Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers

[EdinVA]

That also applies to your last comment, which could easily apply to Nazi Germany or any other tyrannical state.

Sorry but I missed your point on this one Mass.... I thought we were talking about giving illegals "amnesty" not invading other countries.....

The point of Locke, Jefferson, Rand, Friedman and even Burke and Kirk is that civilization should be organized under certain principles that originate with God, not from men with guns who bully their way into creating a nation state.

We are organized under God, in a manner of speaking, at least christian principles.  But what do you do when people decide not to follow those principles?  Do we just ignore it, shake our head and move on?

  What separates Americans from the revolutionaries that came before us is our recognition of three fundamental human rights: life, liberty, property.

Agree.  The sticking point is the property part.... You are willing to give your property away and I am not.  I am part owner in the USA, just as you are.  This is my home and no one should have access to it without our permission.

This is not something I only believe when it is convenient to me.

No comment...

[aligncare]

As to the first part of your post, I would say that BOTH our labor protection laws and Obamacare are tyrannical in nature, and both should be opposed.  Ditto laws that require ESL and translators, and even laws that require local communities to educate the children of illegals.

I am not quite sure what you mean by governments exporting American capability, but in principle I would agree that national governments should do absolutely nothing except protect the natural rights of their citizens. 

That also applies to your last comment, which could easily apply to Nazi Germany or any other tyrannical state.  The point of Locke, Jefferson, Rand, Friedman and even Burke and Kirk is that civilization should be organized under certain principles that originate with God, not from men with guns who bully their way into creating a nation state.  What separates Americans from the revolutionaries that came before us is our recognition of three fundamental human rights: life, liberty, property.

This is not something I only believe when it is convenient to me.

Great, we've got human rights covered. Now, what of human tradition? Borders, language, culture. Over millennia these things will change naturally.  But, when the period is short and sudden, oversized, through deliberate policy of government importation, without consent or consensus of the people, well that is problematic.

[Scottftlc]

An uncomplicated immigration policy in one sentence: If you can walk across the border, you're a citizen.

I am quite certain it would make both the Chamber of Commerce lobby and the Democrat party quite happy.  Labor not so much.

However, there would be a tremendous growth industry created in building walled compounds for the government and business elite.

[truth_seeker]

If Trump is leading in all national polls and is at least 2nd in smaller polls, I don't see how you arrive at your "narrow but loud faction" statement.
Do you have statistics or info on this or is this just your view?

I have only my opinion, base on life experience. I believe looking back on this election cycle, asking why the GOP lost to President Clinton, the Hispanic insults by Trump will reappear.

The analysis will cite that right after the 2012 loss, it was suggested the GOP should start paying greater heed to the GROWING segments of the electorate, since their own segments were SHRINKING. Foremost among those growing segments was Hispanics.

Winning the GOP nomination is one thing. Winning the general election is another.

[massadvj]

Great, we've got human rights covered. Now, what of human tradition? Borders, language, culture. Over millennia these things will change naturally.  But, when the period is short and sudden, oversized, through deliberate policy of government importation, without consent or consensus of the people, well that is problematic.

 

Well, herein lies the problem.  You argue that America is a socialist state, and because we are a socialist state we cannot afford to allow immigrants here to work.  However, I argue that what we should be doing is reversing the socialism as opposed to compounding it by closing our borders.  Iron curtains and socialism/communism go hand in hand.  When people talk about building walls I get nervous.

[Scottftlc]

 

Well, herein lies the problem.  You argue that America is a socialist state, and because we are a socialist state we cannot afford to allow immigrants here to work.  However, I argue that what we should be doing is reversing the socialism as opposed to compounding it by closing our borders.  Iron curtains and socialism/communism go hand in hand.  When people talk about building walls I get nervous.

Here is an even deeper irony...most of those entering the country (for work and for government benefits) are highly committed socialists, people who have lived under socialism their entire lives and know or want nothing else.  They will become the most fervant supporters of the American socialist state.  Changing it becomes nearly impossible as we import more and more committed socialists.  Soon, if not now, we will have a committed socialist majority and the meager chances of reversing it will be eliminated altogether.

[libertybele]

So you want Donald to bypass Congress and the courts to round up every illegal immigrants correct?

