Third Veteran Dumped By Trump Because Of Military Service

[Sanguine]

#4Hillary crowd appears to be not only be desperate but a little masochistic.

 

Yes, I agree.  You #4Hillary types are doing everything you can to alienate as many possible Trump voters as possible.  I was sort of agnostic about Trump in the beginning.  Not so much now so.

[Mechanicos]

Yes, I agree.  You #4Hillary types are doing everything you can to alienate as many possible Trump voters as possible.  I was sort of agnostic about Trump in the beginning.  Not so much now so.

Who in here pretending to be #neverTrump has been posting articles from far left sources and articles on why conservatives should vote for Hillary?
I am for America and I like to fight liberals.

[bolobaby]

#4Hillary crowd appears to be not only be desperate but a little masochistic.

 

So, I think this continued and blatant attempt to misrespresent #NeverTrump as #4Hillary is going to earn Mechanicos the ignore. One can only read so many lies before they simply grow tiresome.

It's clear he's purposefully trying to provoke as well, because he's desperate to defend his bad choice for the nomination.

<ignore>

[Sanguine]

Who in here pretending to be #neverTrump has been posting articles from far left sources and articles on why conservatives should vote for Hillary?
I am for America and I like to fight liberals.

Let me help you with your confusion.  Your question should be: "Who in here pretending to be #4Trump has been posting articles from far left sources and articles and doing their best to antagonize conservatives away from considering voting for Trump?"

[Mechanicos]

Let me help you with your confusion.  Your question should be: "Who in here pretending to be #4Trump has been posting articles from far left sources and articles and doing their best to antagonize conservatives away from considering voting for Trump?"

I do not know if you noticed I have effectively negated quite a bit of the deceptive rhetoric used to attack Trump. Today alone the La Raza Judge and the "suggestion" for example. When dealing with people who call me a liar and attack, I push back. If I was wrong all the time it would be a justified complaint or if I was the only one pushing back. Its not the case tho.

I cannot make you do anything, but if your going to do something you very well may regret for the rest of your life (Letting Hillary in) at least do not do  so because I win arguments with people who IMHO are misinformed or outright being deceptive to trick Cruz people. 

You are one of the ones I really like and respect on here. I have known you for years and know you are a strong mind, it is my belief you will not do anything because of what one person online says in a argument.

[Neverdul]

So instead of having ANY evidence at all that he was even off-handedly informed of this at the time...you're simply saying you THINK he should have been told. Well, the truth is he was not personally running Trump shuttle and doubtless had virtually no direct involvement in the company's day to day affairs. Businessmen at this level have legal teams that handle smaller civil cases and which either work to settlement or go to court based on what is deemed most financially sound. Should those lawyers have placed the needs of a veteran above a basic cost analysis...of course. But if you think that discussion of that small of a business addressing that small of an incident came to the plate of Mr. Trump...well you have to have SOME kind of evidence. And you just don't. If you guys are going to dredge up small civil cases from 30 years ago with no way to demonstrate that Trump was involved in any way...well, its going to be a disappointing summer and fall for you.

If you think for one minute that a federal law suit regarding Trump Shuttle would not have come to the attention of Donald Trump, you are either sadly mistaken or Trump and the people he hires are idiots.

In my corporate HR/Payroll management career that includes working for some large publicly traded companies, yes, the CEO is informed of all litigations. That’s part of the job of a CEO.

“Should those lawyers have placed the needs of a veteran above a basic cost analysis...of course.”

So you are saying that violating the law and discriminating against a reservist who was on an approved military leave is OK if the needs are “above a basic cost analysis”?

[Mesaclone]

If you think for one minute that a federal law suit regarding Trump Shuttle would not have come to the attention of Donald Trump, you are either sadly mistaken or Trump and the people he hires are idiots.

In my corporate HR/Payroll management career that includes working for some large publicly traded companies, yes, the CEO is informed of all litigations. That’s part of the job of a CEO.

“Should those lawyers have placed the needs of a veteran above a basic cost analysis...of course.”

So you are saying that violating the law and discriminating against a reservist who was on an approved military leave is OK if the needs are “above a basic cost analysis”?

So then, it should be quite easy for you to provide some evidence of this...where is it?

