Author Topic: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre  (Read 421006 times)

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Offline Snarknado

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2275 on: January 25, 2020, 01:59:25 am »
I finally watched the 4 Expanse seasons this month. I can't give it much more than an OK, mostly based on what seems to me to be a pretty weak main cast. Alex and Bobbie are growing on me but I would never have pictured Holden as some guy who looks like a retread from a CW show. One bright spot was Cara Gee's wonderful portrayal of Drummer, and Bobbie's New Zealand accent has kind of an oddball charm. But all in all, after reading the books, watching the show seemed like a borderline waste of time.

Another thing worth mentioning though is 4 seasons of a contemporary TV show without a gay sex scene - that must be some kind of record. In fact no gratuitous sex at all, just the bare minimum to conform to Holden's portrayal in the books. Especially commendable when producers know that no gay sex is an outright disqualifier for Emmy consideration. (Elizabeth Mitchell's character was gay, but nothing like the usual in-your-face garbage that so many shows are hammering us with these days).
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2276 on: January 25, 2020, 02:45:54 am »
I finally watched the 4 Expanse seasons this month. I can't give it much more than an OK, mostly based on what seems to me to be a pretty weak main cast. Alex and Bobbie are growing on me but I would never have pictured Holden as some guy who looks like a retread from a CW show. One bright spot was Cara Gee's wonderful portrayal of Drummer, and Bobbie's New Zealand accent has kind of an oddball charm. But all in all, after reading the books, watching the show seemed like a borderline waste of time.

Another thing worth mentioning though is 4 seasons of a contemporary TV show without a gay sex scene - that must be some kind of record. In fact no gratuitous sex at all, just the bare minimum to conform to Holden's portrayal in the books. Especially commendable when producers know that no gay sex is an outright disqualifier for Emmy consideration. (Elizabeth Mitchell's character was gay, but nothing like the usual in-your-face garbage that so many shows are hammering us with these days).


Plus not showing the UN in a positive light as well.
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Offline Snarknado

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2277 on: January 25, 2020, 01:10:12 pm »

Plus not showing the UN in a positive light as well.

Good point, and it's neutral toward religion, realistically characterizes Earth's "basic income" as glorified welfare, and de-politicizes the loaded term "undocumented" to refer to people who manage to escape from the control of the nanny state.

I suspect the authors may have taken steps to make sure the TV producers didn't try to inject the show with any Hollywood "values".

Edit> One other thing - the books strictly adhered to the realities of gravity,  Coriolis effects, acceleration and communications lag. They get glossed over in the show, though I suppose with good reason. (Even in the books, it seemed like Earthers should be able to withstand hard burns better than Martians or Belters.)

And in the books, wasn't the Nauvoo already loaded with farming soil and structures, with the artificial sun running down the middle of the cylinder? They just show it as a metal tube, nowhere near as large as it should be, and not rotating fast enough to produce Earth-like gravity..
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 01:36:04 pm by Snarknado »
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2278 on: January 25, 2020, 03:48:40 pm »
Good point, and it's neutral toward religion, realistically characterizes Earth's "basic income" as glorified welfare, and de-politicizes the loaded term "undocumented" to refer to people who manage to escape from the control of the nanny state.

I suspect the authors may have taken steps to make sure the TV producers didn't try to inject the show with any Hollywood "values".

Edit> One other thing - the books strictly adhered to the realities of gravity,  Coriolis effects, acceleration and communications lag. They get glossed over in the show, though I suppose with good reason. (Even in the books, it seemed like Earthers should be able to withstand hard burns better than Martians or Belters.)

And in the books, wasn't the Nauvoo already loaded with farming soil and structures, with the artificial sun running down the middle of the cylinder? They just show it as a metal tube, nowhere near as large as it should be, and not rotating fast enough to produce Earth-like gravity..


I think that was the approach and it was a good one. Knowing full well that people on both sides of the politcial side do watch SciFi.


I think it would have cost to show all of the effects. Yes the TV version did show the realities of space travel and apprecaite it. Sometimes I like to take a break from shows like Star Trek.


As for the Nauvoo, I don't know I didn't read the books. I guess I should have.
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Offline Snarknado

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2279 on: January 25, 2020, 05:47:45 pm »
I found a couple of interesting passages in my Abaddon's Gate notes:

The Rocinante was shaped like a stubby black wedge of metal; a fat chisel laid on its side. The flat surface of the hull was occasionally broken up by a domed projection. [I guess that design didn't play well on TV?]

