Author Topic: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar  (Read 2539 times)

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Offline ExFreeper

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2016, 08:48:45 AM »



Quote
Quoting chrisp390:

The pilot then trying to regain control swung the plane left and right before either passing out or being killed by the fire and the plane plunged towards the ocean.

The 90-degree turn is standard procedure to get out of an airlane when an emergency occurs. Pilots are trained to make that maneuver during emergency descent in cases of depressurization, smoke in the cockpit, or some similar situation when the craft remains under control but an onboard emergency occurs, to take the craft from an air traffic lane. Normally, once having descended, the aircraft would then take a 90-degree turn the opposite direction, to return to a heading similar to its original route. Why the 360-degree turn to the right was made is not immediately obvious; it is sometimes initiated to increase drag, and thus cause more rapid descent - but that is pure speculation at this time.

The fact that the turns were precisely 90 degrees left and then and 360-degree right turns indicates the airplane was under control during those time; damaged control surfaces would not initiate such precise turns. For this period of time, at least, it appears these were deliberate actions being taken.

None of this explains what caused the incident, but I hope it does help clarify why the maneuvers indicate the plane was under control, at least for the immediate time following its departure from its planned path. The big question now becomes: what precipitated this?


Quote
Quoting alfa164:
Russian TV was airing a report that this specific flight number had been targeted for "murder" a few days before the incident herein... a report that grossly misread the situation.

Sure, but at least they didn't solely spewed out that rubbish without providing airtime for those saying it's not terrorism. RT called me many times that day but I could only get 1 slot in... they wanted to do like at least 4 slots throughout... the times just weren't right for me...

Quoting Mir:
They are separated by minute, however. Lav smoke at :26, avionics smoke at :27.

I agree that this is a difficult one to comprehend because of what you said afterwards:

Quoting Mir:
As I said, if the fire was in the cockpit, that's reasonable. But if the fire was in the avionics bay, then it should not trigger the lav smoke detector because of the ventilation pattern of the air.

Anyone got a diagram of the circulation flows?


Quote
Quoting zeke:
The ECAM AVIONICS SMOKE means smoke has been detected in the extraction duct of the avionics ventilation system. The Avionics ventilation system is not just the avionics bay, it is also for cooling all of the electrical components on the flight deck including the instrument panel (i.e. the display units and the mode control panel), the overhead panels, and the circuit breakers. The air used to cool the cockpit instruments and circuit breaker panels comes from the cockpit. The air used for the avionics bay comes from the air conditioning duct.

Yeah, found it in the FCOM on AirCond/Press... But failed to find what supplies the air condition ducts, is it bleed air or a combo of bleed air and recirculated cabin air?

Quoting zeke:
Be careful jumping to conclusion that AVIONICS SMOKE means smoke generated in the avionics bay, it can also mean smoke inside the cockpit being drawn in during the normal ventilation process into the extract duct generating the ECAM.

Yes, what's interesting is that the avionics bay air doesn't get circulated back, it gets extracted to the cargo compartment or overboard (or the skin heat exchanger and gets recirculated in the extraction system)... Now, where does the cargo air get sent to? Overboard or some of it get recirculated again?

The reason why I ask this and the air cond ducts, is that in abnormal and smoke modes, aircond ducts supply the extraction system...

Quoting litz:
What if the Lav smoke was actually :26:58 and the avionics was :27:01

Let's not forget that the avionics smoke warning require the smoke detector detect smoke for 5 continuous seconds before activating the warning.


Quote
Quoting Mir:
Air from the air conditioning duct is only used in the event of a failure of one of the fans that draw air through the loop.

Yes, but what supplies the air conditioning duct and also what is the air circulation of the cargo compartment?

Quoting abnormal:
the use of the word perceptible is deliberate as the avionics smoke detectors are take a long time to go off. It's not unreasonable to expect that smoke could have entered the fwd lav before the detectors in the AVIONICS bay were even triggered.

The word "perceptible" has been carefully chosen : here it means, crudely : " if someone smells a *burning* odour", as our sense of smell is capable of discriminating very few molecules with an *odour stamp*... it is a lot more sensitive than a smoke detector.

Quoting YVRLTN:
Do the side windows have heat, or is it just the main windshield?

All cockpit windows are heated ; the windshields have two settings : Normal / Low . The side windows - fixed or sliding - only have one

Quoting flyingturtle:
Last ADS-B data was at 00:29:33.558 with 6 data receptions by ADS-B groundstations over the last 3 seconds of detection. It was tracking at 136 degrees.

The aircraft was consistently tracking at 139 degrees until 00:29:09.000, after which the aircraft had a small track change to 136... which was held from 00:29:18:776 until the end.

Autopilot switched off or changed from managed mode to heading select mode?

Quoting mandala499:
combo of bleed air and recirculated cabin air?

Depends on the cabin fans, if they are in auto its mixed, if it is set to off non recirculated.

Quoting mandala499:
Overboard or some of it get recirculated again?

Overboard normally, you dont want gas from a cargo being circulated into the cabin.



« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 12:30:46 PM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2016, 01:16:48 PM »


Quote
EgyptAir flight MS804 pilot spoke with air traffic control 'for several minutes before crash'

Account directly contradicts the official claim that there was no distress call

UK Independent - By John Lichfield Paris Sunday 22 May 2016

The pilot of the doomed EgyptAir flight spoke to air traffic control in Egypt for several minutes just before the plane crashed, a French television station has claimed.

M6 said that the pilot told Cairo control about the smoke which had engulfed parts of the aircraft and decided to make an emergency descent to try to clear the fumes.

This account directly contradicts the official claim that there was no distress call from the plane.

M6’s story, quoting unnamed French aviation officials, was not confirmed by the French air accident investigation agency, the BEA.

No such information had been passed by the Egyptian authorities to three BEA investigators who had flown to Cairo to take part in the official inquiry, the agency said.

M6 said that the pilot of the Egyptair A320 had "a conversation several minutes long" with Cairo air traffic control after the plane ran into difficulties in the early hours of Thursday morning.

As a result of the conversation, the pilot decided to make an “emergency descent”, depressurising the cabin, in an attempt to clear smoke fumes which had invaded the front of the aircraft.

Just after the Paris-Cairo flight vanished on Thursday, there were contradictory claims about distress calls or signals. An airline spokesman initially said that there had been a distress call from the airbus. This statement was denied by the Egyptian military and withdrawn by EgyptAir.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egyptair-flight-ms804-pilot-spoke-with-air-traffic-control-for-several-minutes-before-crash-a7041936.html






Quote
Egypt Sends Submarine to Search for Egyptair Flight MS804 Black Boxes

NBC News -  by Phil Helsel and Gemma DiCasimirro

Egypt deployed a robot submarine on Sunday to join the search for EgyptAir Flight MS804's black boxes amid the ongoing investigation into what downed the passenger plane.

President Abdel-Fattah al-Sisi announced the deployment of the submarine Sunday in his first public remarks about the crash, warning that an investigation into the incident will take time.

Until now all scenarios are possible. So please, it is very important that we do not talk and say there is a specific scenario," Sisi said, according to Reuters. "This could take a long time."

