot turned into a "suicide robot" by the police?
If so, might this be the first instance of a suicide robot in modern policing?

How much did the robot cost, originally?
Before they taped a bomb to it?
I sense it probably was expensive. Very expensive.

Will the use of suicide robots might tend to quickly deplete the resources of the forces that choose to use them in the future....?

I dunno how expensive the robot was. I don't even care because whatever it cost was less than the cost of the lives on anymore fathers,sons,or brothers who just happened to be wearing a badge that day.

Robots can be easily replaced if necessary. Individuals can't.

[sneakypete]

Did it get 70 unused circuit boards as a reward?

GAWD,but I hate you!

I should have thought of that.

[sneakypete]

Why, it's all just wonderful until some nit gets the wrong address and catches you cleaning your guns.


Will radio controlled planes, cars, trucks, and even boats become 'bomb making materials' now?

Not one single doubt in my mind this will happen in the Nanny State of America.

[Smokin Joe]

Nothing, other than the relative difficulty of getting your hands on enough high explosives....

That is the scary part of living in a free society, in that there will always be people who attempt to take advantage of those freedoms for evil purposes.  To be absolutely sure those things never happen, your country becomes North Korea....

Hell of a choice, huh??

 

Some of that stuff isn't so hard to make. Fellows from third world countries whip it up with supplies from hardware stores, drug stores, or even grocery stores. That isn't saying it is as good as the military grade stuff, but it has shredded plenty of jihadis and innocents around the world if used as intended. That also isn't saying there is no risk in making it, either.

I would think by now that the basics are out there, pervasively enough that both those of ill intent, preppers bent on survival, and others have long since printed out the information they need to do that and more. Some inventiveness, etc. and there could be some impressive and ingenious (and illegal!) devices out there, often within 24 hours. Possessing the knowledge, even the materials alone isn't criminal, it is assembling and using such for nefarious ends that is. And frankly, it should stay that way.

The sad part here is that the movement which allegedly seeks an end to supposedly gratuitous killings based on race either either had members who perpetrated such killings on (apparently all white) police, or had some broader based knowledge of the targets of the shooters if they did continue to march calmly down the street while the shooters were picking off police officers. Ordinarily, people would scatter first, and see who was getting shot second. (For all they knew, it could have been a couple of fed-up Bubbas from Fergusson doing the shooting.) In that case, this is a declaration of war.

[sneakypete]

Some of that stuff isn't so hard to make.

Remember the "Anarchists Cookbook"? LOTS of good info in that one.

And a couple of formulas that are slightly less than good that you will find out about at roughly the same time you and the room you are standing in dissapear.

[Smokin Joe]

Remember the "Anarchists Cookbook"? LOTS of good info in that one.

And a couple of formulas that are slightly less than good that you will find out about at roughly the same time you and the room you are standing in dissapear.

Oh, yes. I recall that one. There were those who swore it was a plot by 'the man' to eliminate ..., well you get the picture (and maybe it was!). A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Add a couple of field manuals on improvised munitions, and there are other sources. For the amateur out there, should you choose to dabble, be very careful of your sources. Some of those are just plain dangerous, some of the methods are inherently dangerous field expedients which should only be used in primitive situations when you really, really need to blow something up.

Even the pros have problems, and I knew someone who retired from his job not long after the umpteenth explosion at the nitroglycerin manufacturing facility he worked at. He had just walked around the blast barrier when the place went up behind him, taking with it a couple of his friends he'd been talking with minutes earlier.  Every safeguard was in place and these were people who knew what they were doing, so imagine the problems which await the rank amateur.

Some compounds are safer than others, some are more stable, and some break down (lose efficacy) over time. Others retain it for amazing intervals, as witnessed by the folks who found a Parrot shell on a Civil War battlefield when I was an undergrad, one dead, iirc and a couple maimed in the explosion, 100+ year old shell. Old black powder and synthetic fabrics don't mix...

