Author Topic: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth  (Read 7981 times)

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Offline mrclose

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The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth
« on: July 09, 2016, 07:32:22 am »
My layout (in this post) of the page disappeared but the link works fine.
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The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth
Quote

(**snip**)

The intent of the second Amendment was to insure that every able-bodied man in America would be armed in the event that the federal government or America’s own standing army turned on its people.

Our founders were keenly aware that armament would continue to improve and become more efficient and thus ... the 2nd Amendment has Shall Not Be Infringed as it's foundation.

 
It wasn't just the government that possessed sophisticated arms ... the Common Folk of the era owned what today's gun grabbers would call militarized weapons.

By the time the 2nd amendment was adopted, (December 15, 1791) assault weapons already existed.


https://mrclose.neocities.org/Musket%20Myth.html
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 01:31:15 pm by mrclose »
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Offline Doug Loss

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2016, 11:33:06 am »
Don't forget that a large portion of the cannons (artillery) used by the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War were on loan from private owners...

If the Founders were around today, they wouldn't be whining about citizens having "assault" weapons, they'd be upset that the maintenance costs of tanks, fighter jets, and cruisers were too high for individual citizens or even groups to own and use them.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 11:34:57 am by Doug Loss »
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Offline goatprairie

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2016, 12:02:17 pm »
The whole "the founders didn't know about certain weapons" argument is ridiculous because the founders didn't know about any modern thing that was only available decades or centuries later.  It's a stupid argument. 
The founders didn't know about certain weapons? So what, what was available then and what is available now was not the intent of the founders.
The founders meant that private citizens should be armed. And they certainly didn't mean for their weapons to be collected by a central authority after an insurrection was concluded.
 And even the part about there having to be a militia is not exclusive of private citizens keeping their firearms  for other uses. It's just the gun grabbers intent to put things in the constitution that aren't there.
If the founders had intended that private citizens could not keep firearms on their person, they would have put it in writing.
They never did and, of course, would have thought it crazy to believe private citizens could not keep firearms at home or on their person.
They knew that all firearms secured in central locations could be easily taken by an oppressive authority thereby totally undermining the idea of private citizens rebelling against an oppressive government.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 12:03:50 pm by goatprairie »

Offline bolobaby

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How to lose credibility while posting:
1. Trump is never wrong.
2. Default to the most puerile emoticon you can find. This is especially useful when you can't win an argument on merits.
3. Be falsely ingratiating, completely but politely dismissive without talking to the points, and bring up Hillary whenever the conversation is really about conservatism.
4. When all else fails, remember rule #1 and #2. Emoticons are like the poor man's tweet!

Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2016, 04:59:29 pm »
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Offline rodamala

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 05:15:22 pm »
Happiness is living 2 properties away from a guy that on Independence Day was blowing off full sticks of dynamite and emptying 30 round magazines from an automatic rifle... ALL. DAY. LONG.

Bliss would be being that guy.

rangerrebew

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2016, 06:14:11 pm »
It seems to me if the framers didn't want people to have military grade weapons, they would have made that known as part of the 2nd Amendment.

Offline EC

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2016, 06:17:47 pm »
Pretty sure that at the time of writing, there were no such thing as hobby grade guns. They were all military grade.
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2016, 04:33:26 am »
Most of the patriots that fought against British rule brought their own fire arms to the fight or appropriated them from the British.  The founders believed that to have "well organized militias" the people would have to have their own arms to protect from the tyranny of another out of control government.
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Offline Crazieman

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2016, 08:15:10 am »
Private citizens owned cannons.

The Constitution refers to Letters of Marque.  Private warships.

Read properly, Joe Schmoe, if he can afford it, can have an Abrams in his garage.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 08:15:47 am by Crazieman »
Mixed-race Mutt.
Your racist accusations are invalid.

Start thinking Constitutionally and stop thinking in groups.

geronl

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2016, 08:45:37 am »
All I want for Christmas...


rangerrebew

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2016, 02:08:05 pm »
Most of the patriots that fought against British rule brought their own fire arms to the fight or appropriated them from the British.  The founders believed that to have "well organized militias" the people would have to have their own arms to protect from the tyranny of another out of control government.

Interesting! People would be better able to aim and shoot their own weapons rather the ones furnished by someone else which still would apply.  This all makes more and more sense.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 02:08:53 pm by rangerrebew »

Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2016, 12:18:26 am »
Private citizens owned cannons.

