Author Topic: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers  (Read 3605 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« on: October 28, 2015, 01:23:26 am »
This article is over a month old.  I didn't see it before, but was really surprised by it. A guest worker program IMHO, takes jobs away from American citizens.  Carson talks about turning off incentives and goodies; but I would think "come to America we'll give you a job" is pretty dang enticing...being rewarded for breaking the law is quite an incentive.   Secondly, they register, they work here, then what?  It's not like they are going to be asked to leave.  The obvious next step to me would be granting them citizenship and voting rights.  So ... I guess I'm trying to discern in the overall big picture what the difference is between a guest worker program and amnesty?  Guest worker program I suppose sounds less drastic than all out amnesty, but eventually that would be the next step.


Ben Carson: Give Illegals Six Months to Register as Guest Workers



(CNSNews.com) - GOP presidential candidate Ben Carson told CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday that his immigration plan would include giving illegal immigrants six months to register as guest workers.

“Those who are here, you know, we have to recognize that we can't just round them up, but we can give them an opportunity to register. I would give them a six-month period, and if they register and they have a pristine record, they haven't been causing problems, I would give them an opportunity to become guest workers, not citizens, not voting people, not people who get goodies,” said Carson.

“And I think that would be a fair way to do it. In terms of them becoming citizens later on down the road, if they have done things the right way, we, the American people, will decide what the criteria for that would be,” he added.

“I want to ask you for a moment about immigration, which, as you have said, that Donald Trump's plan for deporting those undocumented workers here is unrealistic, is it unrealistic because it's unfeasible, or is it -- do you have a moral problem with that notion of trying to deport all the undocumented workers who are here?” host John Dickerson asked.

“No, I believe the logistics are difficult,” said Carson. “As I said, I'm all ears. If somebody can tell me exactly how you can do that, I would certainly be interested in hearing it, but the fact of the matter is, our problem is that our federal government is not supporting the local authorities at the border.

“And it's disgusting, what is going on, that people are risking life and limb just to have ICE come along and say, release those people,” he said. “And that fence down there, I mean, when I was a kid, that barely represented any impediment whatsoever to our progress. It's ridiculous.

“Until we seal our borders, everything else is irrelevant, but let's say we get them sealed, because, certainly, in a Carson administration, that would be done within the first year,” said Carson. “You also turn off the spigot that dispenses the goodies so that people don't have any incentive to come here.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/melanie-hunter/ben-carson-give-illegals-six-months-register-guest-workers
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Oceander

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2015, 01:26:11 am »
guest worker visas don't take jobs away from Americans.  Most of the jobs illegals do are jobs that few Americans at all are willing to do for the money those jobs pay.  Economics is not a zero-sum game, either, so the pie will multiply - like the loaves and fishes - to expand as more sit down to the table.

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2015, 01:30:48 am »
guest worker visas don't take jobs away from Americans.  Most of the jobs illegals do are jobs that few Americans at all are willing to do for the money those jobs pay.  Economics is not a zero-sum game, either, so the pie will multiply - like the loaves and fishes - to expand as more sit down to the table.


I have no problem with this..
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Offline LambChop

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2015, 01:33:02 am »
you mean jobs like entry level fast food, something my teenage grandson would want so he can make enough money to pay for his car insurance and maintenance?  Or maybe you mean the jobs of working in the fields, the way many in my family have financed their college degrees.   They do indeed take jobs from American workers.

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2015, 01:34:55 am »
you mean jobs like entry level fast food, something my teenage grandson would want so he can make enough money to pay for his car insurance and maintenance?  Or maybe you mean the jobs of working in the fields, the way many in my family have financed their college degrees.   They do indeed take jobs from American workers.


You mean the fast food jobs that will be replaced by machines real soon??
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2015, 01:52:12 am »
The notion that "illegals" don't take job away from American citizens or they do the jobs that American won't do is utterly complete bunk!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Oceander

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2015, 01:52:24 am »
you mean jobs like entry level fast food, something my teenage grandson would want so he can make enough money to pay for his car insurance and maintenance?  Or maybe you mean the jobs of working in the fields, the way many in my family have financed their college degrees.   They do indeed take jobs from American workers.