Sisi said that underwater equipment from Egypt's offshore oil industry was being brought in to help the search.

"They have a submarine that can reach 3,000 meters (nearly 10,000 feet) under water," he said in the televised speech. "It moved today in the direction of the plane crash site because we are working hard to salvage the black boxes."

An oil ministry source said Sisi was referring to a robot submarine used mostly to maintain offshore oil rigs. It was not clear whether the vessel would be able to help locate the black boxes, or would be used in later stages of the operation.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/egyptair-crash/egypt-sends-submarine-search-egyptair-flight-ms804-black-boxes-n578236



PMS Burullus appears to be on location. If anyone is interested this is the ship that is performing the ROV work: http://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/..._:e81d66a2d139a567eb229aba616a7dd6



« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 10:44:44 AM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2016, 03:10:36 PM »

EgyptAir plane 'did not swerve' before crash


Al Jazeera / Reuters

Egypt air navigation official says plane did not swerve or lose altitude before it disappeared, as claimed by Greece.

The head of Egypt's state-run provider of air navigation services says that EgyptAir flight 804 did not swerve or lose altitude before it disappeared off radar, challenging an earlier account by Greece's defence minister.

Ehab Azmy, head of the National Air Navigation Services Company, told The Associated Press news agency on Monday that in the minutes before the plane disappeared it was flying at its normal altitude of 37,000 feet, according to the radar reading.

He said: "That fact degrades what the Greeks are saying about aircraft suddenly losing altitude before it vanished from radar."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/egyptair-plane-swerve-crash-160523143800474.html




Quote
Quoting Rivet42:
Q:  However, if the Greek military report is still valid, the aircraft continued for 7 minutes at FL370 after ATC lost contact before it began the left turn which doesn't make much sense either unless an avionics fire took out the transponder...

A: Closest Greek radar site would be on Karpathos Island which is around 192 nm miles away. We need to understand that primary radar at that sort of distance is not all that accurate. Second closest radar site would have been the Ziros Area Control Center which is more like 214 nm away, then you have Fodele at 274 nm, and lastly Sklavopoula at 335 nm.

If they are saying radar contact was lost at 15,000 ft, assuming the base antenna is located at 1000m, you would have a maximum radar range of just under 220 nm.


zeke






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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #54 on: May 24, 2016, 08:04:10 AM »
Quote
EgyptAir 804 remains point to bomb: official
skynews.com.au, May 24, 2016

A senior Egyptian forensics official says human remains retrieved from the crash site of EgyptAir flight 804 suggest there was an explosion on board that may have brought down the aircraft.

The official is part of the Egyptian investigative team and has personally examined the remains at a Cairo morgue.

He spoke on condition of anonymity because he isn't authorised to release the information.

He says all 80 pieces brought to Cairo so far are small and that 'there isn't even a whole body part, like an arm or a head'.

Read more at skynews.com.au

 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 08:04:38 AM by Right_in_Virginia »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #55 on: May 24, 2016, 08:35:01 AM »
Quote
Forensics chief retracts EgyptAir blast claims

Egypt's head of forensics denied reports that an initial examination of human remains belonging to victims aboard the EgyptAir jet that crashed in the Mediterranean pointed towards an explosion, state news agency MENA said on Tuesday.

"Everything published about this matter is completely false, and mere assumptions that did not come from the Forensics Authority," MENA quoted Hesham Abdelhamid as saying in a statement.


http://worldaffairsjournal.org/content/pentagon-confirms-us-talks-yemen%E2%80%99s-houthis




<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVA3Xbfx8CI" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVA3Xbfx8CI</a>


Quoting DocLightning
Q: I wonder why their #1 engine is feathered and shut down in the link's video
A:  The P-3 can shut down a couple of engines to increase loiter time.  apfpilot


UPDATE 6
May 23, 2016 at 14:30 UTC

Yesterday, (May 22), U.S. Navy P-3s continued to support the search effort with two missions (6th and 7th) from NAS Sigonella. The first flight of the day (6th overall) discovered another debris field that was a radius of three nautical miles in size. Once reported to the Egyptian on scene commander, the aircraft was sent elsewhere to search for additional debris fields. The Egyptians deployed small vessels to retrieve debris in the field they discovered. From post mission reporting and the plotting of debris fields, two confirmed debris fields have been located by U.S. Navy aircraft supporting the effort.

http://www.c6f.navy.mil/news/us-navy-p-3-orion-assists-search-egyptair-flight-ms804




« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 02:25:54 PM by ExFreeper »
"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - Milton Friedman

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #56 on: May 24, 2016, 03:52:02 PM »



EgyptAir Crash: Safety Experts Voice Fears Over Flight 804 Evidence

WSJ -  By Daniel Michaels in Frankfurt, Tamer El-Ghobashy in Cairo and Robert Wall in London

Updated May 23, 2016 6:05 p.m. ET

Aviation-safety experts are voicing concerns that Egypt may be mishandling debris collected from the downed EgyptAir plane, potentially compromising evidence that could help determine why the Airbus Group SE A320 crashed.

Forensic and chemical analysis of aircraft wreckage can yield vital information for investigators to glean how and why a plane went down. Such findings are particularly crucial when investigators lack access to a plane’s flight recorders, known as black boxes, which typically provide the most comprehensive information about what occurred on board on a flight.

EgyptAir Flight 804 plunged into the Mediterranean Sea on May 19 during a flight from Paris to Cairo with 66 people on board.

Crash investigators are battling not just a lack of data, but also conflicting information about the last seconds of flight. Greek officials Thursday said the plane veered off course before its demise. Ehab Azmi, chairman of the Egyptian air-navigation service, on Monday disputed that sequence, saying contact with the plane was lost abruptly while still at its cruising altitude.

The Egyptian navy has been scooping plane debris and body parts out of the water while the search continues for the main wreckage.

People in close contact with the investigation are concerned that potentially vital evidence is being compromised. Photographs released by Egypt’s military of the salvage operation show personnel handling items without wearing protective clothing, and placing them on unprotected surfaces.

This could threaten the investigation, the people said, because forensic investigators will analyze debris for chemical residue of explosives, fire or smoke. Military personnel who are in contact with weapons or ammunition can be exposed to similar chemical residue and inadvertently transfer it to any debris they handle. Lubricants and other nonmilitary items on ships can contain the same chemicals used to produce explosives and jeopardize chemical analysis of the debris.

Egypt’s military declined to comment on the recovery process, referring questions to the country’s civil aviation ministry. A spokesman for the ministry said concerns over contamination are without merit. He said the military’s recovery teams were accompanied by aviation ministry experts, whom he described as search "veterans” who comply with the standards that govern such operations.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptair-crash-safety-experts-voice-fears-over-flight-804-evidence-1464036919




MASK MAN ON pb:
-- AUTO – a signal is automatically sent to open thepassenger mask doors when the cabin altitude exceeds 14,000 feet.
-- Selected – manually sends a signal to deploy masks.

PASSENGER SYS ON light – illuminates white when either an automatic or manual signal has been sent to deploy the passenger masks.

