Cruz, Kasich coordinate in new anti-Trump effort

[AnybodyButaDem]

Reagan got Democrats with zero help from social media, cable news channels, or a cult of personality. He attracted democrats because he talked of smaller government, a better economy, and respect again on the world stage.   

I don't recall that being part of his platform.  He did talk tough about the USSR and Iran, though, while Carter was doing the "respect again on the world stage" act that Obama and every other Democrat I can remember has used on the stump.

[Mesaclone]

Reagan got Democrats with zero help from social media, cable news channels, or a cult of personality. He attracted democrats because he talked of smaller government, a better economy, and respect again on the world stage.   

Huh. He sounds just like Trump.

[sinkspur]

Wow...lets both place $1000 dollar bet on that...the admins can hold both our funds. OR.....you could go look at the RCP poll averages like I told you to do and see that you are completely wrong if you think New York is the only state Trump has outperformed his polls.

That said, I told you my data source...lets hear what yours is for determining that New York is the ONLY state Trump has beaten the polling averages.

I double dog dare ya!

As for the GW Poll being an outlier...not only do you NOT know that, nobody knows that. Until there is more polling AFTER the GW's result to compare with it, there is no way to statistically determine its outlier...or not outlier...status. I think perhaps you don't really understand how polling and statistics work at the basic level.

I checked.  You were wrong. Trump underperforms his polls, consistently.

Wanna bet that GW is an outlier?  I know EXACTLY how polling works,and GW is an outlier against every other poll before it in the last six weeks. It's reminiscent of that silly AFP poll that had Trump up five points three days before the Wisconsin vote.

[Fantom]

Reagan got a lot of support from democrats, too. And if you think Cruz goes over well in California, you are deluded.

Here is California:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/ca/california_republican_presidential_primary-5322.html

Three polls all LV. Most recent lead is 27 points, smallest lead is 7 points. "Most likely outcome" Trump win.

Ah, polls ..not results.

Ok, if that makes you feel better.  I am glad for you. However...Oklahoma,Kansas,Maine,Wisconsin....... all places Ted beat the polls by double digits.

Likewise, enjoy tomorrow.... because you will not like the next month. And then Cali.. we shaw see what your polls look like then.

[Mesaclone]

I checked.  You were wrong. Trump underperforms his polls, consistently.

Wanna bet that GW is an outlier?  I know EXACTLY how polling works,and GW is an outlier against every other poll before it in the last six weeks. It's reminiscent of that silly AFP poll that had Trump up five points three days before the Wisconsin vote.

 

You said that Trump underperformed the polls in every state but New York.

Let's start with Alabama, to contradict your baloney assertion. See link: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/al/alabama_republican_presidential_primary-5676.html

As you can see if you follow the link, that ONE state contradicts your off the cuff garbage about underperforming "everywhere but New York". There's another 11 where that came from...and a series of others in which the polls were nearly spot on. So if you have data to contradict this, lets see it.

[NavyCanDo]

I don't recall that being part of his platform.  He did talk tough about the USSR and Iran, though, while Carter was doing the "respect again on the world stage" act that Obama and every other Democrat I can remember has used on the stump.

You don't remember him saying "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."? 
You don't remember him asking, "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"
You don't remember the shining city on a hill speech?

All this and more attracted conservative democrats.

Again without the help of the social media, cable news, and a cult of personality.

[AnybodyButaDem]

You don't remember him saying "Government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem."? 
You don't remember him asking, "Are you better off than you were four years ago?"
You don't remember the shining city on a hill speech?

All this and more attracted conservative democrats.

Again without the help of the social media, cable news, and a cult of personality.

Yeah I agree, Trump sounds more like him than any other GOP candidate.  Wile E. Cruz-yote is too busy defending his CO Heist than actually getting his message out these days.  He and Kasich are Tweedledum and Tweedledumber at this point to all but their blind followers. 

It's OVER.  Even if one of them somehow sneaks away with the nomination, they have insulted so many GOP voters that they may as well just campaign for Hillary after the convention. 