The Constitution refers to Letters of Marque.  Private warships.

Read properly, Joe Schmoe, if he can afford it, can have an Abrams in his garage.

Quote
This armored tank is fully functional,” the ArmsList classified states. “The turret is fully operational [...] The main gun is registered as a Destructive Device with the ATF and comes with 10 projectiles. More projectiles are available.







But is it legal? And can anybody just up and buy something with the insane firepower of a tank or grenade launcher? According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, yes, totally legal.

If they’re operational, you can register those actual cannons [as an NFA weapon],” Russ Morrison, a spokesman for the ATF, told the Daily Dot. “And if they’re sold, they’d have to go through a transfer to make sure everything’s OK, and have it registered, as well.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/4616205/oklahoma-city-oklahoma-nfa-firearms-for-sale--fully-operational-main-battle-tank-with-120mm-live-cannon
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 12:43:49 am by mrclose »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2016, 12:45:19 am »
http://www.armslist.com/posts/4616205/oklahoma-city-oklahoma-nfa-firearms-for-sale--fully-operational-main-battle-tank-with-120mm-live-cannon

If you can get to the Silk Road (the Dark Web), you'll find way more goodies for sale.

It's the most frightening part of the Internet.
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Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2016, 01:58:43 am »
If you can get to the Silk Road (the Dark Web), you'll find way more goodies for sale.

It's the most frightening part of the Internet.
I assume<<---(yea, I know), I am guessing that the term dark net represents all of those sites that haven't been "indexed" by Google?
(Kind of like it was before Google existed.) :shrug:
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 01:59:26 am by mrclose »
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Offline Luis Gonzalez

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2016, 03:21:31 am »
I assume<<---(yea, I know), I am guessing that the term dark net represents all of those sites that haven't been "indexed" by Google?
(Kind of like it was before Google existed.) :shrug:

No.

What you just described is known as the Deep Web.

The dark Web is something else.

Quote
The “dark web” is a part of the world wide web that requires special software to access. Once inside, web sites and other services can be accessed through a browser in much the same way as the normal web.

However, some sites are effectively “hidden”, in that they have not been indexed by a search engine and can only be accessed if you know the address of the site. Special markets also operate within the dark web called, “darknet markets”, which mainly sell illegal products like drugs and firearms, paid for in the cryptocurrency Bitcoin.

There is even a crowdfunded “Assassination Market”, where users can pay towards having someone assassinated.

Because of the the dark web’s almost total anonymity, it has been the place of choice for groups wanting to stay hidden online from governments and law enforcement agencies. On the one hand there have been whistleblowers using the dark web to communicate with journalists, but more frequently it has been used by paedophile groups, terrorists and criminals to keep their dealings secret.
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Offline Mom MD

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2016, 02:45:00 pm »
I’m thinking about picking up a new firearm before the pending Assault Weapons Ban…
 
https://www.slickguns.com/product/colt-1877-bulldog-gatling-gun-brass-45-70-government-1825-inch-carriage-model-5526168?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter-191

I did just that   I do have to be very careful opening the case though   That little rascal has a tendency to run off on its own and start shooting people....   /s
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2016, 06:12:39 pm »
I did just that   I do have to be very careful opening the case though   That little rascal has a tendency to run off on its own and start shooting people....   /s

I hate it when that happens.  Have you tried chaining it?  lolol
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geronl

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2016, 06:33:26 pm »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2016, 03:46:12 pm »
The intent of the second Amendment was to insure that every able-bodied man in America would be armed in the event that the federal government or America’s own standing army turned on its people.

@mrclose


That's only half the story. The rest of the story is they were specifically stating "that citizens be armed with weapons typical of those carried by the typical infantry soldier in order that that not be outgunned if they ever have to face a professional army."

Which means that things like machine guns are the VERY weapons referred to when it comes to dealing with professional armies of today.

The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with deer hunting,gun collecting,trap or skeet shooting, target shooting,or even self-defense, It has EVERYTHING to do with citizens be able to be armed with the equivalent arms of any army they might have to face,including our own army.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:18:40 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2016, 04:09:48 pm »
Pretty sure that at the time of writing, there were no such thing as hobby grade guns. They were all military grade.

