Author Topic: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth  (Read 7980 times)

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Online sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2019, 01:13:38 am »


Hmmm,seems like I had nothing to say,huh?

I hate it when that happens.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2019, 05:13:57 am »
The whole "the founders didn't know about certain weapons" argument is ridiculous because the founders didn't know about any modern thing that was only available decades or centuries later.  It's a stupid argument. 
The founders didn't know about certain weapons? So what, what was available then and what is available now was not the intent of the founders.
The founders meant that private citizens should be armed. And they certainly didn't mean for their weapons to be collected by a central authority after an insurrection was concluded.
 And even the part about there having to be a militia is not exclusive of private citizens keeping their firearms  for other uses. It's just the gun grabbers intent to put things in the constitution that aren't there.
If the founders had intended that private citizens could not keep firearms on their person, they would have put it in writing.
They never did and, of course, would have thought it crazy to believe private citizens could not keep firearms at home or on their person.
They knew that all firearms secured in central locations could be easily taken by an oppressive authority thereby totally undermining the idea of private citizens rebelling against an oppressive government.
Members of the Maryland Militia found this out when the State was invaded by Pennsylvania and Massachusetts Militias, sparking the Pratt Street Riots, and the first fatalities of the Civil War. Arms assembled in the armories were not recovered. .
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2019, 05:23:15 am »
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2019, 08:43:59 am »
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.
Worth repeating
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
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Offline goatprairie

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2019, 10:20:11 am »
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.
Excellent point. I think the leftists aren't quite that stupid. They're being disingenuous. Obviously, The Founders meant for the citizenry to be properly armed with the weapons available at the time. 
It's patently ludicrous to think that if the revolution had occurred one hundred years later or more, The Founders wouldn't have mentioned the repeating rifles, six guns, gatling guns available by that time.
But again, the gun grabbers are simply being disingenuous. They're really not quite that dumb. Or maybe they are.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2019, 10:23:18 am »
Excellent point. I think the leftists aren't quite that stupid. They're being disingenuous. Obviously, The Founders meant for the citizenry to be properly armed with the weapons available at the time. 
It's patently ludicrous to think that if the revolution had occurred one hundred years later or more, The Founders wouldn't have mentioned the repeating rifles, six guns, gatling guns available by that time.
But again, the gun grabbers are simply being disingenuous. They're really not quite that dumb. Or maybe they are.
They may not be that dumb, but they hope to be playing to an audience that is, especially after decades of propaganda and nonsense.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Bill Cipher

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2019, 10:53:35 am »
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.

And the Fourth does not apply to computers.

Online sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2019, 01:08:58 pm »

But again, the gun grabbers are simply being disingenuous. They're really not quite that dumb. Or maybe they are.

@goatprarie

It's not that they are dumb so much as it is they have the reasoning ability of a child. If they WANT something to be true,they think that is the same thing AS being true.

If you refuse to give them what they want,they have tantrums like a 6 year old.

Since the vast majority of the Dim leadership come from wealthy families that gave them anything they wanted all their lives,they honestly can't understand why you won't give them "this" when they want it. If you won't.it must be because you are selfish,a racist,a homophobe,etc,etc,etc.

Little do most of these adult children realize that the instant they are no longer useful is the same instant their leftist masters decide they would be most useful as dog food. No way in HELL are they going to be able to get away with that crap once "the revolution comes".
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2019, 02:32:29 pm »
They may not be that dumb, but they hope to be playing to an audience that is, especially after decades of propaganda and nonsense.

If the crap that was being spewed on Twitter this weekend is any indication...they ARE that dumb...and their audiences are a couple levels of stupid below them.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2019, 11:35:04 pm »
The vast majority of people who believe that the government has the right to regulate gun ownership by passing new laws ... have a poor understanding of our Constitution!

Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!

What the Constitution does do is identify what powers the people grant to the government.

This is the whole purpose of the Constitution - to tell the government what it can and cannot do, our Constitution is a limit on government.

That is why Marxists, Socialist, Progressive Democrats, et al. have such a disdain for our Constitution .. it is a limitation on Government not a limitation on We The People.

Read the Second Amendment closely.
Nowhere does it state that the people have a right to bear arms but rather that the government cannot infringe on that right.

The framers of our Constitution believed that our right to bear arms is a natural right , not a right to be given to us by government.


Amendment II

Quote
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

That’s it, that is the whole 2nd Amendment.
Where does it say that the government gives us any right?
It doesn’t, it only says that the government cannot infringe on this right.

And when the often used argument arises that we will all be safer if we pass (another) gun law or how the 2nd only applied to  the militia, I am reminded on how our nations leading members at the time would respond to that.
(Pay particular attention to what Noah Webster had to say)

Quote
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”

Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776


Quote
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery".

Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787


Put another way: I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude..

Quote
“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”

Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787


Quote
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”

Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788


There are a ton more references that can be found but I'll close with the following ...


Quote
Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals- that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government- that it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen’s protection against the government.— Ayn Rand
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 07:20:09 pm by mrclose »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2019, 12:07:37 am »
I think that this is even more relevant today than when I first posted it!

At least, at that time a good majority of true conservatives knew and believed what the "Right To Bear Arms" meant!

With the NRA and Trump approving of the ban on 'bump stocks' and the heated rhetoric coming from both sides after these mass murders ..I fear that the ever so slow erosion of the second amendment will now go into overdrive!

I actually saw some idiot on Twitter trying to use the “The 2nd Amendment was written for Muskets “ BS today.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2019, 12:53:09 am »
I actually saw some idiot on Twitter trying to use the “The 2nd Amendment was written for Muskets “ BS today.

@txradioguy

The country is on it's way out as a Constitutional Republic because the people are an ignorant mass!

