Author Topic: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It  (Read 23939 times)

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Bill Cipher

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Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« on: February 29, 2016, 02:01:54 am »
Repost:

I am no BFF of Trump's and I most sincerely hope he loses the nomination.  But if he does not, as it appears he will not, then I most sincerely hope he wins the general election, and I will do my part to try and make it happen.

No, that's not an about-face, it stems from two simple facts:

1)  Trump is merely smarmy, unprincipled, egotistic and stupid; Clinton is slimy, corrupt and evil.  I'll vote for stupid over evil any day of the week.

2)  A President Trump will get very few of his crack-pot idiocies put into practice (which doesn't leave much of anything else for him to do); at worst the country will limp along on the status quo; by contrast, a President Clinton would do incalculable harm to the country that will last for decades.

The first is, I trust, self-evident.  The second, perhaps, requires a little explanation.

Candidate Trump promises to make enemies with Mexico, build a wall along the entire border at their expense, round up everyone who even smells like an illegal and boot them into Mexico, impose a 45% tariff on imports, chain companies to the US and sic the IRS on them if they dare to leave for better business climes, loose a pack of lawyers on the media with liberalized libel laws, and etc.

President Trump won't get a dime of that done, for several reasons.  The office of president does not have the inherent power to do any of that on his own, and if he tries to do it by executive order, a la Obama, the democrats will tie him and the government up in knots with litigation for all of Trump's four years.

So much for unilateral action.

President Trump also won't get a damned thing through Congress unless he gives up his idiocies and comes to heel.  To get anything done he will need to have a majority in both Houses of Congress, and that will surely mean having to get the support of all or substantially all of the republicans in Congress.  To get that support he will have to "make a deal" with the republicans and he will not be in the driver's seat when it comes to that (he may find that a little uncomfortable, but he'd better get used to it).  If the slurs on republicans like McConnell and Ryan have even a hint of truth, they'll be as likely to trust Trump as whatever democrat you wish to name.  They won't be willing to simply go along with what President Trump wants.  And whatever truth there is in the claims that they're too weak to stand up to the president, it won't work with President Trump for the simple reason that the democrats won't be jeering at them as obstructionist; they'll be supporting them as being grand statesmen, bravely resisting the depravity of Trump.  In other words, in distinct contrast to the last seven years, when the democrats brought massive pressure on the republicans in Congress with accusations of being obstructionist and of being more interested in partisanship than in having the country work, the democrats will put massive pressure on the republicans in Congress to be obstructionist, to use the co-equal power of the Congress to frustrate the unconstitutional excesses of the president.  Of course that's completely different from the tune they've been playing the last seven years, and utterly hypocritical of them, but hypocrisy has never prevented the democrats from doing what they want.

So much for having a compliant Congress.

As a result, none of Trump's promises, so fervently believed in by his supporters, will come to pass.  He'll be brought to heel much faster than his supporters seem to think.  The same will go with his appointments to the Supreme Court - perhaps the most valuable jewel up for grabs this time around - they will be at most just slightly left of center, and will in all probability be similar in ilk to Chief Justice Roberts, who is largely a younger version of Justice Kennedy.  We would end up with a fairly centrist Court; we won't get as many non-liberal 5-4 decisions as we've become accustomed to, but neither will be get a sharp veer to the hard left for decades to come.

All in all, the country will either have a modest, mild improvement, or, at worst, will muddle through with the current status quo.

On the other hand, President Clinton will get most of what she wants, particularly if half the slurs against McConnell, Ryan, and other so-called RINOs can be believed.  Firstly, and worstly, she will get to turn the Supreme Court to the hard left for decades to come.  Her appointments may not be as hard left as they would be if the democrats controlled the Senate (assuming they don't regain control of the Senate), but they will definitely be to the left, a la Kagan, and the democrats will put massive pressure on the republicans in Congress, as they have so successfully done to-date, and the republicans will inevitably consent to the appointment of justices who are distinctly leftist.

Secondly, and almost as worstly, she will be more than happy to continue to rule by fiat via executive order, and the democrats will be only too happy to facilitate that rule; they will bring massive pressure to bear to prevent Congress from overriding most of her orders.  And with the Supreme Court set to her liking, they won't be overturned by the Court, either.

Thirdly, and also worstly, just as with Obama, particularly if half the slurs against the RINOs in Congress can be believed, the democrats will bring massive pressure on the republicans in Congress to pass her policies, and will condemn them for being hyper partisan and obstructionist, interested more in satisfying a small hardcore minority of right-wing activists rather than in running the country.