CREW SUPPLY pb – controls the crew oxygen low pressure supply valve:
-- ON (lights out) – the supply valve is open, and low pressure oxygen is supplied to the masks.
-- OFF (white) – the supply valve is closed.


-- Used in response to the Avionics Equipment Ventilation Computer (AEVC) sensing smoke in the avionics compartment.
-- The BLOWER and EXTRACTpbs are placed to the OVRD (override) position inaccordance with ECAM procedure.
-- This closes the inlet valve, stops the blower fan, and isolates the cargo under floor and aircraft skin heat exchanger.
-- Conditioned air is provided by the air conditioning system through an air conditioning inlet valve.
-- The extract fan draws the conditioned air through the avionics compartment, and expels it through the small internal flap within the closed extract valve.

h/t:  PPRUnE


Some notes Regarding ACARS messages...
00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT

Source Document:  A319/A320 Technical Notes

An extraction fan draws air from the cabin through the lavatories and galleys and exhausts it near the outflow valve. The extraction fan runs continuously when electrical power is available.

My observation -> If there is smoke in the cabin, it will be drawn into the lavatories to the smoke detector. Smoke source not necessarily in the lavatory.

In Smoke Configuration the main bus bars are shedded. Same as emergency electrical configuration except that the fuel pumps are connected upstream of the GEN 1 line contactor. 75% of equipment is shed, all that is remained is supplied from the CBs on the overhead panel.

• A smoke detector in the air extraction duct detects smoke in the avionics compartment. If smoke is detected for more than 5 min it can be cleared but remains latched. A dual FCU reset on ground can de-latch it.
• One smoke detector is in each lavatory. It sends signals to an SDCU (Smoke Detection Control Unit) which in turn sends signals to the FWC and CIDS.

Flight Controls
• Flight control surfaces are electrically controlled and hydraulically activated.
• The stabilizer and rudder can be mechanically controlled.
• There are seven Flight Control Computers:
o Two ELACs
•  Normal elevator and stabilizer control.
•   Aileron control.
o Three SECs
•   Spoiler control.
•   Standby elevator and stabilizer control.
o Two FACs
•   Electrical rudder control.
• Also, there are two FCDC (Flight Control Data Concentrators) which acquire data from the ELACs and the SECs and send it to the CFDS and EIS

SEC 3 – Controls Spoiler 2.
If a SEC fails, its spoilers are retracted.

Speedbrake
• The Speedbrake is made up of spoilers 2, 3 and 4.
• Extension is inhibited if:
o SEC 1 and SEC 3 have faults.

Flight Control - Mechanical Backup
• Mechanical backup happens in the case of a complete loss of electrical power.
• Pitch is controlled manually using the THS. (Trimmable Horizontal Stabilizer)
• Lateral control is through the rudders.





"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - Milton Friedman

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #57 on: May 24, 2016, 04:01:24 PM »
Long out of a job, "Baghdad Bob" may return to handle media relations, for Egypt.

Got Taqqiya ?? This is yet another nail in the coffin, of their tourism business.
#NeverHillary

Offline ExFreeper

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2016, 05:40:29 PM »
Greece to start key data handover on EgyptAir crash Wednesday: source

Reuters - May 24, 2016

Greece will start dispatching key information on the EgyptAir crash to Egyptian authorities on Wednesday, including data from the airliner as it flew through Greek airspace moments before disappearing, a source close to the probe said on Tuesday.

"We will start sending the main data from tomorrow, including the radar tracking and the conversation with controllers," one source who requested anonymity told Reuters.

Sixty-six people are thought to have died when the EgyptAir Airbus plunged into the Mediterranean 290 km north of Alexandria on a Paris to Cairo flight on May 19. The aircraft dropped off radars 10 minutes after leaving Greek airspace and entering Egyptian airspace.

The source close to the probe, and a second defense ministry official, said Greece stuck by its account that the plane had lurched violently in mid-air before it disappeared from radar screens. There has already been an exchange of information with Egypt, the sources said.

Egyptian authorities said they did not see the plane swerve and lose altitude before it vanished from their radars.

Greek Defense Minister Panos Kammenos last week said the aircraft took a sudden 90 degree turn, before flipping 360 degrees in the opposite direction and plunging from a cruising altitude of 37,000 feet to 15,000 feet, then vanishing.

"The picture we have off our radars is what the minister announced... we insist on that," the defense official said.

The plane and its black box recorders, which could explain what brought down the aircraft, have not yet been detected. Egyptian officials have said it is too early to draw any conclusions on what may have caused the crash.

Asked about widespread speculation of an explosion, the source close to the probe said: "To be honest, I'm not an expert on this issue... the aircraft debris is too small in number for us to say why the plane crashed."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/greece-start-key-data-handover-egyptair-crash-wednesday-145904171.html?nhp=1



Reference Material

BEA Study:  Flight Data Recorder Read-Out Technical and Regulatory Aspects


Latest Tracking - PMS BURULLUS  (33.54733° / 29.13073°)
(2016-05-25 16:52 UTC) Appears to be a sonar search pattern !


Quote
The AIS plot shown above is very strongly indicative of the search vessel looking at a credible search datum.

They are clearly using Dynamic Positioning (DP) to manoeuvre the vessel on the search pattern and they are clearly using a deep tow sensor. They are not 'towing' the side-scan towfish or deep-tow pinger locator like a trawler tows a net. It's not astern of them, most of the time.

Sidescan sonar seems quite likely, but you would use a very similar pattern to 'box in' a suspected target with a deep tow hydrophone to locate a pinger signal.

A sensible searcher would concentrate his efforts, at this stage in time, to getting best data from the battery-limited pinger.

The way you do that is not by triangulation but by measuring the signal strength as you pass by the source. You plot that out with signal strength in the Y axis and the distance along track on the X axis. You get a parabolic curve, albeit a lumpy bumpy one which can sometimes be a bitch to interpolate. Maximum strength suggests that that is where your line reached closest point of approach (CPA). That gives you an LoP to/from the target, perpendicularly. By repeating that line perpendicularly you get a cross-cut of that LoP. By covering the other two sides you eliminate the baseline side confusion and further refine the position. Voila. You have a good approximation to the actual co-ords of your Dukane (or whatever) pinger.

I do, however, concur with those who have pointed out that the line-spacing is more consonant with a medium frequency sonar run, eg 125kHz, than what you would choose for a broad-brush pinger locator run in anything other than very shallow water. The reason why I think it's more likely to be a pinger locator on the end of the wire than a side-scan is that the speed over the ground is something like half a knot. That's Okay for a hydrophone but would not be enough water speed to keep a side-scan towfish on any kind of of sensible heading and would make sonar trace interpretation impossible.

I therefore conclude that they've got a pinger within earshot and are boxing it in before putting an ROV onto it.

The water depth at that locus, btw, is approx 3106m. The seabed sediment consistency in that area is like baby-poop. ROVs will have to be negatively ballasted, ie positively buoyant at bottom depths, so that they don't stir up the fluffy sediment and blind themselves during recovery of high value items such as the 'box(es)'.