Who said anything about bypassing Congress?  That is an assumption.  Immigration laws need to be changed.  Our existing immigration laws need to be enforced.  The action of "catch and release" needs to stopped; rather we need "catch and deport".    This notion that we would be  unable to accomplish mass deportation is ridiculous.  This notion that deportation is similar to Nazism is equally ridiculous.  They are here ILLEGALLY -- they aren't citizens, they don't belong in this country!  Deportation is not only feasible but will give this country an economic boost.

[massadvj]

Here is an even deeper irony...most of those entering the country (for work and for government benefits) are highly committed socialists, people who have lived under socialism their entire lives and know or want nothing else.  They will become the most fervant supporters of the American socialist state.  Changing it becomes nearly impossible as we import more and more committed socialists.  Soon, if not now, we will have a committed socialist majority and the meager chances of reversing it will be eliminated altogether.

I agree.  Most immigrants are not coming here to work, but to access our social safety net.  This is in contrast to the immigrants of earlier centuries who came here for freedom as opposed to become dependents of the state.  One more good reason that getting rid of socialism is better than building walls.

[truth_seeker]

Great, we've got human rights covered. Now, what of human tradition? Borders, language, culture. Over millennia these things will change naturally.  But, when the period is short and sudden, oversized, through deliberate policy of government importation, without consent or consensus of the people, well that is problematic.

Didn't you say you studied in California? Remember the names of towns? Los Angeles, San Francisco?

It has been for less than 200 years, that English dominated here.   "Borders, language, culture. Over millennia these things will change naturally."

The Spanish speakers that I have known since grade school speak accent-free English, too. They are truly bilingual, like almost all Europeans. 

There does exist a certain (Anglo) paranoia, fear that the newcomers (Hispanics) will take from us that which is ours.

Here in California the Hispanics were here before us, and have been alongside ever since.

[aligncare]

 

Well, herein lies the problem.  You argue that America is a socialist state, and because we are a socialist state we cannot afford to allow immigrants here to work.  However, I argue that what we should be doing is reversing the socialism as opposed to compounding it by closing our borders.  Iron curtains and socialism/communism go hand in hand.  When people talk about building walls I get nervous.

Listening to Rush and he just now reminded his listeners what Milton Friedman said about illegal immigration. That unfettered illegal immigration combined with a welfare state is a disastrous combination for the host society. Wise man that Friedman.

[massadvj]

Sorry but I missed your point on this one Mass.... I thought we were talking about giving illegals "amnesty" not invading other countries.....

We are organized under God, in a manner of speaking, at least christian principles.  But what do you do when people decide not to follow those principles?  Do we just ignore it, shake our head and move on?

Agree.  The sticking point is the property part.... You are willing to give your property away and I am not.  I am part owner in the USA, just as you are.  This is my home and no one should have access to it without our permission.

No comment...

Just to be clear, I am not a supporter of amnesty, especially if it involves a path to citizenship.

As an example, I think income tax avoiders also have great moral authority for what they do, but I would not let them skate for breaking the law.

I also have not talked about giving my property away.  I simply want access to all trading partners who wish to exchange with me, not just those the government permits me to negotiate with.

As far as I understand it, being born a citizen of the USA was never intended to confer land ownership. It was intended to guarantee fundamental human rights: land, liberty, property.  The right to property does not mean you get an interest in property without exchanging something for it.  As far as your own home, I completely agree you should have the right to restrict access to it however you wish.

[massadvj]

Listening to Rush and he just now reminded his listeners what Milton Friedman said about illegal immigration. That unfettered illegal immigration combined with a welfare state is a disastrous combination for the host society. Wise man that Friedman.

Yes, but did you also know that Friedman was an advocate of open borders, and would likely continue to advocate for open borders today?  He made the argument because he understood that open borders were a stopgap AGAINST socialism. 

He never imagined the socialists would invite the hordes in so that they could gain a majority and turn the country into a one party state. 

[massadvj]

Didn't you say you studied in California? Remember the names of towns? Los Angeles, San Francisco?

It has been for less than 200 years, that English dominated here.   "Borders, language, culture. Over millennia these things will change naturally."

The Spanish speakers that I have known since grade school speak accent-free English, too. They are truly bilingual, like almost all Europeans. 

There does exist a certain (Anglo) paranoia, fear that the newcomers (Hispanics) will take from us that which is ours.

Here in California the Hispanics were here before us, and have been alongside ever since.

Well, yes, but this native Californian would like to remind you that California has turned into a one-party socialist state.  Politically, as California has gone, so will the rest of the country.