The first scenario I can deal with.  I won't like it, but I will be able to survive it.  The second scenario I cannot deal with and will probably not survive.

So, if enough stupid people do manage to get a stupid idiot chosen as the Republican nominee, I will then do my best to see they can fully follow through on their stupidity, because the alternative will be far, far worse.

As I said above, if I have to, I'll always vote for stupidity over evil, any day of the week.



« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 01:05:58 am by Bill Cipher »

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 02:11:47 am »
Wow..okay..I think this will change the minds of a few people here about you.

Well written and I totally agree.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 02:16:19 am »
I like Bill and agree with him completely on most of his posts and his thoughts in this article.

But I will not throw away a vote on a man totally undeserving of sitting at the same desk where Ronald Reagan sat.

No Trump.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 02:17:59 am »
I KNEW IT! 

"Bill Cipher" ...indeed.    :whistle:

Didn't have me fooled for one minute.     
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Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 02:18:35 am »
I like Bill and agree with him completely on most of his posts and his thoughts in this article.

But I will not throw away a vote on a man totally undeserving of sitting at the same desk where Ronald Reagan sat.

No Trump.

I can understand that, and I can respect it.  Perhaps I'm just too scared of the phrase "President Clinton" and to sanguine about the ability of the democrats and moderate republicans to bring a "President Trump" to heel.

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 02:20:48 am »
Exactly how I feel Bill. Trump will be all over the map, don't even know if he'll get anything done, but he's not evil, or has the continued destruction of the US on his agenda, like Hillary.

Hillary is psychopathic, and now unhinged since she bumped her head. Vindictive, vengeful, and she has a long enemies list. Not just high profile people either. Completely power mad and far more dangerous than Obama.
The Republic is lost.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 02:27:59 am »
I can understand that, and I can respect it.  Perhaps I'm just too scared of the phrase "President Clinton" and to sanguine about the ability of the democrats and moderate republicans to bring a "President Trump" to heel.

Good grief.  Why should we back Trump if the Republicans in Congress have to spend their time bringing him to heel?  How is that different from Hillary?

Trump may be marginally better, but who knows?  He is, at heart, a Democrat.

And he will have to moderate his positions in the general to get elected.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 02:34:14 am »
Good grief.  Why should we back Trump if the Republicans in Congress have to spend their time bringing him to heel?  How is that different from Hillary?

Trump may be marginally better, but who knows?  He is, at heart, a Democrat.

And he will have to moderate his positions in the general to get elected.

Because with Trump the republicans in Congress will have the help of the democrats to bring him to heel.  With Clinton the republicans will be standing alone, pressured from all sides to toe Clinton's line.  They haven't done so well so far with Obama, I wouldn't expect them to suddenly change just because it was Clinton instead of Obama.

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2016, 02:39:22 am »
While I disagree with your overall assessments, you appear to come to your position honestly and with integrity. Early in my career I was a "bill cipher" as well (I drafted them, and inserted many poison pills and trip lines, at the behest of those calling those shots). You may at some point come to understand "stupidity" as something different than what you now think it is.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2016, 02:43:07 am »
Because with Trump the republicans in Congress will have the help of the democrats to bring him to heel.  With Clinton the republicans will be standing alone, pressured from all sides to toe Clinton's line.  They haven't done so well so far with Obama, I wouldn't expect them to suddenly change just because it was Clinton instead of Obama.

So, instead of supporting someone who can actually get some good things done, we're stuck with two candidates (Trump and Hillary) whom Congress has to spend the next four years blocking in everything they do.

How depressing.

Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2016, 02:43:52 am »
While I disagree with your overall assessments, you appear to come to your position honestly and with integrity. Early in my career I was a "bill cipher" as well (I drafted them, and inserted many poison pills and trip lines, at the behest of those calling those shots). You may at some point come to understand "stupidity" as something different than what you now think it is.

I rather don't think I will.  Having been incredibly stupid myself in my misspent youth, I think I'm rather well-versed in recognizing it.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2016, 02:45:21 am »
So, instead of supporting someone who can actually get some good things done, we're stuck with two candidates (Trump and Hillary) whom Congress has to spend the next four years blocking in everything they do.

How depressing.



Depressing isn't the word for it.  Downright psychosis-inducing is closer.  But there it is; Candide was wrong, we don't live in the best of all possible worlds, we live in this world, and we must either deal with it or go mad denying it.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2016, 02:53:03 am »
Like Congress will block anything.  Their sellouts with Obama have caused this mess.