Baloney.  Has your grandson actually applied for any of these jobs?  If he can't find them, then perhaps he could go into the commercial lawn care business.  Of course, if he did, he'd have to get used to working 12 hour days and he'd have to learn to speak Spanish, 'cause there ain't many English speakers, legal or illegal, in that line of business.

Oceander

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2015, 01:54:06 am »
The notion that "illegals" don't take job away from American citizens or they do the jobs that American won't do is utterly complete bunk!


/snicker

Right.  Then why are there so many cabs driving around NYC with "drivers wanted" stickers on them?  Where are these supposed job-hungry Americans?  Not taking those jobs because they consider those jobs to be beneath them, that's what.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2015, 01:57:35 am »
Nope.  6 months to wrap up your affairs and return to your home would be OK. 
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 01:57:52 am by Sanguine »

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 02:19:43 am »
There are still people on this forum who beieve that Trump is going to drive 11 million people out of this country over a 2 year period.

He will not, he can not, and yet they still let him blow smoke up their skirts.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline PzLdr

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 03:01:28 am »
Give 'em 6 months to get the hell out of the country. They ARE criminals, ya know.
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Offline sinkspur

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 03:12:21 am »
Give 'em 6 months to get the hell out of the country. They ARE criminals, ya know.

There is no sentiment in the country for that. There is no sentiment in the country for Trump's goofy plan either.  And Congress won't fund it.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 03:35:43 am »
There is no sentiment in the country for that. There is no sentiment in the country for Trump's goofy plan either.  And Congress won't fund it.

Really?? No sentiment for the FACT that ILLEGALS ARE CRIMINALS??  Since When?  And why wouldn't Trump's idea of deportation work? It is not without possibility.  To say that it is impossible to secure our borders and to deport illegals is a cop out. For an example;  the easiest "group" to deport are those ILLEGALS occupying our prisons...send them back to the countries from which they came -- let them support their own criminals. Another example; ILLEGALS who come into our hospitals or doctors offices seeking care and who cannot produce valid U.S. identification can be deported. ILLEGALS trying to collect disability, social security, register to vote, open a bank account, apply for a driver's license, enroll their kids in school, etc. without valid U.S. identification can be deported...there are ways to identify illegals and deport. Jobs could be created by training and appointing new "deputies" to identify and deport.   It may not be "politically correct", but it can be done.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sinkspur

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 03:42:53 am »
Really?? No sentiment for the FACT that ILLEGALS ARE CRIMINALS??  Since When?  And why wouldn't Trump's idea of deportation work? It is not without possibility.  To say that it is impossible to secure our borders and to deport illegals is a cop out. For an example;  the easiest "group" to deport are those ILLEGALS occupying our prisons...send them back to the countries from which they came -- let them support their own criminals. Another example; ILLEGALS who come into our hospitals or doctors offices seeking care and who cannot produce valid U.S. identification can be deported. ILLEGALS trying to collect disability, social security, register to vote, open a bank account, apply for a driver's license, enroll their kids in school, etc. without valid U.S. identification can be deported...there are ways to identify illegals and deport. Jobs could be created by training and appointing new "deputies" to identify and deport.   It may not be "politically correct", but it can be done.

It can't be done and it won't be done.  You may as well chalk this up as more bullshit from Trump. 

NOBODY IS GOING TO ROUND UP ILLEGALS, PUT THEM ON BUSSES AND DRIVE THEM OUT OF THE COUNTRY!!!

You need to really understand that.
Roy Moore's "spiritual warfare" is driving past a junior high without stopping.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 05:27:43 am »
We could require the illegals to wear a patch with a sombrero, on their clothing.

Kids could report their parents to authorities. Neighbors could do likewise.

This should be at the top of the GOP platform, as a direct refutation of the autopsy performed after losing the Presidential popular vote for the 5th time in 6 elections.

That finding was to have greater appeal to minorities like Hispanics, which are growing rapidly as a percent of the electorate.

Then along comes The Donald, with his nativist appeal to a narrow but loud faction, and forget the logic or math of the autopsy findings. The GOP led by their conservative faction, will merely win an increasing percent of white votes. That would be win an increasing percent, of the shrinking fraction of the whole.

