Author Topic: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage  (Read 112707 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,414
  • Gender: Male
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #350 on: January 16, 2020, 08:44:43 pm »
Here's an article from Ancestry around this issue.  Data showing all areas of the UK have signifiant (average) concentration of Scandinavian ancestry.  Seems the genetic makeup of Viking invaders of the 8th-10th century is ubiquitous in all of our testing.

https://www.ancestry.com/corporate/international/press-releases/DNA-of-the-nation-revealedand-were-not-as-British-as-we-think


Well then I guess my theory that I had Viking ancestors (like a lot of people) was correct. My guess it has to do with my dad's side of the family. Cause everyone from Dad's side of the family came all over from the British and Irish Isles.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,414
  • Gender: Male
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #351 on: January 16, 2020, 11:04:59 pm »
@mountaineer

Piss him off by offering to pay for his dna test.

I am 1/4 Tuscorara,and it doesn't mean a damn thing other that serve as a curiosity.


@sneakypete


Your more Siberian American than Warren.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #352 on: January 17, 2020, 12:09:27 am »

@sneakypete


Your more Siberian American than Warren.

@kevindavis

True. If she didn't have the mind of an amoeba,that would really upset her.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,417
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #353 on: March 07, 2020, 06:28:42 pm »
YDNA vs atDNA reliability issues

groups.io/g/R1b-U106 by Charles 3/5/2020

https://groups.io/g/R1b-U106/topic/71366751

Quote
It is extremely important that everyone understands the difference between the reliability aspects of different components of YDNA vs atDNA.  This subject area is the most misunderstood part of DNA testing.

As an overall generality, YDNA is way, way more reliable than atDNA, but it absolutely depends on EXACTLY what you mean, so let’s dive into it:

NGS Y testing, especially Big Y-700, which is far, far and away the best Y test for comparative analysis vs others on your line of descent is concerned, are entirely reliable.  What I mean about comparative analysis is the simple reality of the fact that way more people have Big Y-700 (or the lesser 500) tests, and therefore show up on FTDNA’s continuously iterative Block Tree.  It’s simply the fact of the matter.  The Country Report at each clade back up the Block Tree can be very informative, especially once you get beyond the same answers into something more ancestral.

On the other hand, Y STR testing is much, much less reliable, and it is very unfortunate that people don’t understand that fact.  STR testing was designed for, and is primarily useful for, simply differentiating your particular family of your surname vs the other families who happen to have the same surname. Trying to abuse STR testing beyond that, especially trying to branch a family on the basis of it, is a fool’s game.  Instead, order Big Y-700.

More at link.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #354 on: March 07, 2020, 06:41:33 pm »
Am I the only one that only understood a maximum of 1 word out of 3?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,772
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #355 on: March 07, 2020, 06:59:10 pm »
Am I the only one that only understood a maximum of 1 word out of 3?
Moi aussi. That's why I don't get too technical about my ancestry DNA. Oh, you say I'm part Scandinavian? Cool. Beyond that, my reaction is "huh?"
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline EdinVA

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,584
  • Gender: Male
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #356 on: March 07, 2020, 07:29:25 pm »
Never had any interest in the DNA..... It is the stories that I like.
My mom was a professional genealogist and she went thru all the documents for our family.
Evidently our first US bound ancestor stole a horse and they were going to hang him but he stowed away on a ship and came to American sometime in the 1700's.
We had a Cherokee woman in the tree but lost track of her on the Trail of Tears.

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,414
  • Gender: Male
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #357 on: March 07, 2020, 07:35:01 pm »
Never had any interest in the DNA..... It is the stories that I like.
My mom was a professional genealogist and she went thru all the documents for our family.
Evidently our first US bound ancestor stole a horse and they were going to hang him but he stowed away on a ship and came to American sometime in the 1700's.
We had a Cherokee woman in the tree but lost track of her on the Trail of Tears.


The only story I know about my family is that My mother grandfather on her dad's side (my Great - Grandpa and Grandpa), served in the German military before WWI. Hated it and left Germany in 1901. I did see something ironic. My Great-Grandpa had a draft card during WWI. He could have fought his old country.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,556
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #358 on: March 07, 2020, 07:45:46 pm »
Never had any interest in the DNA..... It is the stories that I like.
My mom was a professional genealogist and she went thru all the documents for our family.
Evidently our first US bound ancestor stole a horse and they were going to hang him but he stowed away on a ship and came to American sometime in the 1700's.
We had a Cherokee woman in the tree but lost track of her on the Trail of Tears.

DNA is useful for Geneology in settling disputed parentage disputes. Otherwise, it is pretty much useless IMHO.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #359 on: March 07, 2020, 07:57:58 pm »
DNA is useful for Geneology in settling disputed parentage disputes. Otherwise, it is pretty much useless IMHO.