[OldSaltUSN]

You guys are being ridiculous. There is a reason Vets and active duty soldiers are supporting Trump with heavy majorities...and its because they know he is looking out for their interests. They aren't stupid, or hoodwinked, or bamboozled or even naive...as you would paint them. They see Donald, they hear him...and they like him in huge numbers. Its really not complicated.

That might be true, but you don't mind if I ask for a supporting link to prove your point?

All I can offer is anecdotal.   I'm a Vet.  I know an awful lot of Vet's.   They're 100% anti-Trump.  Trump has zero, goose eggs support from the people I know.  And, the people I know are not internet phantom hero's.  They're human, genuine active duty and retired military vet's.

Plus, active duty are generally apolitical by nature (and by UCMJ).  You won't see them at political rallies.  I know a couple of the Benghazi contractors announced pro-Trump, but they're the highest profile supporters that I recall.

So, when I see a statement like that, it feels similar to the "85% of GOP voters support Trump" claim I read on TBR earlier.   It's ludicrous on it's face.  Your statement regarding Vets supporting Trump in lockstep may or may not be true, but Trump supporters don't have a whole lot of credibility with numbers, with me.

[OldSaltUSN]

Still waiting on you to show that Mr. Trump even knew who this man was or anything personally about his hiring/non-hiring.

Whatcha got?

Trump owned the airline.  He was accountable for it's actions.  It wasn't a hidden legal action. Trump had ample opportunities to make it write with the Col.  That he did not, is prima facie evidence that Trump supported his Airline managers in their decision, which they unsuccessfully litigated.

Yours was a strawman argument.  It was a logical fallacy.  It has nothing to do with whether or not Trump was accountable for this then Active Duty reservists being fired from Trump Air.  It also means that your pseudo intellectual argument in defense of Trump failed, utterly.

Trump has no logical defense for firing this USAF active duty reservist.  He is guilty.

[DCPatriot]

He's not a philanthropist for chrissakes.

He's a businessman/employer.

[OldSaltUSN]

No. I'm telling you a man with 30,000 employees is not going to be directly involved in the hiring and firing of every individual employee...in fact, a businessman is going to hire only a few key players directly and the rest are delegated to managers. Its a delegated task, and given that this supposedly happened 30 years ago its an absurd reach to pretend Trump fired this guy personally. Its an embarrassingly bad attempt to create a negative perception using something he almost certainly had no involvement in whatsoever.

Under normal circumstances I would agree with you.  However, the decision not to honor the terms of the acquisition was an executive decision not a managerial one.

The case was litigated.  It was public.  There is no possibility, ZERO, that Trump wasn't appraised of litigation against one of his companies, particularly if they lost the litigation.  Trump knew about the case and supported the action against the Col., when he could have stepped in and made it right.

Trump has no defense.  The rest of Mesaclone's argument is progressive smoke and mirrors, though they execute it far better.

[OldSaltUSN]

He's not a philanthropist for chrissakes.

He's a businessman/employer.

His company broke the law, and Trump personally failed to support an active duty military reservist. 

Both of those assertions are indisputable.

This may be a theoretical argument for you, but when you're the military reservist who's career was sidelined or ended because you chose to serve, when others chose to avoid physical danger, and profit personally by doing so, it's a whole lot more significant situation.   Let me reiterate:  A veteran commercial pilot who loses his job during an airline merger will be lucky to be flying a crop duster, due to the priority of seniority within the commercial pilots union.  He certainly WILL not be returning as the left seat plane commander, with his choice of aircraft and routes, and veteran pilot pay.  THAT is what Trump stole from this USAF reserve officer.  This military pilot personally suffered for serving his country, and it happened at Trump's hand.

Trump could say "Hey, we screwed up, that's not how I personally feel about reservists, and I'd fire any manager of my company who did this again.", and he might have a bit or credibility.  He won't say that.  He wouldn't have done anything different, other than perhaps call the Colonel "a loser". 

THAT is Trumps history.  THAT is who Trump is.

Arguments to the contrary are not based in logic or historical fact.

[Mechanicos]

That might be true, but you don't mind if I ask for a supporting link to prove your point?

All I can offer is anecdotal.   I'm a Vet.  I know an awful lot of Vet's.   They're 100% anti-Trump.  Trump has zero, goose eggs support from the people I know.  And, the people I know are not internet phantom hero's.  They're human, genuine active duty and retired military vet's.