Source: Cazalett33 @ PPRuNe Forums


« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 11:28:52 AM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2016, 02:48:00 PM »
Crashed EgyptAir Plane Tagged with Jihadist Graffiti
"We will bring this plane down."
May 25, 2016
Dawn Perlmutter

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/262952/crashed-egyptair-plane-tagged-jihadist-graffiti-dawn-perlmutter
 

EgyptAir Flight 804 that crashed into the Mediterranean Sea on May 19, 2016 had been tagged two years ago with graffiti that read in Arabic “We will bring this plane down.” The words “traitor” and “murderer” were also written in messages directed at Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. Security officials attributed the graffiti to the work of aviation workers at Cairo Airport who were protesting former General el-Sisi after he ousted the elected president Mohamed Morsi in 2013.  Details about the graffiti were given anonymously to the New York Times by Cairo Airport officials who said it had been linked to the domestic Egyptian political situation at the time rather than to a militant threat.  The New York Times described the graffiti as an “eerie coincidence” and the target of “political vandals.” The paper did not think it was newsworthy to expand on the concept of “political vandals” or to report that President Morsi was the Muslim Brotherhood candidate. Hence the aviation workers were most likely Muslim Brotherhood supporters clearly increasing the threat.

There is nothing eerie or coincidental about the airplane’s graffiti. Jihadists have tagged numerous planes with graffiti both celebrating and threatening terrorist attacks. Less than two weeks after the Paris terrorist attacks and less than a month after Russia’s Metrojet Flight 9268 was brought down by a bomb in Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, planes across France were found with Arabic graffiti. EasyJet airliners in different locations across France, including Charles de Gaulle Airport, had Arabic graffiti spray painted on their fuel tanks. Some of the graffiti read “Allahu Akbar”, which translates Allah is Greater, and is often used during Islamist terrorist attacks as a war cry to strike fear in the hearts of non-believers. The phrase is frequently used in graffiti by ISIS supporters. “Allahu Akbar” was sprayed on some of the fuel tanks, the bathroom door of one jet and on an access hatch to the cargo hold on an easyJet plane stationed in Lyon. “Allahu Akbar” sprayed on sections of aircraft that are supposed to be secure and not accessible to the public signifies both a threat and a celebration of the Paris attacks and the Russian airliner bombing. The graffiti was erased prior to any passengers boarding the plane and a spokesman for easyJet said it was not "considered a security problem both by us and by the authorities." A source close to the investigation told La Tribune, that “this has been happening for months on a number of airlines including easyJet.” When it comes to assessing the threat of graffiti on airplanes, the policy seems to be “see no evil”.

The phenomenon of not recognizing the seriousness of jihadist graffiti has been occurring in the U.S. for several years. In February 2015 and February 2014 I wrote articles describing how young Islamists and their sympathizers have been using every genre of graffiti to spread the global jihadist message. The prevalence of Islamic State and other jihadist graffiti has increased significantly in the past year and is often immediately relegated to kids joking around or designated as no credible threat.

On March 30, 2016 in Grand rapids, Michigan “ISIS IS Here” was written on the side of a home. In the same neighborhood “ISIS will Rise” and “ISIS We R Here” was sprayed on a utility box. There were two incidents in Tucson, Arizona this year. On March 23 the word “ISIS” had been spray painted on the side of a woman’s car. On February 8, 2016 at least 3 cars were tagged with ISIS in black paint and five walls in one neighborhood had anti-government, anti-police and ISIS graffiti. Some of the graffiti read: “ISIS is Here 2 Kill”, “Kill Kops”, “Islamic State”, “Your not Safe” and “Kill Everyone”. The phrase “ISIS is here” and “ISIS will Rise” may be a reference to the groups motto “Remaining and Expanding”.

In 2015 ISIS graffiti appeared in several cities. On July 19 in Colorado Springs, CO, “ISIS” was written on a I-25 CDOT highway sponsor sign. On July 26 “ISIS” appeared in multiple places along the Pueblo Riverwalk in Pueblo, Colorado.  On June 6 “ISIS” was spray painted on a concrete wall near U.S. Route 1 in Boynton Beach, Florida. On May 11 “Allah Akbar” with an image of a bomb and “LBK, TX” was painted at a Scurry County Texas rest area off Highway 84 North. The graffiti was noticed on May 11, one week after a failed terrorist attack in Garland, TX where two men were killed by police while they attempted to wage jihad on the Prophet Muhammad cartoon-drawing contest. ISIS took credit for the attack.
What's This?

Many incidents of ISIS graffiti have occurred on or near schools. In Youngstown, Ohio on November 23, 2015, ten days after the Paris attacks, a rock located outside the Kilcawley Center at Youngstown State University, was defaced with messages of support for ISIS: “We are coming,” “France Deserves Destruction,” “YSU supports ISIS” and “Jihad over God ISIS”. Imagery included the black ISIS flag and an upside-down Eiffel Tower peace symbol inverting the meaning. Police also discovered Arabic graffiti written on the walls of the men’s bathroom in Cushwa Hall. The rock is an iconic symbol of the school and is located in the very public heart of the university. Although it obviously took some time to paint, there was no surveillance video with a direct view of the rock. University workers immediately painted the rock white without consideration for evidence. The media focused more on how the college community came together to paint over the rock with messages of world peace and the American Flag than on potential threats at the University. Several reports falsely claimed that the Arabic depicted in the image of the Islamic State flag was misspelled and used that to argue that the graffiti was a hoax. Move along, nothing to see here, no Islamic terrorist sympathizers on this college campus.

Another graffiti incident occurred less than two weeks after the Paris attacks in Jacksonville, Florida. On November 24, 2015 a fence that borders Cedar Mills Elementary School was sprayed painted with the word “ISIS” above Arabic writing. It is not known if the local police were aware that the Arabic writing was in the design of the Seal of the Prophet as depicted in the ISIS Flag. The local police probably did not know since in 2011 the administration purged counter-terrorism training materials blinding law enforcement officers to the threat from Islamic terrorism. On May 31, 2015 “ISIL We R here” was spray painted in black on a brick wall beneath a basketball hoop outside Miller Elementary School in Salem, Oregon. The acronym “ISIL” is specific to the U.S. ISIL is an acronym for Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, representing a geographic area and one translation of the group’s former name. The group has not used that name since June 2014 when it declared the creation of a caliphate and shortened its name to “Islamic State” (IS). The most prevalent Islamic State name depicted in graffiti around the world is ISIS using English language characters. Islamic State graffiti continues to appear in countries around the world attesting to their global presence.

Symbolism is a hallmark of jihadist attacks and graffiti is just one form of jihadist symbolism. Jihadist groups often attempt to strike on anniversaries or commemorative dates that hold symbolic meaning to the organization or in Islamic history. Targets, places and dates such as the anniversary of 9/11 and American holidays such as July 4th are also symbolically significant. The bombing of Russia’s Metrojet on October 31, 2015 is an example of a significant date. Ansar Bayt al-Maqdis, who was responsible for the bombing, formally swore allegiance (Bay’a) to the Islamic State, changing their name to Sinai Province (Wilayat Sinai) on the 17th of Muharram 1436 of the Islamic Calendar [10 November 2014]. The bombing of Russia’s Metrojet occurred on the one year anniversary of their oath of allegiance to the Islamic State on the 17th of Muharram 1437 [31 October 2015].

