Author Topic: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate  (Read 7154 times)

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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2016, 10:26:04 pm »
oops....I was wrong about that.  :whistle:

Not really.  The flag in the background of that little meme is NOT the flag that Thomson designed.


HonestJohn

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2016, 10:28:32 pm »
Not really.  The flag in the background of that little meme is NOT the flag that Thomson designed.

The intent was to encapsulate those values into the Confederate flag.  Whether the flag looked exactly like the original design is moot, as at no point did the creator ever recant his intent to encapsulate those values into the flag of the Confederacy.

(ugh, I need to spell better)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 10:29:01 pm by HonestJohn »

Offline Carling

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2016, 10:30:59 pm »
The intent was to encapsulate those values into the Confederate flag.  Whether the flag looked exactly like the original design is moot, as at no point did the creator ever recant his intent to encapsulate those values into the flag of the Confederacy.

(ugh, I need to spell better)

Except it left out the racist part of Thompson's flag.

So, either you didn't know this, or you weren't being completely honest, John, in posting your misleading image.   :pondering:
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #53 on: January 14, 2016, 10:32:50 pm »
That's a good point. Why not have held a referendum on whether South Carolinians support the flag on state buildings, instead of this executive action. Given the sensitive nature and the symbolism involved, direct democracy could have settled the issue.

Direct democracy is not the norm in this country, and indeed was seen to be dangerous by the Founders.   We instead have representative democracy (actually, a republic whereby most laws are enacted by the peoples' elected representatives).  If I'm not mistaken, the S.C. legislature voted to take down the CSA flag.  It wasn't by unilateral action of Gov. Haley.  (Correct me if I'm wrong). 
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HonestJohn

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #54 on: January 14, 2016, 10:38:01 pm »
Except it left out the racist part of Thompson's flag.

So, either you didn't know this, or you weren't being completely honest, John, in posting your misleading image.   :pondering:

Are you stating that the creator of the flag encapsulated his support of white rule over the 'inferior' races in just one portion of the flag?  I understood it to be that the entire flag encapsulated those values.

And while the final version was not exactly the same as his 'first draft', he was still working to make that flag be a symbol of those values. 

It sounds like you are saying that once the white background was removed, he then viewed the final version as not representing those values at all.  If so, can you show where he ever changed his mind?

Offline aligncare

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #55 on: January 14, 2016, 10:40:08 pm »
Direct democracy is not the norm in this country, and indeed was seen to be dangerous by the Founders.   We instead have representative democracy (actually, a republic whereby most laws are enacted by the peoples' elected representatives).  If I'm not mistaken, the S.C. legislature voted to take down the CSA flag.  It wasn't by unilateral action of Gov. Haley.  (Correct me if I'm wrong).

That's why I phrased it the way I did. It's a referendum on a flag fight, not a budget bill.

California already has ballot measures and propositions on state government spending and taxing that voters decide directly.

Offline flowers

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2016, 10:53:32 pm »
The designer of the Confederate flag, quoted:




Quote
History of the Confederate Flag
The best-known of all Confederate flags the battle flag is often erroneously confused with the national flag of the Confederacy. The battle flag features the cross of St. Andrew (the apostle was martyred by being crucified on an X-shaped cross), and is commonly called the "Southern Cross." A large degree of the Southern population was of Scottish and Scotch-Irish ancestry, and thus familiar with St. Andrew, the patron saint of Scotland. The stars represented the eleven states actually in the Confederacy, plus Kentucky and Missouri.

The Army of Northern Virginia was the first to design a flag with the cross of St. Andrew, and Gen. P. G. T. Beauregard proposed adopting a version of it as the standard battle flag of the Confederate army. One of its virtues was that, unlike the Stars and Bars, the Southern Cross was next to impossible to confuse with the Stars and Stripes in battle.

The Confederate battle flag eventually developed wide acceptance throughout the Confederacy, but it was by no means the only battle flag. The Stars and Bars continued to be used, and after it was replaced with a new national flag, that flag the "Stainless Banner"also appeared on the battlefield. In addition, some states used their own flags in combat.

The Confederate battle flag, called the "Southern Cross" or the cross of St. Andrew, has been described variously as a proud emblem of Southern heritage. In the past, several Southern states flew the Confederate battle flag along with the U.S. and state flags over their statehouses. The Southern Caucus provides information to promote our southern heritage.

The Congress of the Confederate States of America (CSA) convened a meeting and decided on this as the first formal flag of the CSA in March of 1861. It was a slight modification of the already existing flag of the USA. It was formally known as the Stars and Bars, and comprised 3 stripes in this order: red, white, red. On the upper left corner was a deep blue square which had a circle of 7 stars in it. A unique moment of a lesson of Confederate flag history was on the battle flag.  This is how it got its name. History points to the flag, however, was soon rejected due to some problems that it posed. During the battle in Virginia, between Manassas and Bull Run Creek, this confederate flag history caused a lot of serious confusion. Because it bore a striking resemblance to the flag of the U.S. (stars and stripes), soldiers from the North and the South were often confused about who belonged to which part. This tiny mistake resulted in the death of many soldiers and hence it was decided to alter the design of the flag, a lesson in history.