@EC

Not true. In fact,at that time sporting grade rifles were FAR superior to muskets in terms of both accuracy and speed of reloading. Military tactics at the time were to march shoulder to shoulder across open fields and have mass firings of smooth-bore muskets that were barely accurate enough to hit a man-sized target SOMEWHERE at 50 yards. The rifles that hunters were using could accurately take a man down at 300 yards or even further. Some were even breech-loaders that were MUCH quicker to reload than the Brown Bess muskets being used by the British. That's why small bands of revolutionaries were able to shoot the British army to pieces without taking many,if any causalities themselves.

The FF's only specified that the citizens have access to  "military grade arms of the type carried by the typical infantry soldier". They did NOT state that citizens couldn't or shouldn't have access to BETTER weapons that COULD be issued to the typical infantry soldier if the government weren't too cheap to buy them.

Look at where the military goes for sniper rifles,even today. They go to sniper rifles based on civilian target rifles.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:18:07 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2016, 04:16:19 pm »
Interesting! People would be better able to aim and shoot their own weapons rather the ones furnished by someone else which still would apply.  This all makes more and more sense.

The British were issued the old Brown Bess musket,and it was wildly inaccurate,very heavy,very long,and took a very long time to reload. About the only thing in it's favor was the dead soft lead 72 caliber bullet it fired. Damn few people were wounded,and most that were suffered traumatic amputations of arms or legs.

The colonist rifles were of much smaller calibers,shorter,lighter,and quicker to reload,and accurate out to 300 yards or more because they fired bullets instead of balls,and because the bores were "rifled" with lands and grooves that spun and stabilized the bullets in flight. That's why they were called "rifles" instead of muskets.

@rangerrebew
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:17:37 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2016, 04:25:16 pm »
http://www.armslist.com/posts/4616205/oklahoma-city-oklahoma-nfa-firearms-for-sale--fully-operational-main-battle-tank-with-120mm-live-cannon

@mrclose

Yes,it is legal under federal law,but to buy one you MUST buy a Class Three License (tax stamp) and be approved by the BATF prior to taking possession.

Some people claim that states have the right to deny "weapons of mass destruction" to their citizens,and do,but the reality is people like Steven Spielberg buy and possess stuff like this all the time. He even bought TWO Russian SS-20 ICBM's with their launch trucks and controls after the USSR collapsed,and had them shipping to the west coast. Customs officials panicked when they went to inspect them before allowing them into the country,and found the nuke warheads still in the missiles loaded in the launch base of one of them.

BTW,it has been said that Spielberg also owns the worlds larges private machine gun collection. He uses the ruse of buying them though his movie production company as props because corporations are exempt from gun bans,even in states that ban machine guns. The Dims in charge during the Roosevelt Administration made sure of that loophole when the MGA of 1934 was passed into law. It's also how the Kennedy bodyguards are able to carry mini-uzi's concealed under their coats in Mass and DC. A corporation owned by a Kennedy Trust owns the corporation that owns the Uzi's,and the bodyguards are their employees.

Slick,huh?

If you ain't a multi-billionaire that gives millions to pieces of political shit like Di-Fi and support traitors like Bathhouse Barry with millions in donations,don't even waste your time asking,though. "Equality" means different things to leftists than it does to the rest of us.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 04:29:21 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2016, 04:33:43 pm »

Because of the the dark web’s almost total anonymity, it has been the place of choice for groups wanting to stay hidden online from governments and law enforcement agencies. On the one hand there have been whistleblowers using the dark web to communicate with journalists, but more frequently it has been used by paedophile groups, terrorists and criminals to keep their dealings secret.


In other words,members of Congress,the US Senate,Appointed high government officials,and their aides.
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Offline mrclose

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Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2019, 09:29:17 pm »
My layout (in this post) of the page disappeared but the link works fine.
(This was actually my first attempt in creating a web page)

BTW: No ads, no popups at link! :beer:

The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
 

https://mrclose.neocities.org/DUPE.HTML

I think that this is even more relevant today than when I first posted it!

At least, at that time a good majority of true conservatives knew and believed what the "Right To Bear Arms" meant!

With the NRA and Trump approving of the ban on 'bump stocks' and the heated rhetoric coming from both sides after these mass murders ..I fear that the ever so slow erosion of the second amendment will now go into overdrive!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2019, 12:06:14 am by txradioguy »
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