How to do that? Is it to be as nativist as possible?
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Offline Scottftlc

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 05:38:27 am »
We could require the illegals to wear a patch with a sombrero, on their clothing.

Kids could report their parents to authorities. Neighbors could do likewise.

This should be at the top of the GOP platform, as a direct refutation of the autopsy performed after losing the Presidential popular vote for the 5th time in 6 elections.

That finding was to have greater appeal to minorities like Hispanics, which are growing rapidly as a percent of the electorate.



Then along comes The Donald, with his nativist appeal to a narrow but loud faction, and forget the logic or math of the autopsy findings. The GOP led by their conservative faction, will merely win an increasing percent of white votes. That would be win an increasing percent, of the shrinking fraction of the whole.

How to do that? Is it to be as nativist as possible?

Or we could just declare that everyone on Earth is an American, and wherever you come from, if you can get here you can just stay here forever and be supported by the taxpayers and get full government services and permanent status.  Come one come all, if we have the population of one billion, so what? We will all be one big happy multi-cultural family.
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2015, 10:31:33 am »
Or we could just declare that everyone on Earth is an American, and wherever you come from, if you can get here you can just stay here forever and be supported by the taxpayers and get full government services and permanent status.  Come one come all, if we have the population of one billion, so what? We will all be one big happy multi-cultural family.

An uncomplicated immigration policy in one sentence: If you can walk across the border, you're a citizen.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2015, 11:18:36 am »

Then along comes The Donald, with his nativist appeal to a narrow but loud faction,

If Trump is leading in all national polls and is at least 2nd in smaller polls, I don't see how you arrive at your "narrow but loud faction" statement.
Do you have statistics or info on this or is this just your view?

Offline kevindavis007

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2015, 11:25:14 am »
Really?? No sentiment for the FACT that ILLEGALS ARE CRIMINALS??  Since When?  And why wouldn't Trump's idea of deportation work? It is not without possibility.  To say that it is impossible to secure our borders and to deport illegals is a cop out. For an example;  the easiest "group" to deport are those ILLEGALS occupying our prisons...send them back to the countries from which they came -- let them support their own criminals. Another example; ILLEGALS who come into our hospitals or doctors offices seeking care and who cannot produce valid U.S. identification can be deported. ILLEGALS trying to collect disability, social security, register to vote, open a bank account, apply for a driver's license, enroll their kids in school, etc. without valid U.S. identification can be deported...there are ways to identify illegals and deport. Jobs could be created by training and appointing new "deputies" to identify and deport.   It may not be "politically correct", but it can be done.

So you want Donald to bypass Congress and the courts to round up every illegal immigrants correct?
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Offline EdinVA

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2015, 11:48:38 am »
So you want Donald to bypass Congress and the courts to round up every illegal immigrants correct?

Bypass Congress?  It is already illegal to be here without "permission" and it is already "required" to deport those that are here illegally.
Not abiding by the law, like not deporting and not securing the border, is bypassing congress.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2015, 12:31:02 pm »
Bypass Congress?  It is already illegal to be here without "permission" and it is already "required" to deport those that are here illegally.
Not abiding by the law, like not deporting and not securing the border, is bypassing congress.

Boing!

Offline massadvj

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2015, 12:43:42 pm »
It should not be the job of the US government to "protect" American workers, or to regulate the US labor market.  A man's labor is his property and under natural law property rights are inalienable.  They do not confer only to Americans.  Based on the concept of natural law, if a Mexican or anyone else wants to come here and negotiate his labor, he has the right to do it, regardless of what the law says.  In fact, if the law prevents him from doing so, the worker who disobeys it has the higher moral authority.  This does not mean he should be exempt from punishment by a state that has unjustly enacted laws that violate his personal property rights.  But we should recognize that such individuals have not sinned against God, only the US government, which thinks it is God.