Last year the media inaccurately reported that the first anniversary of the Islamic State was June 29, 2015. The actual anniversary was on the first day of the month of Ramadan which fell on June 18, 2015. Islam has a moveable calendar and celebrates Islamic holidays on the Islamic calendar and American holidays on the Gregorian calendar. The second anniversary of the Islamic State Caliphate is June 5/6, 2016. The month of Ramadan 2016 begins in the evening of June 5 and ends in the evening of July 5 (dates may vary according to geographic location). Many countries raise their threat level during the holy month of Ramadan because it is seen as a time of victory for Muslim armies and a period when those who are martyred have a greater assurance of a place in paradise. Ramadan which encompasses July 4th in combination with the anniversary of the Islamic State Caliphate signifies a higher threat. Western media and Airport authorities need to stop applying Western rational interpretations to Islamist symbolism and start reading the writing on the wall.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 02:48:40 PM by rangerrebew »
There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty.
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Offline ExFreeper

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #60 on: May 26, 2016, 10:09:56 AM »
Searchers Detect Emergency Signal of EgyptAir Plane

The discovery could lead to the location of the fuselage of the Airbus A320

WSJ - By Tamer El-Ghobashy and Dahlia Kholaif in Cairo and Robert Wall in London

May 26, 2016 8:15 a.m. ET

Egyptian search teams have detected an emergency signal from the wreckage of EgyptAir Flight 804 that could help them locate the aircraft’s fuselage on the floor of the Mediterranean Sea, the lead investigator into the disaster said Thursday.

The discovery of the signal is the biggest breakthrough yet for the Egypt-led search, which so far has been limited to recoveries of small pieces of debris and human remains. The Airbus Group SE A320 plane, bound from Paris to Cairo with 66 passengers and crew aboard, crashed last Thursday.

The investigator, Capt. Ayman Al Moqadem, told Egypt’s flagship state newspaper Al Ahram that the detection of the signal by satellite narrowed the search zone for the main body of the plane to a radius of about 3 miles.

Egyptian officials had said their search was on a 40-mile radius of the Mediterranean.

Emergency locator transmitters similar to the one Egyptian searchers are said to have detected are radio beacons that send a signal to satellites, used to locate plane wreckage or ships in distress.

Passenger jets have emergency locator beacons on their fuselage, which differ from the underwater locator beacons attached to the Airbus A320’s so-called black boxes, the cockpit voice and data recorders that typically provide the most comprehensive flight information. Mr. Moqadem said investigators haven’t located the black boxes.

To aid in the search for the black boxes, Egyptian authorities have retained foreign companies who specialize in marine wreckage searches and whose equipment can survey the depths in the crash area, believed to be around 10,000 feet deep.

France has deployed a ship to the area carrying such instruments. Egypt said Sunday that it also had dispatched a remote-controlled submarine belonging to its petroleum ministry to aid in the search...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/searchers-detect-emergency-signal-of-egyptair-plane-1464264946


Quote
Emergency Locator Transmitters (ELTs)

    ELTs transmit on 121.5/243/406 MHz. (406 MHz contacts a satellite monitoring system. It uplinks the serial No of the Box which the Satellite authority uses to look up the Regulatory authority, who keep a list of serial no's versus tail nos)

    Some ELT's are tied into the Navigation system to uplink last position.

    Many rely on the Satellite system to direction find the signal

    An ELT (due to the frequencies involved) is not able to contact the satellite from underwater. It is also not a waterproofed box.

    The aircraft hull mounted ELTs are typically set up to transmit when a G-load of a particular magnitude is detected (crash)

Sample product sheet (Honeywell; Thales and some other vendors also make products in this class).

FAA Spec TSO-C126A (not sure if an international spec is also in print) DO-204A, DO-160F are cited on some product sheets.

Source:  PPruNer avspook & Lonewolf_50

Clarification per another poster:  The ELT sends the (programmable) ICAO 24-bit address belonging to the aircraft (same as used for Mode S, TCAS, etc). That's sufficient to identify the aircraft without the need to maintain a separate database of unit serial numbers.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 08:14:27 AM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2016, 08:35:11 AM »
No new signal from EgyptAir jet since day of crash as search intensifies

Reuters

No new radio signal has been received from an EgyptAir jet since the day it crashed in the Mediterranean last week, sources close to the investigation said on Friday.

Media reports on Thursday suggested that a new signal had allowed officials to further home in on where the black box recorders might be located.

A radio signal picked up on the day of the crash from the plane's emergency locator transmitter (ELT) allowed officials to determine a broadly defined search zone, but nothing new has since been detected, the sources told Reuters.

"There has been nothing since day one," a source familiar with the investigation said.

Since the Airbus A320 crashed on May 19 with 66 people on board, including 30 Egyptians and 15 from France, no clear picture of its final moments has emerged.

A French vessel carrying specialist probes designed to detect black box pinger signals arrived on Friday at the search zone, sources on the investigation committee said.

The vessel contains equipment from ALSEAMAR, a subsidiary of French industrial group Alcen, that can pick up black-box pinger signals over long distances up to 5 km (3 miles), according to the company's website.

These are separate from the signals transmitted by the ELT, which sends a radio signal upon impact that is not designed to continue emitting once the plane is submerged underwater, said a source familiar with the investigation.

The French vessel will conduct a deepwater search in "four or five" areas within the 5 km search zone believed to contain the two black boxes, with the possibility of expanding the zone should nothing be detected, the source said.

Search teams are working against the clock to recover the two flight recorders that will offer vital clues on the fate of flight 804, because the acoustic signals that help locate them in deep water cease transmitting after about 30 days.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-egyptair-airplane-search-signal-idUSKCN0YI17M



Marine Nationale Hydro. "Laplace" (A793) is sailing to the crash site with two BEA officers, in order to join the search for the CVR/FDR. She also has on board three pinger locators. They are planning to send another vessel equipped with deep sea recovery assets. The Egyptians authorities are still in charge of the search, assisted by the BEA.

Source:  BEA


h/t takata @ PPRuNe

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q7eoLZkVE4" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q7eoLZkVE4</a>



Quote
The Laplace is equipped with three detectors made by the ALSEAMAR company designed to detect and localise signals from the flight recorders, believed to be about 3,000 metres underwater.  France may also send an unmanned submarine and deep-sea retrieval equipment.  ALSEAMAR’s equipment includes three of its DETECTOR-6000 systems, designed to pick up black-box pinger signals over long distances up to 5km, according to the company’s website.

Source:  France 24

Underwater Detection Systems DETECTOR



PMS Burullus appears have gone dark.  French Warship "9014" appears to be on scene.  h/t AT1 @ PPRuNe


Quote
Helicopter Carrier Tonnerre was not dispatched for supporting this operation. So this tag "9104" is more likely given to PHM Jacoubet which is, since May 23, only doing surface sweep and visual researches for debris and they deployed two aircraft, a Falcon 50 and Atlantic 2, in addition to Egyptian and US assets deployed.