I don't think California's problems were caused by open borders.  They were caused by open borders combined with a generous social safety net.

[truth_seeker]

Well, yes, but this native Californian would like to remind you that California has turned into a one-party socialist state.  Politically, as California has gone, so will the rest of the country.

I don't think California's problems were caused by open borders.  They were caused by open borders combined with a generous social safety net.

It has happened pretty quickly in history. Both Calif. and Texas have about 37% self-identified "Hispanics." The states share the same fedgov safety net, and have their own state safety nets.

Calif. elected Republicans very recently. Our budget is balanced, and we give to the federal government on a net accounts basis, not take from it like most red states.

I am not sure I can point to the time in economic history that California (or the US) moved from pure capitalist to European mixed economy to socialist.

Can you point out the key elements of that timeline?

[Free Vulcan]

I'm not for giving illegals guest worker status. I am for giving them temporary status that requires them to have a job, not be on welfare, and not have a criminal record, while they apply at the back of the line for more permanent status. Those that can't cut it get sent home, as well as those that don't register.

[flowers]

The best way to get rid of these people, stop giving them freebies. They will leave on their own.

[massadvj]

It has happened pretty quickly in history. Both Calif. and Texas have about 37% self-identified "Hispanics." The states share the same fedgov safety net, and have their own state safety nets.

Calif. elected Republicans very recently. Our budget is balanced, and we give to the federal government on a net accounts basis, not take from it like most red states.

I am not sure I can point to the time in economic history that California (or the US) moved from pure capitalist to European mixed economy to socialist.

Can you point out the key elements of that timeline?

It was incremental. 

I will note that Texas, which has much more capitalist-friendly politics, has not evolved politically the way California has.  In fact, the current Texas governor Abbott, who was Tea Party all the way, got 44 percent of the Hispanic vote. 

Makes one want to question one's assumptions about Hispanics, I think.

[Scottftlc]

The best way to get rid of these people, stop giving them freebies. They will leave on their own.

That horse has already left the barn.  The freebies are INCREASING, rapidly at that.  Now it is driver's licenses, which leads to voter registrations, instate college tuition (or even free tuition) - in California, illegal aliens are treated better than citizens of neighboring states.  They essentially become automatic citizens the moment they set foot in California.  Citizens with a full slate of government benefits, some of which even the taxpayers there can't acquire.  It is far, far too late to roll back socialism.  Not too mention that we are importing primarily committed socialists out of Latin America.  They will be happy to vote for even more government largesse.

I find it amazing that we are being told that we simply must accept this in America - that there is nothing that can be done about it and we must just take in the hordes from the south - at the same moment Europe is being over-run by Islamic hordes.  The irony of the death of the west is very thick indeed.

[flowers]

I find it amazing that we are being told that we simply must accept this in America - that there is nothing that can be done about it and we must just take in the hordes from the south - at the same moment Europe is being over-run by Islamic hordes.

  Yep....almost like a worldwide plan.    I still say cut them off. It is either them or us at this point.

[EdinVA]

Makes one want to question one's assumptions about Hispanics, I think.

Not to pic nits..... Mexicans are the least of our problems... There are many other nationalities, no so nice, that are here illegally...

[Fishrrman]

kevindavis wrote above:
"You mean the fast food jobs that will be replaced by machines real soon??"

And then, all those newly-arrived "guest workers" with permanent residency will transmogrify into welfare recipients in the twinklin' of an eye.

No "guest workers".
No amnesty.
EVER.

[Fishrrman]

Open-borders Oceander writes above:
"Baloney.  Has your grandson actually applied for any of these jobs?"

My first job was collecting shopping carts in the parking lot of a Daitch-Shopwell back in the summer of 1966 for $1.25 an hour.

Is that "entry-level" enough for you?

[Fishrrman]

aligncare wrote above:
"An uncomplicated immigration policy in one sentence: If you can walk across the border, you're a citizen."

Post of the day. The utter truth.

Hmmm.....
Why don't you email this to the Trump campaign?

If he says this in the next debate, he'll gain 5-10 more points in the polls.

[Fishrrman]

mass wrote above:
"Iron curtains and socialism/communism go hand in hand.  When people talk about building walls I get nervous."

Do you have a lock on your front door?

Why?

[massadvj]

Do you have a lock on your front door?

Why?

I do. To keep the Jehova's Witnesses out, mostly.