[Reaganite Republican]

I was just reading that RUBIO is close to the Cruz Kasich deal... and so are his 171 delegates

http://nypost.com/2016/04/25/is-marco-rubio-the-key-to-donald-trumps-demise/

[Jazzhead]

It's OVER.  Even if one of them somehow sneaks away with the nomination, they have insulted so many GOP voters that they may as well just campaign for Hillary after the convention.

So if it's Cruz or Kasich, you're voting for Hillary?  Thanks for the clarification. 

[Bill Cipher]

Yeah I agree, Trump sounds more like him than any other GOP candidate.  Wile E. Cruz-yote is too busy defending his CO Heist than actually getting his message out these days.  He and Kasich are Tweedledum and Tweedledumber at this point to all but their blind followers. 

It's OVER.  Even if one of them somehow sneaks away with the nomination, they have insulted so many GOP voters that they may as well just campaign for Hillary after the convention. 

It ain't over til it's over, and those who say otherwise sound like they're pitching propaganda to try and save a flailing, failing, candidacy by trying to buffalo the rest of us into supporting STrump out of fear. 

To which I say: never means never.  If you want to get Clinton elected, then by all means continue pimping STrump because it should be crystal clear even now that he will lose, and lose big, to her.  Which is pathetic and deplorable considering that she has so many negatives this should have been a cakewalk for the GOP.  Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. 

[Mesaclone]

It ain't over til it's over, and those who say otherwise sound like they're pitching propaganda to try and save a flailing, failing, candidacy by trying to buffalo the rest of us into supporting Cruz out of fear. 

To which I say: never means never.  If you want to get Clinton elected, then by all means continue pimping Cruz because it should be crystal clear even now that he will lose, and lose big, to her.  Which is pathetic and deplorable considering that she has so many negatives this should have been a cakewalk for the GOP.  Talk about snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Fixed it for you, and you're welcome! You really only had one major edit needed to make your statement accurate. By the end of the day next Tuesday, she'll stand up and belt out the full opera in Indianapolis!

And while I'll agree that its not quite over, by the end of the day to day you'll start hearing the Fat Lady warming up.

[Mesaclone]

I was just reading that RUBIO is close to the Cruz Kasich deal... and so are his 171 delegates

http://nypost.com/2016/04/25/is-marco-rubio-the-key-to-donald-trumps-demise/

I read your full linked article. Nothing in there mentions any kind of Rubio alliance with the Cruz-Kasich cabal. All it mentions is that "a GOP strategist who was once a Rubio supporter (not part of the campaign), helped facilitate the Cruz-Kasich deal.

So where are you getting that Rubio is "close" to a Cruz-Kasich deal? You certainly didn't find it in that article.

If you look around a bit more, you'll actually find more suggestions that a Trump-Rubio ticket is being whispered about behind closed doors...there's no room for three men in a Pres-Viceprez alliance so a Cruz-Kasich alliance leaves Rubio as the odd man out.

[Free Vulcan]

Fixed it for you, and you're welcome! You really only had one major edit needed to make your statement accurate. By the end of the day next Tuesday, she'll stand up and belt out the full opera in Indianapolis!

And while I'll agree that its not quite over, by the end of the day to day you'll start hearing the Fat Lady warming up.

You realize that there's only about 100 bound delegates being awarded tonite don't you? Even if Trump gets them all of them, which he won't, he's still 300 short of the nom at the end of the nite.

But by all means, carry on with the chest thumping, bicep flexing, member swinging, testosterone swagga parade.

[AnybodyButaDem]

So if it's Cruz or Kasich, you're voting for Hillary?  Thanks for the clarification.

Not at all that I said.  Please learn to read for comprehension and stop putting words in my mouth.

You're the only one I know of here who will cast a vote for Clinton.

[AnybodyButaDem]

You realize that there's only about 100 bound delegates being awarded tonite don't you? Even if Trump gets them all of them, which he won't, he's still 300 short of the nom at the end of the nite.

But by all means, carry on with the chest thumping, bicep flexing, member swinging, testosterone swagga parade.