See official French Navy media, 28 May situation :
Vol Egyptair : Point de situation au 28 mai | colsbleus.fr : le magazine de la Marine Nationale
http://www.colsbleus.fr/articles/8479

takata @ PPRuNe


« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 12:20:27 PM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2016, 09:10:30 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEdqcrV1TdY" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEdqcrV1TdY</a>


Investigation Progress Report (4) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

CAIRO - 28 May 2016

The investigation committee received satellite reports of the electronic emergency signal that came out of the Emergency Locator Transmitter (ELT); which is equipment that sends automatic signals to satellite in the event of a crash or fall into water. Concerned search units were then informed of the updates recorded by the satellite to intensify searching in that area.

Efforts to search for the data recorders of the A320 continues; including the use of the most advanced search equipment of Alseamar company that was brought aboard the French vessel. The Ministry of Civil aviation has also made agreement with DOS (DEEP OCEAN SEARCH) company for other equipment with high capacity to receive signals and conduct sonar scan, in order to diversify research methods and to carry them out in the shortest time possible.

On the other hand, the investigation committee has started studying the information received from the Greek air traffic control about the accident; more information of the records of the radar that had followed the path of the plane before the accident, is expected to be also received.

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_28_5_16.html



Egypt brings in specialized deep search ship for Egyptair hunt

Chicago Tribune - By Gregory Viscusi,Alan Levin and Andrea Rothman, May 28, 2016

Egyptian authorities hired a deep ocean survey and recovery company to join the hunt for wreckage of the EgyptAir jet that went down over the eastern Mediterranean last week as new satellite evidence emerged to help narrow down the likely crash site.

Egypt's civil aviation ministry signed the agreement on Friday with Deep Ocean Search Ltd., according to a statement from France's air accidents bureau, BEA, which is part of the investigation. A DOS's vessel will join the Laplace, a French Navy ship set to arrive in the area over the weekend and deploying specialist technology to pick up telltale "pings" from the Airbus Group SE A320's black-box flight recorders...

DOS is based in Mauritius, staffed by veterans of the French Navy and has recovered precious metals from a ship sunk in World War II in the mid-Atlantic at a depth of 5,150 meters (about 17,000 feet), the company said on its website. The area where the EgyptAir flight went down is thought to be more than 3,000 meters deep.

The Laplace, named after celebrated French mathematician and astronomer Pierre-Simon Laplace, will carry three Detector 6000 underwater listening systems supplied by the Alseamar unit of Paris-based search specialist Alcen, a veteran of air-crash searches that also works with defense and oil-industry clients. Two officials from the BEA are traveling on the Laplace.

The probes, shaped like torpedoes and dragged beneath the ship, have an "extremely long detection range," according to Alseamar, being able to detect pings from black boxes 5 kilometers away. Egypt said Thursday the deployment of more specialist gear would "help speed up" the search effort.

Among previous projects, Alseamar worked on the recovery of the black boxes from a Flash Airlines Boeing Co. 737 that crashed into the Red Sea shortly after takeoff from Sharm el-Sheikh in 2004, killing all 148 passengers and crew...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-wp-blm-egyptair-025bb63e-24f1-11e6-b944-52f7b1793dae-20160528-story.html


Quote
Concerning MS 804, beside using optical detectors (see Airbus statement), I would add that the smoke warning(s) were triggered several hours after take off. At this point, such warnings would be very unlikely resulting from prior ground contamination of smoke detectors, which is what happen in most cases.

Also, ACARS of MS 804 are reporting two warnings at 0:26 and 0:27 (Lavatory and Avionics), which make it even less likely that they were related to nearly simultaneous faults of two detectors reporting spurious alarms. They are related to different compartiments and systems.

Moreover, both warnings were possibly triggered by cockpit adjacent areas (Lavatory A door is only a few centimenters away from the cockpit door while the avionics bay is right below the cockpit's floor) ; on top of it, the avionics vent system is using cockpit air to refresh both instrument panel and the whole bay, where the avionics smoke detector check the exhaust ducts for particles.

Finally, the two system faults reported at 0:26 and 0:28 are telling something related to the cockpit right windows heating sensors (sliding first, then fixed one) ; both window sensors faulted... but not the right windshield which is also heated by the same WHC-2. Hence, one could think that it wasn't related to the state of WHC-2 in the bay which was still working on the right windshield and triggered no fault on its own. In case of such a single fault reported, one would suspect the sensor first, the computer next and the wiring last. Now, if the computer is not at fault, we are still left with two faults with different wirings, sensors, and circuit breakers...

So far, and without any further evidence, I would rather suspect that those smoke warnings reported were actually real ones ; also, it seems to be more likely due to an external system cause, probably in cockpit, like a sudden surge of temp close to the right sliding windows ; the original event would have to last for at least 1-3 minutes (0:26 to 0:28) in order to trigger the second sensor fault on the fixed right window.

Considering that the investigation is in possession of the full ACARS content, they would have more details on each time stamping; they would also be able to tell if any probable delay happened during the string of ACARS between 0:26 and 0:29. But based on what we have, it's still possible to make some sense out of the first faults reported.

Of course, it's not the only scenario as one could also suspect a more complicated sequence, like a wiring combustion or electrical issue contaminating one and second right window heating system. It's only less likely because it would alert the crew of something wrong (like smell) in the cockpit, and probably well before this point.

Now, looking at any previous report of incident at cruise involving cockpit windows overheating in A320 might be more interesting than spurious smoke warning events, in order to understand if this could make more sense than an external surge of temp in cockpit.

takata @ PPRuNe



UPDATE (May 31, 2016):  PMS Burullus is back on location per AIS Vessel tracking....



« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 04:51:00 PM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2016, 07:28:13 AM »

EgyptAir crash: Signals from deep in Mediterranean Sea 'could be flight MS804's black boxes'

Indepenent - By Lizzie Dearden, June 1, 2016

A ship has picked up signals from believed to emanate from EgyptAir flight 804’s black boxes in the Mediterranean Sea.

The missing flight data recorders hold vital information for officials investigating what caused the plane to crash last month, killing everyone on board.

Egypt’s civil aviation ministry said the Laplace vessel had received signals during searches using sonar equipment.

Officials from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration told The Independent American and European satellites detected distress signals pinpointing the plane’s emergency location transmitter minutes after the Airbus A320 crashed.

The signal was picked up at 2.36am local time on 19 May and transmitted to France’s Mission Control Centre and civil aviation ministry, calculating the location of the crash to be between the Greek island of Crete and Egyptian coast.

Another ship, Deep Ocean Search’s John Lethbridge, will join the search team later this week.

Human remains, plane seats, life jackets and passengers’ luggage are among the items found so far and are being analysed.

The cause of the disaster, which killed all 66 passengers and crew on board the flight from Paris to Cairo, remains unknown.

Officials from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration told The Independent American and European satellites detected distress signals pinpointing the plane’s emergency location transmitter minutes after the Airbus A320 crashed.

The signal was picked up at 2.36am local time on 19 May and transmitted to France’s Mission Control Centre and civil aviation ministry, calculating the location of the crash to be between the Greek island of Crete and Egyptian coast.