@Bigun

Well,it's not like you can do anything about it.

You are who you are,and your ancestors are not to blame or take credit once you are 25 or so. After that age,it's all you.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,772
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #360 on: March 07, 2020, 08:31:38 pm »
One of my ancestors was incarcerated in Massachusetts but they let him out in 1635 on condition he go to Rhode island and never return. Had he ever been found in Massachusetts again, he would have been executed. I believe he turned out to be one of the founding fathers of Warwick, RI.  :pondering:
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #361 on: March 07, 2020, 08:48:05 pm »
Am I the only one that only understood a maximum of 1 word out of 3?

Unless your ancestors were from one place like my wife, but like mine from severaal places and types, it is complicated.

Just take Native Americans from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and it seems they migrated exgtensively over thousands of years.

Likewise the UK and Italy got trampled under the sandals of xeveral major peoples.

Who was in the UK, before the Celts, Anglo-Saxons? Were they the same as the North Sea Islanders (Scandinavian), or were they from continentsl Eorope-France etc (Celtic).

There are a few unique groups, like Basques, Saami, etc.

The testing companies use different terms, and different reference sample (bones).

EXAMPLE: Firm#1 labels bones from England, as "British," and a testing Firm#2, labels the same bones, as "Scandinavian."

Multiply these migrations by tens, go back centuries, and, and the possibilites multiply.

Example: When my uncle, carrer Army officer, had been stationed in Italy, met mywife, he told her she was part Greek.  That claim is probably true for many in that region of Italy.

My father, 1/2 Swedish, joked that his dark hair came from Viking exploits, to Southern Europe.

 

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,414
  • Gender: Male
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #362 on: March 07, 2020, 08:54:05 pm »
Unless your ancestors were from one place like my wife, but like mine from severaal places and types, it is complicated.

Just take Native Americans from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and it seems they migrated exgtensively over thousands of years.

Likewise the UK and Italy got trampled under the sandals of xeveral major peoples.

Who was in the UK, before the Celts, Anglo-Saxons? Were they the same as the North Sea Islanders (Scandinavian), or were they from continentsl Eorope-France etc (Celtic).

There are a few unique groups, like Basques, Saami, etc.

The testing companies use different terms, and different reference sample (bones).

EXAMPLE: Firm#1 labels bones from England, as "British," and a testing Firm#2, labels the same bones, as "Scandinavian."

Multiply these migrations by tens, go back centuries, and, and the possibilites multiply.

Example: When my uncle, carrer Army officer, had been stationed in Italy, met mywife, he told her she was part Greek.  That claim is probably true for many in that region of Italy.

My father, 1/2 Swedish, joked that his dark hair came from Viking exploits, to Southern Europe.


@truth_seeker


England had a long history of being invaded.  That could explain my 3% Swedish DNA according to Ancestry if they are right.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,463
  • Gender: Male
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #363 on: March 07, 2020, 09:22:02 pm »
DNA is useful for Geneology in settling disputed parentage disputes. Otherwise, it is pretty much useless IMHO.

Actually have knocked out  three genealogical brick walls with dna matching.  2 of the 3, I had strong evidence, but not proof.  The 3rd was a breakthrough that would have never been found except by this means.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2020, 09:55:30 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #364 on: March 07, 2020, 09:33:49 pm »

@truth_seeker


England had a long history of being invaded.  That could explain my 3% Swedish DNA according to Ancestry if they are right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_between_Sweden_and_Norway
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,772
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #365 on: March 07, 2020, 09:56:06 pm »
England had a long history of being invaded.  That could explain my 3% Swedish DNA according to Ancestry if they are right.
That's my story. The Scandinavian Vikings ended up in Scotland and intermarried with the locals, apparently.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #366 on: March 08, 2020, 01:58:57 am »


Quote
Just take Native Americans from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego, and it seems they migrated exgtensively over thousands of years.


@truth_seeker

I have always wondered who the ignorant fool was that decided to lump the peoples already living in North America when the Spaniards and the English showed up as a group of people. They ranged from as black as Africans to as white as Swedes,and every shade in-between. Some were more like Asians that any other group of people,and they all had different religious beliefs and superstitions.

I have also wondered why the people of today still seem to believe that crap.


Quote
Who was in the UK, before the Celts, Anglo-Saxons?

Depends on how you define the UK.

Quote
Were they the same as the North Sea Islanders (Scandinavian), or were they from continentsl Eorope-France etc (Celtic).

Yes,and No. Depends on which ethnic group you are asking about.

Quote
There are a few unique groups, like Basques, Saami, etc.