When the orbits were right, the journey from Luna to Mars could take as little as twelve days. The trek from Saturn to Ceres, a few months. [So Ceres orbits at 2.8AU, Saturn at 9.5AU. Uranus is another 9.5AU out and the ring gate beyond that. The TV show doesn't give you much of a sense of the time or accelleration/deceleration hardships of navigating the solar system.]

It (Nauvoo) was so big, so extravagant. It was like a rebellious shout at the emptiness of space. The universe is too big for our ship to move through it in a reasonable time? Fine, we’ll stuff all the bits of the universe we need inside of our ship and then go at our own pace. The inner walls of the rotating drum curved up in the distance, Coriolis effect masquerading as mass, metal ribbing and plates pretending to be substrate, just waiting for soil and plants and farm animals. Through the center of the drum, half a kilometer over Anna’s head, a narrow thread of bright yellow light shone down on them all. [So radius half a km and somewhere the length is mentioned as 2+ km. No soil yet, and I didn't find the intended "gravity" but I thought it was supposed to be near 1g so the settlers' bodies wouldn't be severely weakened by 100 years in low-g.]
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Offline 240B

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2280 on: February 03, 2020, 12:12:21 am »
Watched the first episode of 'Picard' on AP.
I was unimpressed. It is a total deviation from normal Star Trek.
Set on Earth, with Picard acting as a kind of Sci-Fi Detective or something like that.
Picard, who looks really old, is a kind of futuristic Columbo.
Did not pay for the second episode. It didn't grab me.
Still, I would probably sit through it if it was free.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline verga

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2281 on: February 03, 2020, 09:55:36 am »
Watched the first episode of 'Picard' on AP.
I was unimpressed. It is a total deviation from normal Star Trek.
Set on Earth, with Picard acting as a kind of Sci-Fi Detective or something like that.
Picard, who looks really old, is a kind of futuristic Columbo.
Did not pay for the second episode. It didn't grab me.
Still, I would probably sit through it if it was free.
Saw an interview that he was going to use it as an anti-Trump vehicle. Not going to give him a dime.
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If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline 240B

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2282 on: February 03, 2020, 10:58:02 am »
Saw an interview that he was going to use it as an anti-Trump vehicle. Not going to give him a dime.
Nope. I broke down and watched the first and second episode and there is nothing politically relevant in episode one or two. Granted it is banal, like watching a Nancy Drew mystery except with a very old man, but I saw nothing resembling American politics at all, on either side Dem or Pub.

Funny thing is they are replaying the last episode of Next Generation 'All Good Things' in some ways. It's the exact same scenario in the sense that Picard has retired to his vineyard as he did before but now suddenly he has to call on old friends because, 'He needs a Ship, dammit! For an emergency mission!' It really is the same thing.

But rest assured @verga , so far it has not been political in any way. Mediocre yes. Political no. Maybe it will get better as the plot progresses.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline verga

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2283 on: February 03, 2020, 12:41:38 pm »
Nope. I broke down and watched the first and second episode and there is nothing politically relevant in episode one or two. Granted it is banal, like watching a Nancy Drew mystery except with a very old man, but I saw nothing resembling American politics at all, on either side Dem or Pub.

Funny thing is they are replaying the last episode of Next Generation 'All Good Things' in some ways. It's the exact same scenario in the sense that Picard has retired to his vineyard as he did before but now suddenly he has to call on old friends because, 'He needs a Ship, dammit! For an emergency mission!' It really is the same thing.

But rest assured @verga , so far it has not been political in any way. Mediocre yes. Political no. Maybe it will get better as the plot progresses.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/star-trek-picard-with-its-refugee-crisis-and-anti-trump-messaging-may-be-the-most-political-show-on-tv
https://www.dailywire.com/news/sir-patrick-stewart-says-new-star-trek-series-will-take-on-trump-brexit
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/8/patrick-stewart-promotes-star-trek-picard-by-urgin/
I am taking him at his word.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline 240B

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2284 on: February 03, 2020, 01:02:06 pm »
https://www.thedailybeast.com/star-trek-picard-with-its-refugee-crisis-and-anti-trump-messaging-may-be-the-most-political-show-on-tv
https://www.dailywire.com/news/sir-patrick-stewart-says-new-star-trek-series-will-take-on-trump-brexit
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jan/8/patrick-stewart-promotes-star-trek-picard-by-urgin/
I am taking him at his word.
Nope. It is simply not there. Maybe Patrick Stewart interprets the show in a way that is pro-immigration and anti-Trump/anti-Brexit, if that is his perspective, but I simply did not see anything like that. There are only two episodes released so far. If what he says is true, I think it is just propaganda hype to boost the show, then it must be coming in other episodes down the line. Again, this could all just be virtue-signalling hype as in to sell a book or boost the ratings of the series.