Another ship, Deep Ocean Search’s John Lethbridge, will join the search team later this week.

Human remains, plane seats, life jackets and passengers’ luggage are among the items found so far and are being analysed.

The cause of the disaster, which killed all 66 passengers and crew on board the flight from Paris to Cairo, remains unknown.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/egyptair-flight-ms804-crash-latest-black-boxes-found-mediterranean-sea-signals-a7059241.html


Quote
There are now 3 surface vessels located in the area of interest - around 33°30'N 29°10'E; they are the PMS Burullus (Egyptian Offshore Support Vessel), Alnadorah (Tug), and the Laplace (French Navy Hydrographic vessel).

The Laplace arrived on scene over 12 hours ago, and appears to have done a Towed Pinger Locator (TPL) test run; the PMS Burullus is maintaining position nearby, while another vessel a small tug Alnadorah is currently alongside the Laplace.

The search for the ULB's (Underwater Locator Beacons) is about to get underway. The DFDR and the CVR each have an ULB attached to them, and these beacons emit a pulsed Ultrasonic sound wave with a frequency of approximately 37.5kHz. Approximately, because the frequency control parameters are set by resistive/capacitive circuitry, which results in no two beacon's frequency performance being exactly the same as another; handy when identifying multiple beacons in a search area.

With regard to the ELT transmissions received by satellite, there is always the possibility the automated fixed ELT was set to "ON" from the "ARMED" position by actions taken in the cockpit following LOC. This may have given the time needed for the vital positional data to be sent. That being the case, the ULB's will most likely be located relatively quickly [if functioning].

mm43 @ PPRuNe



A Coptic Christian grieves on Sunday during prayers for the departed, remembering the victims of Thursday's crash of EgyptAir Flight 804,
at Al-Boutrossiya Church, the main Coptic Cathedral complex, in Cairo, Egypt.


Investigation Progress Report (5) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

"Cairo, 1st of June 2016

The French vessel “La Place” of the French navy; participating in the search for the two data recorders of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean mid of last month; has received through its search equipment signals from the seabed of the wreckage search area; assumed to be from one of the data recorders.

Extensive search efforts are being carried out to locate the two data recorders in preparation for their retrieval by “JOHN LETHBRIDGE” which is a vessel that belongs to DOS "Deep Ocean Search", which will join the search team within a week."

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_1_6_16.html



Egyptair: No Alerts 24 Hours Before Crash

Lefigaro.fr Publié le 02/06/2016 à 11:21 (English Translation) 

A source close to the investigation into the crash of an EgyptAir Airbus A320 on 19 May in the Mediterranean denied today that a series of alerts was issued by the aircraft in the 24 hours before her disappearance at sea, as reported by the media yesterday in France.

"It is not true, as some have told French media that Acars messages signaling the presence of smoke were sent three successive times during the flights of the plane to Asmara in Eritrea, and Tunis and its from Cairo, "said the investigator. Acars is an embedded communications system that sends regular flight data from the device to the operating company. The radius of the search area flight recorder has been reduced from five to two kilometers after a signal has been detected by a French vessel, the source said.

In Paris, the French Transport Minister Alain Vidal, said this morning that it would take eight days before the black boxes could be retrieved.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2016/06/02/97001-20160602FILWWW00119-egyptair-pas-d-alertes-avant-le-crash-enquete.php


« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 11:29:19 AM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2016, 08:27:56 PM »

Quote
This after a French naval supply vessel picked up signal from one of two recorders on June 1.

http://www.turnto23.com/news/second-specialist-vessel-to-join-egyptair-flight-804-search




Deep-sea robot to join search for Egyptair wreck

Paris - A research vessel with an underwater robot is set to begin searching the Mediterranean "as from Friday" for the wreck of the EgyptAir plane that crashed last month, according to the French aviation safety agency BEA.

Egypt has hired the "John Lethbridge", which is owned by the private Deep Ocean Search company, to comb the ocean floor for the Airbus A320 that went down with 66 people aboard en route from Paris to Cairo on May 19.

The ship is en route and "should arrive in the area as from Friday," BEA director Remi Jouty told reporters.

A French navy vessel using deep-water listening devices picked up signals from one of the black boxes over a week ago, but so far it has failed to locate either it or the second recorder.


"For the moment we are hopeful of managing to locate these recorders while they continue to emit [pings]," Jouty said, acknowledging "we have to be quick".

The the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder have enough battery power to emit signals for four to five weeks.

The area where the plane went down is believed to be about 3 000m deep.


The "John Lethbridge" has a side scan sonar that provides digital images of the seabed, as well as a robot that is capable of diving to 3 000 metres.

Some wreckage was retrieved from the Mediterranean last month, along with belongings of passengers on board flight MS804, but no bodies have been found so far.

The plane crashed between the Greek island of Crete and the Egyptian coast after disappearing suddenly from radar screens.

Investigators have said it is too soon to determine what caused the disaster.

While speculation initially centred on a terror attack, a technical fault has also not been ruled out, with automated messages sent by the plane shortly before its demise indicating smoke in the cabin and a fault in the flight control unit.

The crash took place seven months after the bombing of a Russian airliner over Egypt's restive Sinai Peninsula in October that killed all 224 people on board.

The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for that attack. There has been no such claim over the EgyptAir crash.

http://www.news24.com/Africa/News/deep-sea-robot-to-join-search-for-egyptair-wreck-20160609

« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 08:31:24 PM by ExFreeper »
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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2016, 08:36:24 PM »
10,000 feet deep in the area along with a really funky bottom profile in a geologically active area of the planet.  It will take time to find, but they'll get those recorders.

Hell of a job.


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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2016, 07:58:11 AM »

Investigation Progress Report (7) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

 Cairo, 13th of June 2016

Investigation Progress Report (7) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

The Egyptian Armed Forces Investigation Committee received Radar images of the A320 route before its crash; which identified that the aircraft swerved to the left  then turned right for a full circle. This comes in accordance with the British and Greek radar images; however investigation cannot count merely on such information.

Manufacturers of the flight data recorders stated that signals will continue to come out of the so-called black boxes till the 24th of June 2016.

The investigation committee has approved the request of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) to assign one of its approved representatives to join the investigation team as the Unites States of America is the engine manufacturer; in addition to an expert of the flight recorders manufacturing company.

It is worth mentioning that search vessel “La Place” and the search and retrieval vessel “JOHN LETHBRIDGE”; are carrying out their mission at the wreckage designated area.

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_14_6_16.html



EgyptAir crash: Wreckage found in Mediterranean

Wreckage of the EgyptAir flight that went missing over the Mediterranean last month has been found, Egyptian investigators say.

A statement said "several main locations of the wreckage" had been identified.

A deep sea search vessel had also sent back the first images of the wreckage, the statement added.

There were 66 people on board flight MS804 when it crashed on 19 May while flying from Paris to Cairo.

The Airbus A320 plane vanished from Greek and Egyptian radar screens, apparently without having sent a distress call.