The Basques definitely played a large role in developing the people of Northern Scotland and Ireland. They bred with the Picts and eventually replaced them,and the natives of Scotland had/have more in common with the Irish than the do the lowland Scots. IIRC,most of the lowland "Scots" are actually British citizens that were sent to Scotland to take over control of the farms and manufacturing in the lowlands to decrease the Scots attacks on the English. And,of course,over time,the original lowland Scots became genetic and cultural English,while the Highland Scots continued to be troublemakers. "Hadrians Wall" was originally built by the Romans to serve as a barrier to raids on the Roman settlements by the Picts,who were described as "giants who had red hair and painted their bodies blue and went into battle naked."

The people we call "British" today are originally from Europe. Most likely their ancestors were fishermen or just peasants looking for free land to farm that didn't belong  to some king or another. You just can't beat "free land" if you are born on a farm owed by someone else and have no hope of ever earning enough money to buy your own farm.

BTW,I have never heard of the Saami immigrating to when is  now GB. I know for a fact there was a huge settlement of them in Russia,primarily in the Mari Republic,and others in (I believe) the northern part of what is today called Finland. I was once friends with the Russian woman who wrote the first dictionary defining the Sammi language. She was half-Saami herself,and married to an ethnic Slav. If anyone is interested in this,the Mari Museum is on the web with many interesting photos and history.

What has always fascinated me is the people who were native to a eastern European major city (damn chemo brain is blocking the name at the moment) who had a language and custom all of their own,and who were also described as "giants with red hair". Especially since the desert burial ground in China was discovered in mainland China in what is now a desert region that was filled with elaborate tombs. One of which,when opened,contained what could be described as a giant women with red hair reclining on a couch dressed in what we would call a "witch costume" today. Yup,even the "witch hat". It is so dry in that area that she was almost perfectly preserved,and her hair was red,her eyes were blue,and her skin was white. Nobody knows where these giant redheads came from,but that Eastern European city whose name I can't remember now was partially populated by people with that description,and even their language was different than everybody else that lived there. MY theory is they are a part of the same tribe from Basque country that immigrated to northern Scotland.

 
 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2020, 02:10:23 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #367 on: March 08, 2020, 02:12:09 am »
That's my story. The Scandinavian Vikings ended up in Scotland and intermarried with the locals, apparently.

@mountaineer

Yes,but the real question is "Where did the Scandinavian Vikings come from?"
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #368 on: March 08, 2020, 03:38:34 am »
@mountaineer

Yes,but the real question is "Where did the Scandinavian Vikings come from?"
They are spoken of as a Northern branch of "Germanic"=Danes, Swedes, Norwegians, Icelanders, some Fins, ) vs.Continental or South  branch of "Germanic =  (Germans, Austrians, Franks,  Belgians etc.)

Most Fins, are closest to Hungarians and Estonians, at least language-wise)
National boundaries do not equal racial/ethynic boundaries.

I believe "Saami are non-Germanic, but found from Norway to Russia far to the North. Totally separate language)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sámi_people

@sneakypete  @mountaineer


 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #369 on: March 08, 2020, 05:51:45 am »
Nordic & Baltic Regional DNA Project

Genetic variations within Nordic & Baltic countries
Scandinavian people are less homogeneous genetically than is generally believed. Various studies have shown that the frequency of Y-DNA haplogroups (ancestral paternal lineages) varied considerably between regions and similar patterns are reflected between Scandinavian dialects.
Historical and cultural context
Looking at whole genomes, the Danes are genetically intermediary between Swedes and Frisians or North Germans. Within Denmark itself, there is reason to believe that Jutlanders are not identical to Zealanders. Historically Danish Zealand and Swedish Scania formed a single entity. Comparing northern and southern Jutlanders will also shed light on the source population of the Jutes and Angles who migrated to England in the 5th century.
In ancient times, Sweden was home to two other distinct tribes: the Goths in what became Götaland and the Swedes in Svealand. The mountainous Dalarna region between Sweden and Norway developed its own dialect after centuries of isolation. It is also the southermost region where Sami is spoken.
Iceland and the Faroe Islands were discovered and settled by Vikings of mainly Norwegian origin. However these Norsemen also brought slaves from Scotland and Ireland, and as a result the proportion of Scottish and Irish lineages is considerable, representing maybe 25% of male lineages and 50% of female lineages.
The Vikings brought back slaves from Britain and Ireland to Western Norway, where the incidence of British and Irish paternal lineages is now makes up over 10% of the population.
The northern half of Norway and Sweden shows a gradient of admixture between the Scandinavian and Sami populations. The Sami are divided in three cultural groups and nine dialects, including three dialects and one cultural group in the Kola peninsula in Russia. The second cultural group corresponds to the North Lapland and Finnish Lapland on the map. The last one ranges from Northern Norway to Dalarna. Five Sami dialects are spoken, including the southern Sami dialect spoken in Trøndelag and Jämtland.
Linguistically, Finland is divided between the eastern Savonian dialect and several western dialects. The Swedes have historically settled in large numbers along the western and southern coasts of Finland and Swedish is still spoken today, especially in western Ostrobothnia (displayed under its Swedish name, Österbotten, on the map). The Finnish Lapland is a merger of two Uralic populations, the Finns and Sami.
Estonian is a Finnic language that split from Finnish a bit over 1,000 years ago. It has a northern dialect and a southern dialect, which were used to separate the country in two potentially slightly distinct genetic regions.