Please @verga , buck up and watch the first episode. It is free and it will not hurt you in any way. I am asking this of you because maybe you will see things which I do not see and can explain it to me. The first two episodes at least have nothing at all to do with politics today. As far I can tell it is just an average rather bland rehashed science fiction story like dozens or hundreds which have come before it.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline verga

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2285 on: February 03, 2020, 01:25:30 pm »
Nope. It is simply not there. Maybe Patrick Stewart interprets the show in a way that is pro-immigration and anti-Trump/anti-Brexit, if that is his perspective, but I simply did not see anything like that. There are only two episodes released so far. If what he says is true, I think it is just propaganda hype to boost the show, then it must be coming in other episodes down the line. Again, this could all just be virtue-signalling hype as in to sell a book or boost the ratings of the series.

Please @verga , buck up and watch the first episode. It is free and it will not hurt you in any way. I am asking this of you because maybe you will see things which I do not see and can explain it to me. The first two episodes at least have nothing at all to do with politics today. As far I can tell it is just an average rather bland rehashed science fiction story like dozens or hundreds which have come before it.
I will try to check it out.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline verga

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2286 on: February 05, 2020, 12:25:11 pm »
Nope. It is simply not there. Maybe Patrick Stewart interprets the show in a way that is pro-immigration and anti-Trump/anti-Brexit, if that is his perspective, but I simply did not see anything like that. There are only two episodes released so far. If what he says is true, I think it is just propaganda hype to boost the show, then it must be coming in other episodes down the line. Again, this could all just be virtue-signalling hype as in to sell a book or boost the ratings of the series.

Please @verga , buck up and watch the first episode. It is free and it will not hurt you in any way. I am asking this of you because maybe you will see things which I do not see and can explain it to me. The first two episodes at least have nothing at all to do with politics today. As far I can tell it is just an average rather bland rehashed science fiction story like dozens or hundreds which have come before it.
Yeah it was definitely THERE! In big red letters with flashing lights. The Romulan star going supernova and him stepping in (initially) against orders to save "Life". The government shutting the operation down shen there was a small rogue element acting in a criminal manner. The creation of synthetics being halted for the same reason. Allowing "research", but no new development. Essentially the government had created "walls" to keep out anything that was remotely different. The Romulans working on his vineyard had to stay in the shadows in subservient positions to not stir the pot. Then the Rogue Romulans attacking the synthetic showing that the government was right to stop them from being brought in.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline 240B

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2287 on: February 06, 2020, 11:15:32 pm »
Yeah it was definitely THERE! In big red letters with flashing lights. The Romulan star going supernova and him stepping in (initially) against orders to save "Life". The government shutting the operation down shen there was a small rogue element acting in a criminal manner. The creation of synthetics being halted for the same reason. Allowing "research", but no new development. Essentially the government had created "walls" to keep out anything that was remotely different. The Romulans working on his vineyard had to stay in the shadows in subservient positions to not stir the pot. Then the Rogue Romulans attacking the synthetic showing that the government was right to stop them from being brought in.
@verga
All true. But if a political message was their intent, it was certainly subtle.
There are very many Star Trek episodes (original and next generation) which have an overt and obvious political message.
When Star Trek goes political, they tend to put it 'in your face' and shove it down your throat.
Usually you do not have to 'interpret' the politics in ST. But yes, I did understand your point of view.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline verga

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2288 on: February 07, 2020, 02:03:34 am »
@verga
All true. But if a political message was their intent, it was certainly subtle.
There are very many Star Trek episodes (original and next generation) which have an overt and obvious political message.
When Star Trek goes political, they tend to put it 'in your face' and shove it down your throat.
Usually you do not have to 'interpret' the politics in ST. But yes, I did understand your point of view.
Given the political climate, I think they intentionally went for the more subtle approach. Eventually I can se them stepping it up a notch.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2289 on: February 07, 2020, 06:11:08 am »
Given the political climate, I think they intentionally went for the more subtle approach. Eventually I can se them stepping it up a notch.