If Trump wins 35 states and doesn't get the nomination because of unbound delegates, we may as well cancel the November election because you anti-Trumps have scorched the earth so badly with your undemocratic process, you won't be able to beg enough GOP voters to the polls to elect Wile E. Cruz-yote.

[Free Vulcan]

If Trump wins 35 states and doesn't get the nomination because of unbound delegates, we may as well cancel the November election because you anti-Trumps have scorched the earth so badly with your undemocratic process, you won't be able to beg enough GOP voters to the polls to elect Wile E. Cruz-yote.

We aren't a democracy, we are a representative republic. Furthermore, party noms are private processes, not govt, and they can conduct them as they please.

Trump knew the rules from the get go and he can't play ball because he can't lead and he can't organize. He thinks he's entitled to get the nod, and enforce it with pitchfork mobs, but Cruz is eating his lunch.

He better hope he gets his 1237, because if Mr. Yuge Winning can't, he's toast.

[Bill Cipher]

Fixed it for you, and you're welcome! You really only had one major edit needed to make your statement accurate.

And while I'll agree that its not quite over, by the end of the day to day you'll start hearing the Fat Lady warming up.

All you've done is demonstrate your own hypocrisy.  And just remember, "never" means never.  The GOP primary voters do not constitute the general electorate, which latter is what matters, and amongst them Trump does the worst.  Look around this forum and see how many intelligent, thoughtful, committed GOP voters have already said they will not vote for Trump, ever.  Then think long and hard about why that is, and what that should be telling you, then decide if you really want to nominate a dead end candidate like Trump who is simply incapable of winning the general election.

[Bill Cipher]

If Trump wins 35 states and doesn't get the nomination because of unbound delegates, we may as well cancel the November election because you anti-Trumps have scorched the earth so badly with your undemocratic process, you won't be able to beg enough GOP voters to the polls to elect Wile E. Cruz-yote.

Fascinating.  So following the rules that were in place long, long before Trump was a glimmer in anyone's eyes is undemocratic?  If Trump loses the unbound delegates that's his own damned fault because he has singularly failed to participate in the process of picking them.  Just because Dinnie is a failure doesn't make the process he failed to follow undemocratic. 

[Mesaclone]

We aren't a democracy, we are a representative republic. Furthermore, party noms are private processes, not govt, and they can conduct them as they please.

Trump knew the rules from the get go and he can't play ball because he can't lead and he can't organize. He thinks he's entitled to get the nod, and enforce it with pitchfork mobs, but Cruz is eating his lunch.

He better hope he gets his 1237, because if Mr. Yuge Winning can't, he's toast.

We are a Republic, and everyone here is fully aware of that. So your point is rather petty and irrelevant. The man said undemocratic process...and yes, this nation philosophically is all about that process. When party uses a Byzantine, insider friendly process, that is DESIGNED to override the choices voters have made...that is grotesquely undemocratic and patently unfair. Luckily, Americans have a strong proclivity for both fairness and democratic process...which is why Trump is now gaining steam. It isn't that Cruz broke any rules, its that the rules are crooked...and he was OK with that. Ethics elevate good men above the rules...and Cruz showed that's not the case for him. People draw the correct conclusion from that.

[Mesaclone]

Fascinating.  So following the rules that were in place long, long before Trump was a glimmer in anyone's eyes is undemocratic?  If Trump loses the unbound delegates that's his own damned fault because he has singularly failed to participate in the process of picking them.  Just because Dinnie is a failure doesn't make the process he failed to follow undemocratic.

Correct, its a failure because it is a system DESIGNED to override the will of voters...not because Mr. Trump opposes it.

Further, following "the rules" when they are innately wrong...is akin to "following orders" that are unethical. Who can defend such a thing? But you are correct, that Mr. Trump chose not to get down in that mud and follow the corrupt rules that govern that process.