They will certainly block the lunacies of Trump.  I'm counting on the alleged spinelessness of Congress, and the hyperpartisan nature of the democrat party, to bring him to heel.  I'm counting on his crassness and mulishness to keep the balance roughly in the middle, with the trudging status quo.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #13 on: February 29, 2016, 02:53:44 am »
The Republicans in Congress have a one trick pony backbone.  They defend their own power, which usually means they are fighting against conservatives.  Other than that they are spineless.

And I am counting on just that to bring Trump to heel.

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2016, 03:00:16 am »
Sadly, the GOP Congress, if they can keep it, will likely put up a real fight to block Trump than they would Hillary. I'll take nothing getting done v. handing over the farm.

That and, if Trump wins, Hillary is off the map for good, and the Dems have to start over. The nation treads water, and we might have some hope for 2020 as our bench is deeper.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 03:01:15 am by Free Vulcan »
The Republic is lost.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2016, 03:04:35 am »
Sadly, the GOP Congress, if they can keep it, will likely put up a real fight to block Trump than they would Hillary. I'll take nothing getting done v. handing over the farm.

That and, if Trump wins, Hillary is off the map for good, and the Dems have to start over. The nation treads water, and we might have some hope for 2020 as our bench is deeper.

That is what I'm counting on.

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2016, 03:08:11 am »
If they didn't fight Obama, why do you think they will fight Trump?  If we know they care about their own power first, how will they fight Trump when he is the head of their party?  He will have increased sway over their own re-elections.

The only ones who will fight Trump are Democrats.  If they control Congress, they will fight every jot and tittle that differs from their liberal agenda.  Problem is, Trump is a deal maker.  He will negotiate with them.  Disaster ahead.

Another thing no one seems to thing about:  Trump is selling himself by saying Democrats will vote for him.  OK.  What else will THAT mean?  I'll tell you.  It means a Democrat House and Senate.  Guaranteed.  Just because Democrats cross over to vote for Trump does not automatically mean they will vote Republican in the other races.  It may mean big losses in the states, too.

Because they'll have the full backing of the democrats to fight Trump, that's why.  The republicans in Congress have so far stood alone, abandoned even by members of their own party who think them RINOs and backstabbers; can it be any great wonder that they folded under the relentless pressure of the democrat party, with their mouthpieces in the media?  With Clinton as president, that situation would continue, and I have no great hope that they would be able to resist any better than they can now.  With Trump as president, however, the pressure will change completely; they'll be pressured to stand up against Trump, and the only people to resist that pressure will be Trump's disappointed supporters.  That changes the dynamic entirely and means that Trump will be fully checked unless he comes to heel.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 03:08:32 am by Bill Cipher »

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2016, 03:26:46 am »
I disagree.  The democrats will not back them if they are fighting for conservative principles.  It will once again work only one direction.  Don't forget, Trump plays very dirty.  He is also very vindictive.  He will crush anyone who dares to disagree with him.  He will have control of the DOJ, FBI, CIA, IRS to help him.  Illegal?  Has that stopped Obama?

They won't have to.  All they'll have to do is work against Trump.  I'm not looking for conservative principles.  They won't come from Trump.  They won't come from Clinton, and they won't come from the DNC.  All I'm looking for at this point is status quo, in hope the fever will eventually break by the time the 2020 elections come around.  And why would you think the career civil service, like Lois Lerner, who are committed liberals, will suddenly flip and go after Trump's enemies with the same gusto?  They'll do their level best to frustrate him as well.

I also find it more than a little disturbing that you appear (I apologize if I'm wrong) to prefer as president someone whom you call dirty and vindictive.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 03:28:08 am by Bill Cipher »

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2016, 03:26:50 am »
Mrs Drumpfs little Donny Still loses in Head to head Polls  against bernie and hillary.


The republican party won't be handing him a free  ticket to queer this election regardless of how he does in any polls or primaries.


He was Born a Politcal Lemon and a Political Lemon he will remain!!


« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 03:27:28 am by Meshuge Mikey »
Have Indentified as a Male since birth!

Bill Cipher

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2016, 03:29:20 am »
Mrs Drumpfs little Donny Still loses in Head to head Polls  against bernie and hillary.


The republican party won't be handing him a free  ticket to queer this election regardless of how he does in any polls or primaries.