snip
@kevindavis @sneakypete @mountaineer
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online mountaineer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 78,772
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #370 on: March 08, 2020, 01:29:01 pm »
Interesting, ts.

 I follow a Facebook page for people who share my father's surname (and various iterations thereof). They have a DNA project going for males in the group, which excludes me, tracking back to all the aforementioned Vikings.
Support Israel's emergency medical service. afmda.org

Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,361
  • Gender: Female
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #371 on: March 08, 2020, 02:31:51 pm »
Interesting, ts.

 I follow a Facebook page for people who share my father's surname (and various iterations thereof). They have a DNA project going for males in the group, which excludes me, tracking back to all the aforementioned Vikings.

Very cool. Don’t forget a lot of Viking women were warriors. So were some of their goddesses.
G-d bless America. G-d bless us all                                 

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter
Or an older dog or cat. They're true love❤️

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #372 on: March 08, 2020, 07:33:04 pm »
Interesting, ts.

 I follow a Facebook page for people who share my father's surname (and various iterations thereof). They have a DNA project going for males in the group, which excludes me, tracking back to all the aforementioned Vikings.

Before DNA came into use for genealogy, I developed
extensive old school paper ancestor trees (pedigree). DNA has confirmed them.

I must be descended from Viking High Chiefains, that returned from 'viking,' with maidens from afar.

My Y-dna Haplogroup is I1, which is the Viking type. Fatherline. And my paper tree goes many generations into West-central Sweden. Karlstad area. My great-grandfather came from there, to land in Minnesota.

Much better documentation exists, for his bride, who came from the southeast of Sweden, as a child with her elderly father. That group were the subjects of books by Vilhelm Moberg, titled "The Emigrants."

That is a four-book series about the people that migrated in the 1850s, and settled in the Chisago Lakes region. A movie.

More recently, the two guys in ABBA, made a musical about this story, titled "Kristina from Duvemala"


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,417
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #373 on: July 22, 2020, 12:24:16 pm »
Major privacy breach at GEDmatch

Cruwys news 7/19/2020

https://cruwys.blogspot.com/2020/07/major-privacy-breach-at-gedmatch.html

Quote
There has been a major privacy breach at GEDmatch, the third-party genetic genealogy website which has become well known in the last two years because of its use by law enforcement agencies in the US to solve cold cases. A member of the Genetic Genealogy Ireland Facebook group posted a message at lunchtime today (13.38 pm UK time) to advise that the site had been compromised and that people were receiving what appeared to be fake matches with suspicious e-mail addresses.(This Facebook post has now been deleted.) Some users were reporting that they were receiving unusually large numbers of  new matches, all sharing unexpectedly high amounts of DNA which would normally indicate a very close relationship. In another group, one user reported receiving over 3000 matches, all of which shared over 700 cM. A match in this range would normally indicate a very close relationship such as a first cousin or closer.

Later on this afternoon (14.54 pm UK time) a user posted in the Genetic Genealogy Tips and Techniques group on Facebook that all his kits on GEDmatch were now publicly accessible and all marked as available to the police. This included not just standard kits but also phased kits and Lazarus kits,which are by default always marked as research kits and are not normally available for matching. I checked my own account at GEDmatch and found that all my kits had been changed without my consent to allow police access. This included two phased research kits which were never intended to be made public. I initially found that I was unable to change the settings on any of the kits. The site was up and down for a short while this afternoon before I was finally able to log in and restore my preferred access settings.

Since then GEDmatch has been offline with a message that the site is down for maintenance.

Many other people have also reported that their kits have been affected and that the settings have been changed to allow police access without their consent. Graham Coop shared on Twitter this afternoon a screenshot of his accounts showing how they had all been changed to allow police access..

Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,361
  • Gender: Female
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: Genealogy - Getting to Know your Heritage
« Reply #374 on: July 22, 2020, 01:06:03 pm »
Thanks @Elderberry

Btw, I learned you can get dna testing on your dogs and cats.

My sister got a test done on her dachshund puppy. She’s 90% dachshund with other breeds mixed. Seemed silly since she’s not showing her or anything, but....
G-d bless America. G-d bless us all                                 

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter
Or an older dog or cat. They're true love❤️