[Free Vulcan]

We are a Republic, and everyone here is fully aware of that. So your point is rather petty and irrelevant. The man said undemocratic process...and yes, this nation philosophically is all about that process. When party uses a Byzantine, insider friendly process, that is DESIGNED to override the choices voters have made...that is grotesquely undemocratic and patently unfair. Luckily, Americans have a strong proclivity for both fairness and democratic process...which is why Trump is now gaining steam. It isn't that Cruz broke any rules, its that the rules are crooked...and he was OK with that. Ethics elevate good men above the rules...and Cruz showed that's not the case for him. People draw the correct conclusion from that.

Bullcrap. You don't like the process because Trump can't swim in it. Trump people think Trump should swoop in on his jet the night before the primary, make a speech, and everyone should vote for him, and he get all the delegates even if he can't get the majority. It's the usual pitchfork mob, thug swagga routine that liberals are so well known for.

So now the Trumpets are blaring their hissy pissy, judgy, finger wagging whine routine, because the delegate process has shown that Trump is incapable of true leadership and organization to win a long drawn out process.

If he can't handle this, he's not going to be able to handle leadership on the world stage either, because this is little league compared to that.

[Free Vulcan]

Correct, its a failure because it is a system DESIGNED to override the will of voters...not because Mr. Trump opposes it.

Further, following "the rules" when they are innately wrong...is akin to "following orders" that are unethical. Who can defend such a thing? But you are correct, that Mr. Trump chose not to get down in that mud and follow the corrupt rules that govern that process.

It's called states rights. If a state party organization wants to conduct their delegate process in a certain way, then it's their perogative. It's not Trumps perogative to come in with the member swagga and the pitchfork mobs trying to thug and intimidate their way into getting what they want.

How the hell is he going to deal with Congress if he can't deal with a delegate process?

[Bill Cipher]

Correct, its a failure because it is a system DESIGNED to override the will of voters...not because Mr. Trump opposes it.

Further, following "the rules" when they are innately wrong...is akin to "following orders" that are unethical. Who can defend such a thing? But you are correct, that Mr. Trump chose not to get down in that mud and follow the corrupt rules that govern that process.

So when is Donnie going to give up all those winner take all delegates he's not entitled to because he didn't win 100% of the support of the voters in that state?

Until that happens you're nothing more than a hypocrite.

[Mesaclone]

So when is Donnie going to give up all those winner take all delegates he's not entitled to because he didn't win 100% of the support of the voters in that state?

Until that happens you're nothing more than a hypocrite.

Winner take all simply reflects the electoral college alignment. That IS part of Republican governance, and is in no way a corruption of the system. There is a constitutional precedent for winner-take-all that goes back to the founding.

On the other hand. A set of Byzantine delegate rules intended to steal delegates elected to support a voter's preferred candidate...to another candidate...is an entirely different animal. Comparisons of the two are deeply disingenous, because the delegate stealing is innately intended to override the will of voters...winner take all states simply reflect the Electoral College intention to protect the rights of voters in small states.

So, the only "hypocrisy" here is the disingenuous effort to compare apples to arugula...they are just two innately different things.

[AnybodyButaDem]

We aren't a democracy, we are a representative republic.

This has literally zero to do with selecting the GOP nominee.

 

Furthermore, party noms are private processes, not govt, and they can conduct them as they please.

Correct, and the voters who feel they are being ignored will react as they feel like reacting.  If the GOPe isn't obligated to listen to them, why should they lend their support to the GOPe?  Millions will feel ignored, and it's stupid to think there won't be many of them who just sit home instead of voting for the GOPe-approved candidate again, this time who is selecTED and no elecTED.

You anti-Trumps are playing such a short-sighted game through eyes blurred with tears of anger that you can't see what you're doing to Wile E. Cruz-yote's future chance as president.  He will never recover from what many GOP voters see as playing the elitist game while ignoring GOP voters.  You anti-Trumps keep bringing up the process; um, YEAH, that's exactly the problem and it amazes me that Cruz can't see how he has zero shot at winning when he will be lucky to end up with 25% of the GOP votes.  He is  perceived by millions of GOP voters who have cast their ballots for Trump as buying delegates, as opposed to earning them at the ballot box.  He has 2.3 million less votes than Trump, and that number is going to explode today.