He was Born a Politcal Lemon and a Political Lemon he will remain!!





I hope you're right.  But I'm not Candide.  I realize quite well that just because I want something doesn't mean that I'll get it (not even if I deserve it).

Offline aligncare

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2016, 03:49:40 am »

Aside from it being purely speculative all the things Trump won't get done, his history tells a different story of all the things Trump has gotten done.

No one can force you to google and educate yourself about Trump's many accomplishments; successes that have made him an icon in the public's imagination for 30 years: his name has been scripted into hundreds of TV episodes and mentioned on morning shows for 30 years as a symbol of success.

You're also missing an important aspect of his suitability for the presidency: He's a dynamic type-A and works hard. His work ethic is legendary, his drive to master challenges and new skills and succeed is also an important aspect of his personality.

When we hire Donald Trump, we will get a dynamo, not a dud playing golf his entire presidency, like Obama.

Some conservatives have bought into the caricature of Donald Trump, and allowed themselves to be swayed by the political noise, and by his coarse New York street attitude (which actually endears him with a large swath of folks).

But, all that aside, glad to hear you won't make an unforced error and be one of those conservatives who will let pride stop you from doing the right thing, and work with every fiber of your being to stop the democrats in November.

 :beer: :patriot:

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2016, 03:58:11 am »
Aside from it being purely speculative all the things Trump won't get done, his history tells a different story of all the things Trump has gotten done.

No one can force you to google and educate yourself about Trump's many accomplishments; successes that have made him an icon in the public's imagination for 30 years: his name has been scripted into hundreds of TV episodes and mentioned on morning shows for 30 years as a symbol of success.

You're also missing an important aspect of his suitability for the presidency: He's a dynamic type-A and works hard. His work ethic is legendary, his drive to master challenges and new skills and succeed is also an important aspect of his personality.

When we hire Donald Trump, we will get a dynamo, not a dud playing golf his entire presidency, like Obama.

Some conservatives have bought into the caricature of Donald Trump, and allowed themselves to be swayed by the political noise, and by his coarse New York street attitude (which actually endears him with a large swath of folks).

But, all that aside, glad to hear you won't make an unforced error and be one of those conservatives who will let pride stop you from doing the right thing, and work with every fiber of your being to stop the democrats in November.

 :beer: :patriot:

There will be no lack of effort or energy. Given how intent Obama is even now on his campaign promises - look at Guantanamo - it is that kind of energy we must have, not political calculation but energy, to make some very big things like our borders, defense, our economy and the insanity of our trade relations which always, always, benefit our competitors as if we were a sclerotic old dying nation.  Do that and we will have gained.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2016, 03:58:22 am »
Like Congress will block anything.  Their sellouts with Obama have caused this mess.

Oh, I dunno.  If it's a republican, they may well block him.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2016, 04:01:47 am »
Aside from it being purely speculative all the things Trump won't get done, his history tells a different story of all the things Trump has gotten done.

No one can force you to google and educate yourself about Trump's many accomplishments; successes that have made him an icon in the public's imagination for 30 years: his name has been scripted into hundreds of TV episodes and mentioned on morning shows for 30 years as a symbol of success.

You're also missing an important aspect of his suitability for the presidency: He's a dynamic type-A and works hard. His work ethic is legendary, his drive to master challenges and new skills and succeed is also an important aspect of his personality.

When we hire Donald Trump, we will get a dynamo, not a dud playing golf his entire presidency, like Obama.

Some conservatives have bought into the caricature of Donald Trump, and allowed themselves to be swayed by the political noise, and by his coarse New York street attitude (which actually endears him with a large swath of folks).

But, all that aside, glad to hear you won't make an unforced error and be one of those conservatives who will let pride stop you from doing the right thing, and work with every fiber of your being to stop the democrats in November.

 :beer: :patriot:

With all due respect, this is Trump boilerplate and could have been issued by his press office.

Trump IS a caricature, a guy who was born on third base and thought he hit a home run.  His successes are well-documented, his failures are legendary. 

He will get virtually nothing of what he proposes through a Congress, Republican or Democrat.

So it's all bullshit. 
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Why I'll Gladly Vote for Trump in November, if it Comes to It
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2016, 04:03:13 am »
Oh, I dunno.  If it's a republican, they may well block him.

They would not dare oppose someone who has a majority of national votes.  Not someone who can go over their heads straight to the people.
Well, George Lewis told the Englishman, the Italian and the Jew
You can't open your mind, boys, to every conceivable point of view

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