[WAC]

I cracked right up when I saw that....made my night thank you!       

[WAC]

The only improvement I could've thought of would've been a GoPro camera to live stream the expression on the face of the POS shooter as he realized he was about to have his miserable arse blown all over the garage.

Do you think he knew?  I tend to doubt it as they were communicating with him all along via the robot.....I figure he likely had no clue the thing was armed ....but i find it rather a good thing that there was nothing left of him but shreddings......they said they couldn't even do a toxicolgy report with what was left.....and what a great thing for the idiots whom might consider doing a copy cat....they're going to die.

I love our military and our police officers.....but I also have a 'healthy' fear of them as well. ...you don't mess with those God's appointed..

...There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.... For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? ....Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good..... But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

[Smokin Joe]

Do you think he knew?  I tend to doubt it as they were communicating with him all along via the robot.....I figure he likely had no clue the thing was armed ....but i find it rather a good thing that there was nothing left of him but shreddings......they said they couldn't even do a toxicolgy report with what was left.....and what a great thing for the idiots whom might consider doing a copy cat....they're going to die.

I love our military and our police officers.....but I also have a 'healthy' fear of them as well. ...you don't mess with those God's appointed..

...There is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.... For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? ....Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good..... But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.

I think at the point where he had been sniping at police they could have branded him a 'terrorist' and taken him some place and waterboarded him until the tide came in. Splattering intel all over the pavement just makes him a 'martyr to the cause' and raises the bar for ROE. A live capture (gas) would have been preferable, and if they used too much the outcome would have been the same, with a dead tango. That sucker wasn't going anywhere, so shut down the cell towers and wait him out or gas him.

[WAC]

I got some questions.......

The shooter lived with his mommy and even drove 'her' vehicle to do the deed.......his sister is all about "white hatred" as well.  They found all these guns and armament in his room or basement where ever he stored them....so they knew of his Arsenal and I suspect his plans.....and I figure there are buddies of his who knew as well.....

Thus far I've not found anything relating to those associated with him.....all we hear is the investigation continues.....assuming then that would include these possible individuals???





@Smokin Joe
@sneakypete

[WAC]

I think at the point where he had been sniping at police they could have branded him a 'terrorist' and taken him some place and waterboarded him until the tide came in. Splattering intel all over the pavement just makes him a 'martyr to the cause' and raises the bar for ROE. A live capture (gas) would have been preferable, and if they used too much the outcome would have been the same, with a dead tango. That sucker wasn't going anywhere, so shut down the cell towers and wait him out or gas him.

  Ordinarily I would agree with you....but they spent hours talking to him and got a whole lot of info already.......in fact one investigator mentioned they got out of him all they needed.....so boom!...woudn't have happened if they thought there was more to gain. Besides I think the police are like the military when it comes to someone killing one of theirs......and in this case an actual "attack" on the forces entire...this guy had two choices...surrender on their terms or die.

Hasn't the few terrorists in gun battles with police been shot too?

[sneakypete]

Some compounds are safer than others, some are more stable, and some break down (lose efficacy) over time. Others retain it for amazing intervals, as witnessed by the folks who found a Parrot shell on a Civil War battlefield when I was an undergrad, one dead, iirc and a couple maimed in the explosion, 100+ year old shell. Old black powder and synthetic fabrics don't mix...

@Smokin Joe

Ok,here is my annual public service message. Do NOT screw around with black powder to try to make a bomb. It is very dangerous and unstable stuff. The static electricity in a lightening storm can set it off. 

Or it might now go off if you try to detonate it. Don't even think about trying to make it,although I did make some when I was about 8 years old,just to see if I could. Cracked the sidewalk in front of our house when I set it off. My parents were NOT amused at having to pay for it.

They were ok with me making 22 caliber zip guns out of car antennas,blocks of wood,a nail,and old bicycle innner tubes,but no more bombs.

The stuff you can make with instructions you can find in a public library are amazing