Plus, active duty are generally apolitical by nature (and by UCMJ).  You won't see them at political rallies.  I know a couple of the Benghazi contractors announced pro-Trump, but they're the highest profile supporters that I recall.

So, when I see a statement like that, it feels similar to the "85% of GOP voters support Trump" claim I read on TBR earlier.   It's ludicrous on it's face.  Your statement regarding Vets supporting Trump in lockstep may or may not be true, but Trump supporters don't have a whole lot of credibility with numbers, with me.

In the last four live interview polls that broke down results by partisanship,1 Trump averaged 85 percent support against Hillary Clinton among respondents who identified as Republicans.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gop-voters-are-rallying-behind-trump-as-if-he-were-any-other-candidate/

And yes vets overwhelmingly support Trump.

https://sofrep.com/46244/sofrep-poll-says-veterans-active-duty-military-choose-trump-over-hillary/

Face it. Vets and Troops know what a Hillary presidency will do to them.

[Sanguine]

I do not know if you noticed I have effectively negated quite a bit of the deceptive rhetoric used to attack Trump. Today alone the La Raza Judge and the "suggestion" for example. When dealing with people who call me a liar and attack, I push back. If I was wrong all the time it would be a justified complaint or if I was the only one pushing back. Its not the case tho.

I cannot make you do anything, but if your going to do something you very well may regret for the rest of your life (Letting Hillary in) at least do not do  so because I win arguments with people who IMHO are misinformed or outright being deceptive to trick Cruz people. 

You are one of the ones I really like and respect on here. I have known you for years and know you are a strong mind, it is my belief you will not do anything because of what one person online says in a argument.

Mechanicos, I was taken aback by that at first, but upon reflection, I'm glad you said it.  You too have been someone I've know for years and respect and admire.  You have always been so clear-thinking and unwilling to go along to get along (a trait I very much admire).  And, I've wondered over the last many months as this monstrosity of an election has worked its way forward - how you've come to be not just a Trump supporter, but a fervent one.  I'm not asking you to explain it, just letting you know that I'm truly baffled.  I understand the "no way should HRC ever see the inside of the White House again unless she's seeing in in a magazine from her little room on Cell Block K", but that doesn't necessitate being a Trump fan.  Just a voter.

So, let's hope once this is all over, however it turns out, we can begin the process of rebuilding what has been damaged.  I'm thinking you would agree with that.

[Mesaclone]

That might be true, but you don't mind if I ask for a supporting link to prove your point?

All I can offer is anecdotal.   I'm a Vet.  I know an awful lot of Vet's.   They're 100% anti-Trump.  Trump has zero, goose eggs support from the people I know.  And, the people I know are not internet phantom hero's.  They're human, genuine active duty and retired military vet's.

Plus, active duty are generally apolitical by nature (and by UCMJ).  You won't see them at political rallies.  I know a couple of the Benghazi contractors announced pro-Trump, but they're the highest profile supporters that I recall.

So, when I see a statement like that, it feels similar to the "85% of GOP voters support Trump" claim I read on TBR earlier.   It's ludicrous on it's face.  Your statement regarding Vets supporting Trump in lockstep may or may not be true, but Trump supporters don't have a whole lot of credibility with numbers, with me.

I've posted linkst, Mechanicos has posted links...others have posted links. How many polls and data points do you need to be convinced that Veterans and active duty soldiers favor Trump by a huge margin? This isn't speculation or anecdote, its polling data. I was active duty for a very long time, so I know precisely how active duty soldiers look at politics...heck, one of the links included is from the Army Times...and they have opinions just like every other citizen does. They don't wear it on their sleeves, nor do they violate the laws on campaigning, but they hold strong beliefs and have every right to advocate for whomever they wish...and in this election, they are supporting and advocating for Trump in great numbers.

And the people I know are not internet hero's either, whatever that may be in your mind. As far as know, you fit that criteria, however. Of course, you've every right to be whatever you want to be, and if your buddies are anti-Trump that's not really relevant to the discussion. The discussion is about who Veterans and soldiers are supporting and in what numbers...and the data is strongly in favor of Mr. Trump. Now if you don't like that, there's no need to cast aspersions on other veterans because they disagree with you. I have every respect for your service and I expect the same from you in return despite the fact that you evidently were a Navy man and not a soldier. If you lack the class for that, then that reveals a great deal about you and who you really are.