The history reflects creation of a Confederate flag was one of the first decisions of the new country. The job of designing the flag was given to the new Committee on the Flag and Seal.



Offline flowers

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2016, 10:55:28 pm »
Not really.  The flag in the background of that little meme is NOT the flag that Thomson designed.
It bothered me that I may have gotten that wrong. I see I didn't. I just posted a new post on this thread. Thank you kaz!


Offline Carling

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2016, 10:56:26 pm »
Are you stating that the creator of the flag encapsulated his support of white rule over the 'inferior' races in just one portion of the flag?  I understood it to be that the entire flag encapsulated those values.

And while the final version was not exactly the same as his 'first draft', he was still working to make that flag be a symbol of those values. 

It sounds like you are saying that once the white background was removed, he then viewed the final version as not representing those values at all.  If so, can you show where he ever changed his mind?

I'm saying that the flag you attributed to Thompson was not one of his designs, and that the large "white" part of his flag that he said were for white supremacy didn't make it to the Rebel flag.  I know the history behind all of it, and I know it's roots, and I know you were being disHonestJohn and are now scrambling to recover as most liberals do.

We're not dumb here. 
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Offline Carling

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2016, 11:00:51 pm »
Gee, what a shock.  "HonestJohn" is even not being truthful about the origins of the Stars and Bars flag that was first used by the early Confederacy. 

Quote
The first official national flag of the Confederacy, often called the "Stars and Bars," was flown from March 4, 1861 to May 1, 1863. It was designed by German/Prussian artist Nicola Marschall in Marion, Alabama and resembles the flag of the Austrian Empire (later Austria-Hungary, now the Republic of Austria), with which Marschall would have been familiar.[14][15] The "Stars and Bars" flag was adopted March 4, 1861, in the first temporary national capital of Montgomery, Alabama, and raised over the dome of that first Confederate capitol. Marschall also designed the Confederate army uniform.[15]

« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 11:02:55 pm by Carling »
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Offline flowers

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2016, 11:03:05 pm »


We're not dumb here.
Nor are we kool-aid drinkers either.


Offline Carling

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2016, 11:03:48 pm »
Is there any doubt that this place is being infiltrated with DNC trolls?  That Stimulus Bill is still paying off, I guess.
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Offline katzenjammer

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2016, 11:10:16 pm »
It bothered me that I may have gotten that wrong. I see I didn't. I just posted a new post on this thread. Thank you kaz!

 :beer:

Offline flowers

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #63 on: January 14, 2016, 11:17:40 pm »
Is there any doubt that this place is being infiltrated with DNC trolls?  That Stimulus Bill is still paying off, I guess.
Trolls of some sort for sure. Just updated my ignore list.  Never have used it in all these years on the net. This year has been the first.


Offline Carling

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2016, 05:50:41 am »
Bump  :nono:

"HonestJohn" won't defend his deceit in this thread once confronted with the truth.   :whistle: :shrug:
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Offline Carling

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2016, 05:20:09 pm »
HonestJohn, not even an apology for your deceit?
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HonestJohn

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2016, 11:20:47 pm »
I'm saying that the flag you attributed to Thompson was not one of his designs, and that the large "white" part of his flag that he said were for white supremacy didn't make it to the Rebel flag.  I know the history behind all of it, and I know it's roots, and I know you were being disHonestJohn and are now scrambling to recover as most liberals do.

We're not dumb here.

Actually, the flag showing the Army of Northern Virginia (ANV) battle flag on a white banner, which is the flag whose creator was quoted originally, was adopted by the Confederacy on 1 May, 1863 and lasted until it's surrender.

So the quote applies.

http://www.historynet.com/embattled-banner-the-convoluted-history-of-the-confederate-flag.htm

HonestJohn

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2016, 11:27:39 pm »
Bump  :nono:

"HonestJohn" won't defend his deceit in this thread once confronted with the truth.   :whistle: :shrug:

Maybe because I wasn't online by the time you posted your responses?

Why are you demanding I be at your beck and call?

And claiming this as proof of liberalism is a defamation of character.  You should apologize.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2016, 11:30:42 pm »
Stop the personal attacks
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Offline flowers

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2016, 11:52:48 pm »
Stop the personal attacks
just like whac-a-mole.....get rid of one and 2 others pop up. :whistle: :smokin:


Offline PzLdr

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Re: Rising star Nikki Haley says she is open to becoming GOP running mate
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2016, 04:59:29 am »
Actually, the flag showing the Army of Northern Virginia (ANV) battle flag on a white banner, which is the flag whose creator was quoted originally, was adopted by the Confederacy on 1 May, 1863 and lasted until it's surrender.

So the quote applies.

http://www.historynet.com/embattled-banner-the-convoluted-history-of-the-confederate-flag.htm

Actually, No. Concerns about a potential for mistaking the national banner [the ANV battle flag on the field of white] being mistaken for a surrender flag, if the portion with the upper field got wrapped around the pole, led to the third national Confederate flag, which had a broad red stripe running from top to bottom on the end of the flag.
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