The Egyptian investigation committee said that investigators on board the John Lethbridge search vessel, which has been contracted by the Egyptian government, would now draw up a map of the wreckage distribution.

What happens next, by Richard Westcott, BBC Transport Correspondent @bbcwestcott

Investigators will begin with something they call "the four corners". It means that, before touching anything, they will map exactly where every single piece of the aircraft ended up.

If debris is spread over a large area it tells them the plane broke up in mid-air. If it is more intact, it suggests it hit the water then broke up.

They will also look for what is missing. If, for example, an engine or the tail is two miles away, it clearly broke off earlier in the flight.

The little evidence so far suggests a fire broke out in the front of the aircraft, so they will be keen to film and photograph that area. One experienced investigator who worked on the Lockerbie bombing told me bomb damage looks very different to fire damage.

Ultimately, investigators will probably have to retrieve wreckage to know for sure what brought this plane down. And that could take weeks, even months.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36543969



"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - Milton Friedman

Offline Chieftain

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2016, 11:46:30 PM »
Word is they have recovered the Cockpit Voice Recorder, so there should be some definitive information soon.  I would imagine that the FDR discovery is probably imminent...


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Offline ExFreeper

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2016, 07:51:33 AM »

Official Egyptian update (10)

Cairo,17th of June 2016

After the success in retrieving the CVR of the doomed A320; John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government; has managed to retrieve the second black box which is the FDR. The FDR was also retrieved in several stages but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder. Immediately the General Prosecution was notified that the second data recorder was also found and accordingly issued its decision to hand over the 2 data recorders to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations. Transfer process of the 2 data recorders from the vessel to Alexandria is under process; which will be received by members from the General Prosecution and the Investigation Committee. 17/06/2016

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EgyptAir crash: Second flight recorder recovered

The flight data recorder from the EgyptAir plane that crashed in the Mediterranean Sea last month has been retrieved, Egyptian investigators say.

The news comes a day after search teams recovered the cockpit voice recorder from the wreckage of Flight MS804.

Both recorders, known as the "black boxes", are crucial to discovering why the Airbus A320 came down on 19 May, killing all 66 people on board.

The plane was flying from Paris to Cairo when it vanished from radar.

The Egyptian investigation committee said in a statement on Friday that the data recorder had been "retrieved in several pieces" by one of the specialist vessels searching for the wreckage, which was located on Wednesday.

The data recorder is usually located in the plane's tail along with the voice recorder, which had to be salvaged in stages on Thursday because it was extensively damaged.

The cause of the crash remains a mystery.

A terrorist attack has not been ruled out but no group has claimed it downed the plane.

Analysts say human or technical error is also a possibility. Electronic messages sent by the plane revealed that smoke detectors went off in the toilet and the aircraft's electrics, minutes before the plane's signal was lost.

According to Greek investigators, the plane turned 90 degrees left and then 360 degrees to the right, dropping from 11,300m (37,000ft) to 4,600m (15,000ft) and then 3,000m (10,000ft) before it was lost from radar.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36557134

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Investigation Progress Report (9) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

Cairo, 16th of June 2016

John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Govt; to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month; had found the CVR. The CVR was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder. The General Prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations. Transfer process of the CVR from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.

(Note: text unchanged apart from shortening to CVR - what they probably mean is that the CVR was in 3-4 pieces ('tray', 'power', memory module component, 'pinger') and that they have recovered the component containing the memory module. If the damage is not too much then they will read it in Cairo, if too much then the module will be sent to the manufacturer of the CVR.) A0283 @ PPruNe

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French BEA communiqué today: CVR retrieved, BEA inspector dispatched to Cairo


BEA is announcing that one of their inspectors is moving to Cairo on 17 June to bring in BEA's expertise in the reading out of the CVR.

"Accident de l'Airbus A320, immatriculé SU-GCC et exploité par Egyptair, survenu le 19/05/2016 au large des côtes égyptiennes [Enquête menée par AIB / Egypte] - information du 16/06/2016 16H30

Les autorités égyptiennes ont publié le 16/06/16 un point de situation indiquant la découverte et la remontée de l'enregistreur de vol phonique (CVR - Cockpit Voice Recorder). Un enquêteur du BEA se rendra au Caire le 17/06/16 afin d'apporter notre expertise technique à la lecture de l'enregistreur.

Point de situation n° 9 publié par les autorités égyptiennes :

"Cairo, 16th of June 2016

John Lethbridge, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government; to join the search for the wreckage of the A320 that was downed in the Mediterranean last month; had found the Cockpit voice recorder.

The Cockpit voice recorder was retrieved in several stages as it was damaged but the vessel equipment managed to pick up the memory unit; which is considered as the most important part of the above-mentioned recorder.

The General prosecution was then notified and accordingly issued its decision to hand it over to the technical investigation committee to carry out analysis and unload the voice conversations.

Transfer process of the Cockpit voice recorder from the vessel to Alexandria is under process then it will be received by members from the general prosecution and the investigation committee.""

https://www.bea.aero/index.php?id=11...communique=278

« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 09:27:35 AM by ExFreeper »
"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - Milton Friedman

Offline ExFreeper

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Re: EgyptAir Flight Disappears From Radar
« Reply #70 on: June 18, 2016, 08:53:10 AM »


Investigation Progress Report (12) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

Cairo, 19th of June 2016

On Saturday the 18th of June; the investigation committee started the process of inspecting parts of both CVR and FDR, the approved representative of France and his consulting experts witnessed this process. Whereas approved Representative and consultants from the US as the engine manufacturer also joined the investigation committee.

Memory units of both recorders were removed at the labs of the Central Department for Aircraft Investigation at the Ministry of Civil Aviation as a preparation to start the drying stage which was conducted at the Technical Research Center of the Armed Forces using modern high-Tech drying ovens. The drying stage took 8 consecutive hours and it was made in attendance of members of the investigation committee, and the adviser to the approved representative of France, who has a wide expertise in dealing with the plane recorders. Electrical tests of memory units of the recorders are in progress which will be followed by the data unloading phase.

It is worth mentioning that John Lethbrige, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government to join the search for the plane wreckage, is proceeding its tasks of drawing a map of the wreckage distribution at the bottom of the Mediterranean.

Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee






Investigation Progress Report (13) by the Egyptian Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee

Cairo, 22nd of June 2016

The investigation committee is conducting thorough inspection and tests on the electronic boards of both the Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) and the Flight Data Recorder (FDR) of the doomed A320 in order to start the uploading process of the data. Approved representatives and consultants from France and the United States of America, are also witnessing these processes.

Inspection and removal of salt accumulations for more than 200 electrical circuits are undergoing to determine the circuit that does not function properly in order to reach accurate reading of the memory units of the recorders.

It is worth mentioning that John Lethbrige, the vessel contracted by the Egyptian Government to join the search for the plane wreckage, is proceeding its tasks of drawing a map of the wreckage distribution at the bottom of the Mediterranean; which lead up to retrieving them in a later stage.

http://www.civilaviation.gov.eg/News/news%20pages%20ar/messs_22_6_16.html




« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 08:14:44 AM by ExFreeper »
"A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself." - Milton Friedman


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