So long as a person does not present a security threat, and so long as he does not suck from the government teat, we should have no problem with him seeking employment in the USA.  The idea of inalienability and "life, liberty, property" is that these rights confer to everyone, not just citizens.  The test of the illegal immigration issue to patriots is whether we truly believe in the theory of government that is laid out in the Declaration of independence and Constitution, or do we just support natural law when it suits our own needs, and support tyranny when it doesn't?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 12:53:07 pm by massadvj »

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2015, 01:02:48 pm »
It should not be the job of the US government to "protect" American workers, or to regulate the US labor market.  A man's labor is his property and under natural law property rights are inalienable.  They do not confer only to Americans.  Based on the concept of natural law, if a Mexican or anyone else wants to come here and negotiate his labor, he has the right to do it, regardless of what the law says.  In fact, if the law prevents him from doing so, the worker who disobeys it has the higher moral authority.  This does not mean he should be exempt from punishment by a state that has unjustly enacted laws that violate his personal property rights.  But we should recognize that such individuals have not sinned against God, only the US government, which thinks it is God.

So long as a person does not present a security threat, and so long as he does not suck from the government teat, we should have no problem with him seeking employment in the USA.  The idea of inalienability and "life, liberty, property" is that these rights confer to everyone, not just citizens.  The test of the illegal immigration issue to patriots is whether we truly believe in the theory of government that is laid out in the Declaration of independence and Constitution, or do we just support natural law when it suits our own needs, and support tyranny when it doesn't.


"It should not be the job of the US government to "protect" American workers..." Then the converse should also be true That the job of the US Government is not to "punish" American workers by selective law enforcement (i.e. illegals not having to pay for obamacare because they are paid under the table) over taxation to pay for illegals (i.e. ESL, duplicate government documents, translators) and allow "foreigners" to bring diseases into the country (i.e. TB, Ebola). 

The governments should not be exporting American capability, tax free, then using American tax dollars to repurchase products derived from those American developed capabilities from foreign countries while demeaning the American workforce and corporations.


The borders of any country has been bought and paid for with the blood of its citizens and those citizens hire governments to protect their common interests.

Offline aligncare

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2015, 01:13:16 pm »

"It should not be the job of the US government to "protect" American workers..." Then the converse should also be true That the job of the US Government is not to "punish" American workers by selective law enforcement (i.e. illegals not having to pay for obamacare because they are paid under the table) over taxation to pay for illegals (i.e. ESL, duplicate government documents, translators) and allow "foreigners" to bring diseases into the country (i.e. TB, Ebola). 

The governments should not be exporting American capability, tax free, then using American tax dollars to repurchase products derived from those American developed capabilities from foreign countries while demeaning the American workforce and corporations.


The borders of any country has been bought and paid for with the blood of its citizens and those citizens hire governments to protect their common interests.

Double Boing!!

Offline massadvj

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Re: Ben Carson: Give Illegals 6 Month To Regiser As Guest Workers
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2015, 01:28:28 pm »

"It should not be the job of the US government to "protect" American workers..." Then the converse should also be true That the job of the US Government is not to "punish" American workers by selective law enforcement (i.e. illegals not having to pay for obamacare because they are paid under the table) over taxation to pay for illegals (i.e. ESL, duplicate government documents, translators) and allow "foreigners" to bring diseases into the country (i.e. TB, Ebola). 

The governments should not be exporting American capability, tax free, then using American tax dollars to repurchase products derived from those American developed capabilities from foreign countries while demeaning the American workforce and corporations.


The borders of any country has been bought and paid for with the blood of its citizens and those citizens hire governments to protect their common interests.

As to the first part of your post, I would say that BOTH our labor protection laws and Obamacare are tyrannical in nature, and both should be opposed.  Ditto laws that require ESL and translators, and even laws that require local communities to educate the children of illegals.

I am not quite sure what you mean by governments exporting American capability, but in principle I would agree that national governments should do absolutely nothing except protect the natural rights of their citizens. 

That also applies to your last comment, which could easily apply to Nazi Germany or any other tyrannical state.  The point of Locke, Jefferson, Rand, Friedman and even Burke and Kirk is that civilization should be organized under certain principles that originate with God, not from men with guns who bully their way into creating a nation state.  What separates Americans from the revolutionaries that came before us is our recognition of three fundamental human rights: life, liberty, property.

This is not something I only believe when it is convenient to me.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 01:31:24 pm by massadvj »