@verga

I never did understand why Star Trek was so popular. Besides the PC crap,the character were cartoon characters,the sets looked like they might have cost dozens of dollars,and the acting and writing pretty much sucked.

As for the acting,Shatner should have stuck with singing.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2290 on: February 07, 2020, 06:25:20 am »
@verga

I never did understand why Star Trek was so popular. Besides the PC crap,the character were cartoon characters,the sets looked like they might have cost dozens of dollars,and the acting and writing pretty much sucked.

As for the acting,Shatner should have stuck with singing.

I enjoy Star Trek, and Sci- Fi, in general, but you are right that this franchise  has slowly and carefully force fed us SJW themes. 
Even Roddenberry early on, gave us Orion Slave Girls....   What do you think the odds are that those ladies show up in any new episodes.

As far as the set, you are right about the Original, but subsequent efforts were pretty ground breaking in their effects.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2291 on: February 07, 2020, 04:17:03 pm »


As far as the set, you are right about the Original, but subsequent efforts were pretty ground breaking in their effects.

@catfish1957

I'll take your word for that one. I watched a few of the early shows,and quickly decided I had better things to do with my time. Don't recall what,but pretty much anything was better.

Then again,it aired in the afternoons where I lived,and I had better things to do when the sun was out than watch tv. Given how badly network tv sucked back then,I may well have given it a better shot if it had came on at 9 pm on a Wednesday night.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 04:18:21 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline Snarknado

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2292 on: February 07, 2020, 05:55:21 pm »
@catfish1957

I'll take your word for that one. I watched a few of the early shows,and quickly decided I had better things to do with my time. Don't recall what,but pretty much anything was better.

Then again,it aired in the afternoons where I lived,and I had better things to do when the sun was out than watch tv. Given how badly network tv sucked back then,I may well have given it a better shot if it had came on at 9 pm on a Wednesday night.

Network TV was worse back then than it is today? Didn't they have Hawaii five-O, Magnum, McGyver? Oh, wait...

I've watched some old comedies like Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Newhart and they're still funnier than anything on today (maybe not for people who get a laugh out of gay sex).
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2293 on: February 07, 2020, 06:04:48 pm »
Network TV was worse back then than it is today? Didn't they have Hawaii five-O, Magnum, McGyver? Oh, wait...

I've watched some old comedies like Mary Tyler Moore and Bob Newhart and they're still funnier than anything on today (maybe not for people who get a laugh out of gay sex).

Maybe one of the funniest 2 minutes in TV history.....


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Offline Snarknado

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2294 on: February 07, 2020, 06:35:27 pm »
Good clip - Newhart was the undisputed champion of timing and body language. Remember the one where he was desperately trying to think what to say to comfort a patient in distress and all he could come up with were song lyrics?
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2295 on: February 07, 2020, 10:02:56 pm »
Maybe one of the funniest 2 minutes in TV history.....


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@catfish1957

My favorites were Grouch and "You bet your life",and The Carol Burnett Show. Tim Conway and Harvey Korman were hysterical.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2296 on: February 07, 2020, 10:52:10 pm »
@catfish1957

My favorites were Grouch and "You bet your life",and The Carol Burnett Show. Tim Conway and Harvey Korman were hysterical.
I still laugh out loud at Tim Conway's Dentist skit.
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Offline Snarknado

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2297 on: February 07, 2020, 11:08:12 pm »
Throw in Laugh in, Smothers Brothers - I'd have to say that any one of those shows put network TV back then far ahead of today. Last Man Standing is probably the only one that deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as those oldies.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2298 on: February 08, 2020, 02:32:38 am »
@Smokin Joe  @catfish1957  @Snarknado

I still get shows like The Twilight Zone,Carol Burnett,Alfred Hitchcock presents,The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson,and similar period shows with my TV antenna for free. Mine is a RCA HD antenna that I got from Amazon for 43 bucks including shipping,and it pulls in 43 channels. Damn thing is tiny too,and only weighs 4 lbs. I only got 5 channels with my old antenna.

I can even record them with my digital Channel Master recorder.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: The Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Spy, and Superhero Genre
« Reply #2299 on: February 12, 2020, 06:35:58 pm »
I still laugh out loud at Tim Conway's Dentist skit.
Since Tim is no longer with us, Perhaps Biden could fill in.

Or maybe he is already auditioning for the job?
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