Even within my own family when I bring up the fact that all gun laws are unconstitutional, they look at me like I'm nuts!

They'll argue that each state has a right ... blah, blah, blah and I'll say, No, a state doesn't have the right to violate the constitution either!

More ignorant stares. **nononono*

"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
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Bill Cipher

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2019, 01:22:34 am »
@txradioguy

The country is on it's way out as a Constitutional Republic because the people are an ignorant mass!

Even within my own family when I bring up the fact that all gun laws are unconstitutional, they look at me like I'm nuts!

They'll argue that each state has a right ... blah, blah, blah and I'll say, No, a state doesn't have the right to violate the constitution either!

More ignorant stares. **nononono*



Not all gun laws are unconstitutional. 

Online sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2019, 02:16:59 am »
The vast majority of people who believe that the government has the right to regulate gun ownership by passing new laws ... have a poor understanding of our Constitution!

Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!


@mrclose

The simple way to explain it is that the Bill of Rights RECOGNIZES AN EXISTING RIGHT WE ALL HAVE BY VIRTUE OF BEING BORN IN AMERICA.

Since these rights are BIRTHRIGHTS,no government has the legal authority to restrict them or deny them to American citizens unless there are special circumstances proven in a court of law for EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE.
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2019, 12:04:56 pm »
Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!

What the Constitution does do is identify what powers the people grant to the government.
Then why are we the only country that has that right? Why don't we just rip up the darn Constitution and throw it on a funeral pyre... we don't need it, obviously!
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2019, 01:37:00 pm »
Then why are we the only country that has that right? Why don't we just rip up the darn Constitution and throw it on a funeral pyre... we don't need it, obviously!
The Constitution delineates the narrow powers granted by the People to Government, and retains the rest to the People and the States. The 2nd Amendment, and others in the Bill of Rights as well exist to remind Government that these are Our Rights, and to be left alone. No other country quite has that level of proscription on Government Power, and the Rights of their people have been freely usurped by their governments.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2019, 02:00:01 pm »
The Constitution delineates the narrow powers granted by the People to Government, and retains the rest to the People and the States. The 2nd Amendment, and others in the Bill of Rights as well exist to remind Government that these are Our Rights, and to be left alone. No other country quite has that level of proscription on Government Power, and the Rights of their people have been freely usurped by their governments.

It's also why Liberals hate...as Obama said our "fundamentally flawed" Constitution.  It tell them more of what they can't do than what they can do.

The Libs say it's full of "negative Liberties"
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline goatprairie

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2019, 02:02:18 pm »
Without a written constitution that carefully stipulates the natural rights of citizens and states what gov. cannot do,  some governments, like Great Britain's, without written constitutions can interpret their laws in nefarious ways.
They try to do it anyway with our constitution, but when it's written down, it's a lot harder for scoundrels to ignore it or misinterpret it for their own selfish/evil reasons.

Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2019, 06:26:01 pm »
@mrclose

The simple way to explain it is that the Bill of Rights RECOGNIZES AN EXISTING RIGHT WE ALL HAVE BY VIRTUE OF BEING BORN IN AMERICA.

Since these rights are BIRTHRIGHTS,no government has the legal authority to restrict them or deny them to American citizens unless there are special circumstances proven in a court of law for EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE.

@sneakypete

Which is where we run into a problem.

Every time there is a "mass shooting", it gives the gun grabbers another opportunity to write new Unconstitutional Laws and another chance to take away the law abiding citizen's right to Self protection!

These laws will only apply to people who are law abiding, who have never hurt or killed anyone!
Criminals don't follow laws!

When a mass shooting or a crime of any kind is committed ... That crime should be prosecuted in the courts!

Congress has no right to create laws to punish the law abiding citizen for the actions of another!

A crime was committed by a person so prosecute the crime and the person who committed it!

Punishing the law abiding will not prevent future crimes!

We have surrendered our 'Constitutional Rights'  to the whims of whomever holds the reigns of power at the moment and to Judges who in many cases are nothing more than .. Black Robed Tyrants!
(As Mark Levin explains in his book, "Men In Black." )

Abortion "Rights" would be just one example.

« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 06:41:32 pm by mrclose »
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Offline thackney

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2019, 06:29:57 pm »
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2019, 06:49:21 pm »


Good One!

Unfortunately, the people have already surrendered!
"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
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Offline goatprairie

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2019, 07:36:42 pm »

There's a tee shirt you can buy out west that shows a photo of four armed Indians with the words:

"Homeland Security: fighting terrorism since 1492"

Online sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #47 on: August 06, 2019, 11:19:40 pm »
@sneakypete

Quote
Which is where we run into a problem.

Every time there is a "mass shooting", it gives the gun grabbers another opportunity to write new Unconstitutional Laws and another chance to take away the law abiding citizen's right to Self protection!

Not really. Yes,they are doing it in many cities and states,but the laws they are passing are not legal. Which is why they will be VERY careful to arrest anyone with political connections or enough wealth and influence to take them to court.

In short,they get away with it because we LET them get away with it.



Quote
These laws will only apply to people who are law abiding, who have never hurt or killed anyone!
Criminals don't follow laws!

Seems so simple even the typical Dim could understand it,doesn't it?

Quote
We have surrendered our 'Constitutional Rights'  to the whims of whomever holds the reigns of power at the moment and to Judges who in many cases are nothing more than .. Black Robed Tyrants!
(As Mark Levin explains in his book, "Men In Black." )

He,right,too.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2020, 02:06:41 pm »
I know that this is a rather old post but I hate dead links when I peruse someone else's old posts!

Addy change: https://mrclose.neocities.org/Musket%20Myth.html
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